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  1.    #1  
    Hi all,

    FYI. Please use the supplied link to read the rest of this article.

    Take care,

    Jay

    RIM teeters on the edge of obsolescence
    by Olaf de Senerpont Domis,JUNE 1, 2011, 8:12 AM

    RIM teeters on the edge of obsolescence (Sense of the Markets - The Deal Pipeline)

    It looks like another leader is fading toward irrelevancy in the hyperactive smartphone market.

    Shares of Blackberry maker Research In Motion Ltd. (NASDAQ:RIMM) slid 1.72% as the company continued to take flak from Wall Street.

    The latest blow came Tuesday as Rodman & Renshaw (NASDAQ:RODM) analyst Ashok Kumar dropped coverage of RIM altogether, citing a lack of innovation and differentiated products in the face of stiff competition from Apple Inc.'s iPhone and devices based on Google Inc.'s Android mobile operating system.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2. KAPS's Avatar
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    #2  
    RIM is growing in India and China. But even in India it is the stupid teen crowd, who think BBM is cool. Within a year or so, Indian people will understand how BBM is waste of money and they will move to some other cool device.
    RIM is struggling in US and only matter of time it will start struggling in India and when it start struggling in the emerging market it is totally finished.
    Nokia was the undisputed leader in India but now many people in India are buying android device, which are pretty cheap and give more functionality for the nearly the same cost as nokia.
  3. samab's Avatar
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    #3  
    Stupid is the correct word. Several years ago, China was Nokia's largest N-series 3G phone selling country --- even though China didn't have a 3G network at the time.

    China Loves Nokia's N-series Phones - Softpedia

    That's how the third world works. They have no use for a smartphone but they buy them anyway because all their friends said it's the cool thing to do. From 2000 to 2008 (i.e. before Android was launched) --- China has the most number of linux smartphones in the world. You think that they have uses for an Android phone, no --- they don't.

    It's a waste of money for them, period. Doesn't matter what technology.
  4. KAPS's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Stupid is the correct word. Several years ago, China was Nokia's largest N-series 3G phone selling country --- even though China didn't have a 3G network at the time.

    China Loves Nokia's N-series Phones - Softpedia

    That's how the third world works. They have no use for a smartphone but they buy them anyway because all their friends said it's the cool thing to do. From 2000 to 2008 (i.e. before Android was launched) --- China has the most number of linux smartphones in the world. You think that they have uses for an Android phone, no --- they don't.

    It's a waste of money for them, period. Doesn't matter what technology.
    Samab stop using the word 3rd world it is very derogatory. China and India are the fastest growing economy in the world. China is the 2nd largest economy in the world.
    Just because RIM is a Canadian company doesn't make it a great company.
    Btw China and India have more engineer than US so don't call people there stupid. People here just want the latest things just like everywhere else in the world so even though the network is not ready they will buy the latest phone. Having no 3G affect only 10% capabilities of phone so the other 90% is still usable.
    Btw People here are not dumb and they are not stupid, they can use smartphone as easily as people in US or Canada. So next time think(which you can't do)before writing your stupid comment.
    RIM is struggling because they can't innovate and only spend 7% of revenue in R&D. And being a RIM ****** doesn't mean you can insult other people.
  5. KAPS's Avatar
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    #5  
    Btw my stupid comment was more to the teen mentality of having the phone, which everyone on the campus have not because they need it and this mentality is same all over the world.
    That in lame man term is called Peer Pressure. Blackberry is the cool thing right now for college kid it is a phase, which will pass by just like other phases during college life.
  6. samab's Avatar
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    #6  
    It is what it is. China has the most linux smartphones in the world. Motorola started selling them in China in 2003.

    Motorola Launches Linux-Based Phone | PCWorld

    All the n-series smartphones are basically sold as high-end feature phones.

    Your so-called peer pressure also cut both ways --- it can mean that there is nothing wrong with RIM technologically. Just because bloggers hyped it's DOA this and DOA that --- doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the technology.

    Of all the friends that I have --- I have found that I am the only person to access web emails via Microsoft Outlook. They all just use the browser to get their web email. Yet they all have lost their brains and accepted the DOA theory because the Playbook doesn't have native email program.
    Last edited by samab; 06/02/2011 at 02:26 PM.
  7. #7  
    You know...

