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  1. #41  
    I've got a Photon 4G on Sprint and completely expect ICS to land in the next few months. I mean, hell, Google all but owns Motorola Mobility now, and Motorola's been on the ball with updates lately.

    But yeah, my Touchpad can't wait, either.
  2. #42  
    Palm has an outstanding patent application--not a patent itself--for the card metaphor filed in 2009, but considering one of the people who filed it is Mathias Duarte himself, I wouldn't expect much to come of any litigation attempts.

    And touch-to-share? It's 1) NFC-based with Google Beam, and 2) data transfer using communication protocols is pretty broad and abstract. Good luck enforcing that one, if it's even been filed. Prior art all over the place.
  3. #43  
    <multiple threads merged>
  4. #44  
    Well.. It's hp's and palms fault for letting so much great talent walk out the door, they had a great team going before. Im just happy the webos dream can live on somewhere. Can't wait to get ICS on my touchpad, and to know that Matias is the one that designed it and will keep on improving it makes it that much better
    IcerC and freakrie like this.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by wesleymarin View Post
    Well.. It's hp's and palms fault for letting so much great talent walk out the door, they had a great team going before
    Well, it's like he says in the interview at ThisIsMyNext:

    I thought ‘okay you know what, I’ve tried to win so many times before,’ and it’s been shown that it doesn’t matter how great a product you have and how revolutionary the product is… distribution and marketshare are the things that matter.” Matias smiles, “Now I’m going the other way around.”
    He saw his 'baby' flop for a year. Can you blame him for wanting to try another way?
    zefyx likes this.
  6. #46  
    Looking at it from another perspective, in hindsight from tonight's reveal it makes absolute perfect sense now why HTC dropped its consideration of webOS after definitely having seen ICS. (And Samsung, for that matter.)

    They simply knew that it wouldn't be able to compete with what ICS was bringing to the table--and the ironic lack of differentiation. To exceed the new baselines set by ICS and iOS5, it would take either manufacturer a considerable amount of resources (money and manpower), the development of hardware lines, and targeted acquisitions to match either platform's robust media/productivity ecosystem and features.

    Samsung has to be feeling like their own Bada's going to end up a low-end smartphone OS at the very most at this point.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by vanadium View Post
    Palm has an outstanding patent application--not a patent itself--for the card metaphor filed in 2009, but considering one of the people who filed it is Mathias Duarte himself, I wouldn't expect much to come of any litigation attempts.

    And touch-to-share? It's 1) NFC-based with Google Beam, and 2) data transfer using communication protocols is pretty broad and abstract. Good luck enforcing that one, if it's even been filed. Prior art all over the place.
    palm will own the patent, not Duarte. He will have no rights in it as the inventor. If it is granted . . .

    I am thinking along the lines of the apple Samsung complaint non-patent elements . . . You are copying our look . . . The just type bar, swipe to close' etc.
  8. #48  
    Unless there are patents granted for each and every one (and especially placement of functional UI elements, which is ludicrous), good luck with that.
  9. #49  
    This just might make me finally push towards moving my household to Android. I never thought I would see the day. Ice Cream Sandwich seems to be everything that webOS has, which I held so dearly to my heart. What a mixed bag of technological emotion.
  10.    #50  
    The timeframe in which Matias left Palm makes the quote jhoff80 posted even more interesting. He saw the writing on the wall for webOS early on, even after HP acquired Palm. You gotta respect someone with enough vision and perspective to abandon the ship he built even after being acquired by the largest PC manufacturer in the world.
  11. #51  
    I think this version of android looks very nice. Much better then i expected and many of the other screens i'd seen. Its come a long way. I'm sure it will continue to dominate.

    Quote Originally Posted by vanadium View Post
    Unless there are patents granted for each and every one (and especially placement of functional UI elements, which is ludicrous), good luck with that.
    Patent law is not exactly my area but there is the general problem with IP law that you can't protect an idea merely the tangible expression of an idea. Regardless in that context i've yet to understand how many of these user interface focused patents can stand. Like you can copyright the exact code to an extent but if you can't prevent user interface elements like windows from going on PCs as well as macs. I mean the actual idea of a square window i don't see why the idea of minimizing a window and switching could be protectable. I mean take windows on a desktop. you switch apps by hitting alt tab and in minimizes and then you can switch apps. That's an old idea. basically on webos, android now, ios, i think qnx you hit a button, the window minimizes and you can scroll. i've always been perplexed as to how that method would be protectable merely cause it's on a phone os. Seems akin to microsoft preventing anyone from having an "x" icon to close a window. or trying to say you have a patent on the idea of tabs in a browser or like a patent on the idea of a button in the taskbar that takes you straight to the desktop. Or what about the idea of like a launcher at the bottom of a phone. They all seem like user interface ideas. Now the unique look i can see protection like the unique design of an icon. But the element of a launcher strikes me as no different and if you can't patent those ideas (hell maybe they have and i don't know ) it seems strange that you can patent the other things. They still give out way to many of these vague patents. I would really love to see one of these user interface patents get litigated and appealed just to get some real discussion. I'd love to see the Supreme Court give their thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by vanadium View Post
    Looking at it from another perspective, in hindsight from tonight's reveal it makes absolute perfect sense now why HTC dropped its consideration of webOS after definitely having seen ICS. (And Samsung, for that matter.)
    the more i've thought about it in the last few days the more i've wondered if HP actually reached a similar conclusion. Possibly thinking, why not just do what we do in PCs, piggy back off someone else's popular O.S. I kinda wonder if they didn't say, we'll just release android or Windows 8 tablets and maybe phones an not have to fund the expensive build out of app developers, and fund lots of o.s. development. Basically just let google do all that and they just make hardware. who knows?
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 10/19/2011 at 01:41 AM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    The timeframe in which Matias left Palm makes the quote jhoff80 posted even more interesting. He saw the writing on the wall for webOS early on, even after HP acquired Palm. You gotta respect someone with enough vision and perspective to abandon the ship he built even after being acquired by the largest PC manufacturer in the world.
    Of course, being acquired by the largest PC manufacturer in the world might also be why he saw the writing on the wall, something we'll never know without actually having been in the building to see what the situation was internally after that. Maybe there were signs within that he'd have to cave in some ways to make HP happy.