    I get the feeling that Wall Street is trying to push RIM into the gutter - why? I don't know.

    RIM certainly has screwed their future - should have bought PALM last year, and now regrets is, secretly, I believe, but, the Playbook is a great device, hardware wise, and will mature pretty quickly - their new OS should be developing soon, as well - and they are still making money - cahs flow positive.

    Prognosticating that RIM will die by analysts is almost like the "cart pulling the horse" instead of the more logical inverse - they think it MIGHT happen, so they say it, and the public sees the statements, and then thinks they are on a sinking ship, and what do they do?

    Abaondon ship (switch carriers, stockholders sell stock in panic), making the speculation actually become a reality.

    This "publically traded corporation" thing really has its downside - very, very sad, really.

    Im not, at all, a RIM fan or patron, but, there's way more here than what meets the eye...

    Just sayin....
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8. samab's Avatar
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    #8  
    RIM buying Palm would be the end of WebOS --- because they would have just bought it for the patents.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    RIM buying Palm would be the end of WebOS --- because they would have just bought it for the patents.
    Samab;

    That's rhetorical to the topic at hand - buying Palm last year would have been the most prudent effort to make to get themselves back into the competition in the fastest time frame.

    Even with HP's slow progress, they are scheduled for some terrific devices this year and already put out the Pre 2 and the Veer both of those could have been RIM products, instead, and with their marketting and customer following, both of those devices could have had signfiicant successes, based on WebOS alone.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  10. KAPS's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    You know...

    I get the feeling that Wall Street is trying to push RIM into the gutter - why? I don't know.

    RIM certainly has screwed their future - should have bought PALM last year, and now regrets is, secretly, I believe, but, the Playbook is a great device, hardware wise, and will mature pretty quickly - their new OS should be developing soon, as well - and they are still making money - cahs flow positive.

    Prognosticating that RIM will die by analysts is almost like the "cart pulling the horse" instead of the more logical inverse - they think it MIGHT happen, so they say it, and the public sees the statements, and then thinks they are on a sinking ship, and what do they do?

    Abaondon ship (switch carriers, stockholders sell stock in panic), making the speculation actually become a reality.

    This "publically traded corporation" thing really has its downside - very, very sad, really.

    Im not, at all, a RIM fan or patron, but, there's way more here than what meets the eye...

    Just sayin....
    All the investors are vary of RIM because of Nokia. They feel that RIM will be the next nokia.
    And I think RIM future is as bleak as Nokia's.
  11. samab's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Samab;

    That's rhetorical to the topic at hand - buying Palm last year would have been the most prudent effort to make to get themselves back into the competition in the fastest time frame.

    Even with HP's slow progress, they are scheduled for some terrific devices this year and already put out the Pre 2 and the Veer both of those could have been RIM products, instead, and with their marketting and customer following, both of those devices could have had signfiicant successes, based on WebOS alone.

    No, they wouldn't have produced any devices that fast because RIM would have to port and certify all their enterprise email system with the government.

    RIM bought one of the most established RTOS team and one of the best mobile UI team in the world --- can't really fault them for those acquisition decisions. RIM bought engineers and all the best Palm engineers had already left the company (and joined Google).
  12. #12  
    I am disappointed in RIM's lack of innovation and insight. The same phones released year after year with incremental spec bumps, and waiting too long to make a significant change. While others have moved far ahead. This is what killed Palm and Nokia, and I agree RIM will be next if they don't shape up.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I am disappointed in RIM's lack of innovation and insight. The same phones released year after year with incremental spec bumps, and waiting too long to make a significant change. While others have moved far ahead. This is what killed Palm and Nokia, and I agree RIM will be next if they don't shape up.
    Hi Diva,

    I agree with you, however not that many firms wake and smell the coffee soon enough to turn the firm around. They also have the HUGE problem of Carl Icahn snooping around...I know Carl...trust me they don't call him Crazy Carl for nothing.....he's made a great deal of money in buying distressed firms & breaking them up and selling their assets for far more than the firm is whole.

    As soon as he got his hooks into TWA he sold all the planes and leased them back, he hacked up the routes and sold a bunch of them as well....

    He underfunded the Pension plan and got his hands on that money as well. As one of my friends who was an exec at TWA said, Carl took a fortune out of TWA by selling off all the aircraft, then the pension plan and then sold the carcass for a third fortune. In the end he many a yacht full of money and TWA was sold off to AA for it's overseas rights. (It was the only U.S. Flagged carrier to get approval to fly from the USA to Israel and Egypt, (including from Israel to Egypt and back), which is the main reason AA wanted what was left of TWA).

    All may be fair in M & A except for the workers and the public!

    If Carl gets his hands on RIM it will be horrendous for the average BB user.

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  14. #14  
    It would be better for them to get bought out or merge by/with a manufacturer who can crank out better hardware. I'd like to see QNX(I think it's called) on more devices. Their new OS BB7 should have been released last year on the Torch. And the Torch should have released the same year as the Pre. RIM is always steps behind lately.

    The PlayBook is a good step(get the PIM apps out please) but they need to fix their phone division even more importantly.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. samab's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    They also have the HUGE problem of Carl Icahn snooping around...
    Icahn is not snooping around --- that was just some reporter floating names around.
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAPS View Post
    Samab stop using the word 3rd world it is very derogatory. China and India are the fastest growing economy in the world. China is the 2nd largest economy in the world.
    Just because RIM is a Canadian company doesn't make it a great company.
    Btw China and India have more engineer than US so don't call people there stupid. People here just want the latest things just like everywhere else in the world so even though the network is not ready they will buy the latest phone. Having no 3G affect only 10% capabilities of phone so the other 90% is still usable.
    Btw People here are not dumb and they are not stupid, they can use smartphone as easily as people in US or Canada. So next time think(which you can't do)before writing your stupid comment.
    RIM is struggling because they can't innovate and only spend 7% of revenue in R&D. And being a RIM ****** doesn't mean you can insult other people.
    whats insulting is someone blind to the facts. china and india and most other countries in the world are 3rd world. they do not have the education levels like countries such as the US and UK. stop lying to yourself and accept the turth. if u dont like the way things are then use your energy to change things not to accept it....
    Want to help design and write an app?
    follow me at Twiiter @ijip
    THANKS~!!
  17. samab's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    It would be better for them to get bought out or merge by/with a manufacturer who can crank out better hardware. I'd like to see QNX(I think it's called) on more devices. Their new OS BB7 should have been released last year on the Torch. And the Torch should have released the same year as the Pre. RIM is always steps behind lately.

    The PlayBook is a good step(get the PIM apps out please) but they need to fix their phone division even more importantly.
    Not a problem anymore --- they didn't skimp on the hardware for the Playbook. The OMAP4 is a lot better (and more expensive) than the Tegra 2 chip.
  18. KAPS's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by ijip View Post
    whats insulting is someone blind to the facts. china and india and most other countries in the world are 3rd world. they do not have the education levels like countries such as the US and UK. stop lying to yourself and accept the turth. if u dont like the way things are then use your energy to change things not to accept it....
    I don't want a flame war here but if the education level of India and china were not good then the number of Engineer studying or working would had been non existent.
    India and China might not be developed nation but they certainly are not third world countries.
    Around 12% scientist and 38% doctors are of Indian origin in US and even in NASA around 30% staff is Indian origin.
    I know that India doesn't provide opportunity to further enhance your career, which US provides so people come to US.
    If this is called third world then I don't know what is called first world.
  19. KAPS's Avatar
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    #19  
    Coming to back to topic RIM is really struggling right now. It's current share price around $40, which is the lowest price in 2 years.
    If it goes to $35 then it might be a good opportunity for a company like Cisco to buy RIM.
    I am quite sure now Microsoft are not interested in buying RIM as they have already brought Skype and Canadian government will certainly will not allow Microsoft to control RIM.
    RIM is in this position because they did not spend money on R&D while competitors were trying to innovate and surpass them.
    Last edited by KAPS; 06/03/2011 at 02:24 AM.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Icahn is not snooping around --- that was just some reporter floating names around.
    Hi,

    I'm glad to hear it, my own experiences with him have not been pleasant, nor has one of my very dear friends from college. Sadly, like the cockroach, you can't get rid of the guy!

    Take care, Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
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