    I mean, for example, with how much he complains about buttons instead of gestures in that interview, the idea of putting webOS on a device without a gesture area, could that really have gone over well? I mean, it's not based on anything other than wild conjecture but I still firmly believe that the Touchpad design was for an Android device that HP wanted to ship and the Palm guys were forced to retrofit webOS to it, which is why back buttons had to be added everywhere (and some were even missing at launch) and instead of building hardware to suit the OS, they had to customize the OS to fit existing hardware designs. Duarte doesn't seem like the kind of guy to stand for that... both from this interview, and from things I've heard about him being sort of difficult to work with because he's a bit controlling.
  13. #53  
    It's pretty clear from the "Android on Touchpad in the Wild" controversy that HP was evaluating Android prior to its purchase of webOS and the Touchpad hardware--at the very least, an early revision of it--was built around the platform. Once they bought webOS, they retrofitted it to accommodate the hardware rather than the other way around. (Goodbye, gestures!) It's just my own educated guess, although we appear to agree.

    Qualcomm wouldn't consistently point fingers at HP as being the source just for the hell of it. And keep in mind HP's responses to the repeated attempts to contact their Open Source administrator on the issue. He deflects the issue of HP being the source (which would be embarrassing for them) by saying it's unauthorized and declares a wish to investigate the owners(s) and supply chain back to the source rather than an outright denial they ever had anything to do with it.

    Reading between the lines on that particular situation especially says a lot about HP's internal struggles to be relevant in a rapidly changing marketplace. It also says a lot about how unprepared they were as a corporate culture to truly "double down" and commit themselves to being players. Throwing down 1.2B on a gambit cost quite a bit of dignity in the end after it was revealed they really didn't care to truly innovate nor dedicate themselves to their own initiative. Unfortunately, it also ensnared a great deal of wonderful people from Palm in the crossfire.
    Last edited by vanadium; 10/19/2011 at 02:17 AM.
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    #54  
    I just hope the build quality has greatly improved on the new Nexus. The One was fantastic, but the S I had from Samsung was woeful. I sold it for a song because 3 pins fell out of the sim tray.....and both Vodafone and Samsung were not interested in the repair (and there were no trays on ebay).
  15. #55  
    Yea, the main issue I've always had with Android was the UI. Even with all of the Android features and app catalog, I just couldn't deal with the UI once I'd used webOS. Maybe by the time my Pre- quits, Google will have gotten the Android UI palatable for me.
    Last edited by purplepansy; 10/19/2011 at 02:35 AM. Reason: Correct a typo
  16. cgk
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by vanadium View Post
    Palm has an outstanding patent application--not a patent itself--for the card metaphor filed in 2009, but considering one of the people who filed it is Mathias Duarte himself, I wouldn't expect much to come of any litigation attempts.

    And touch-to-share? It's 1) NFC-based with Google Beam, and 2) data transfer using communication protocols is pretty broad and abstract. Good luck enforcing that one, if it's even been filed. Prior art all over the place.
    plus all of those sorts of NFC applications have been planned and talked about for four or five years? Hell even when it launched people knew that TTS was a technological deadend when stacked against the wider adoption on NFC.
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    #57  
    I don't know if this have been discussed, but the new Android OS seems to have copied our beloved webOS multitasking system.
    Check this out:


    Around 0.35 you can see the card system.
  18. #58  
    is it a surprise that there are many similarities, when the same engineer who helped design webOS, now works on Android? Eg. Duarte.

    tbh, I haven't seen the video yet, just going on what I've heard.

    One could (and has) argued webOS copied an older Apple OS, can't remember which one off the top of my head.

    What is that saying.....emulation is the highest form of flattery?
    Last edited by sledge007; 10/19/2011 at 03:32 AM.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2˘ about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  19. #59  
    If webOS isn't gonna survive, I'm okay with other OS's being better to use. That's the way things go sometimes.
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by FenrirWolf View Post
    If webOS isn't gonna survive, I'm okay with other OS's being better to use. That's the way things go sometimes.
    Yes, I was thinking just that. Sooner or later we're gonna need to move to another OS. Maybe the choice will be easier if some OS has some of the webOS things we like.
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