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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by sandlizard View Post
    Please don't include HP in your comment about not delivering when comparing to Apple, you have no idea what HP is going to deliver out of the gate. And there were many thing Apple did not have in their first iPad. Don't forget that, and they still do not support flash. They have had many software upgrades, and the iPad2 was a fix of the things they got wrong in the first release. So let's not put Apple up on a big pedestal, and start acting like they are the only one who can build a first rate tablet. The iPad cameras are low quality, VGA on the front, so it's far from perfect.

    HP's other products are front line, some of the very best in the tech industry. I suspect that the Touch Pad is going to be in that same category. Let's not judge what they do and don't release until we see the product.
    Your're right let's not put Apple, or HP for that matter on pedestal, it serves no purpose for the end user. But in that light, don't post nonsense. The iPad 2 was not a fix of things from the iPad 1. It was the next step in its evolution. It follows the same type of path Apple uses for their other products. The iPad 1 generally delivered on the features promised.

    This is what you tried to make a counterpoint to: Originally Posted by Mordbane
    I'm still in shock by that manufacturers are selling tablet hardware like a buggy piece of software that will give you what you paid for after a couple "patches". Apple delivers on what it promises. They may not promise as much as Google, RIM, or HP, but they don't sell you a product and tell you to hang tight while we work on getting you what you paid for.
    Coming in last to the game, HP's launch of the TP has to be flawless. At least as far as critics are concerned, superior OS doesn't matter, more features don't matter, price doesn't matter, its all about delivering a polished and refined product. Which appears like only Apple can deliver out the gate."


    None of you counter points touch on this. The poster even said that Apple may not promise as much, so your VGA camera point is moot. The poster is right, with the recent missteps of a couple of recently released tablets, it would serve no good purpose for HP to follow in those same footsteps.
    Quote Originally Posted by sandlizard View Post
    So let's not put Apple up on a big pedestal, and start acting like they are the only one who can build a first rate tablet
    The poster does not have to act, the lines of people outside Apple stores more than a month since iPad 2 release speaks for itself. The quality is there, VGA camera or no. People don't line up to plop down 500 or more bucks for junk.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 04/24/2011 at 11:52 AM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Your're right let's not put Apple, or HP for that matter on pedestal, it serves no purpose for the end user. But in that light, don't post nonsense. The iPad 2 was not a fix of things from the iPad 1. It was the next step in its evolution. It follows the same type of path Apple uses for their other products. The iPad 1 generally delivered on the features promised.

    This is what you tried to make a counterpoint to: Originally Posted by Mordbane
    I'm still in shock by that manufacturers are selling tablet hardware like a buggy piece of software that will give you what you paid for after a couple "patches". Apple delivers on what it promises. They may not promise as much as Google, RIM, or HP, but they don't sell you a product and tell you to hang tight while we work on getting you what you paid for.
    Coming in last to the game, HP's launch of the TP has to be flawless. At least as far as critics are concerned, superior OS doesn't matter, more features don't matter, price doesn't matter, its all about delivering a polished and refined product. Which appears like only Apple can deliver out the gate."


    None of you counter points touch on this. The poster even said that Apple may not promise as much, so your VGA camera point is moot. The poster is right, with the recent missteps of a couple of recently released tablets, it would serve no good purpose for HP to follow in those same footsteps.

    The poster does not have to act, the lines of people outside Apple stores more than a month since iPad 2 release speaks for itself. The quality is there, VGA camera or no. People don't line up to plop down 500 or more bucks for junk.
    You're right, Apple never promises anything...they just tell you that you don't need it until they say so. Versus, the "this is exactly what you want, but we are not committing anti-trust behavior and near exploitation in foreign nations so we can deliver ahead of anything else."

    Yep, that about says it.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    You're right, Apple never promises anything...they just tell you that you don't need it until they say so. Versus, the "this is exactly what you want, but we are not committing anti-trust behavior and near exploitation in foreign nations so we can deliver ahead of anything else."

    Yep, that about says it.
    It seems to work. It may be why their profits are greater than HP + Dell combined. If you sit on your laurels, you tend to get trumped.

    Edit: I will say that HP will most likely have a better Touchpad launch than Playbook. I don't they can do any worse.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 04/24/2011 at 01:17 PM.
  4. #44  
    Hi all,

    I'm posting this as an interesting outlook on the Playbook. However, RIM has a major problem with the design & implemtation of the Play Book. I'm still of the opinion that you need to be a BB customer to be able to realize the potential of the Pad.

    The link os for the entire article.

    take care,

    Jay

    Blackberry PlayBook: Rough Roads Ahead For RIM
    Ryan Vetter, liquidpubs, Apr. 27, 2011, 5:41 AM

    Blackberry PlayBook: Rough Roads Ahead For RIM

    Now that Research in Motion’s (RIM) Blackberry PlayBook, their one and only flagship tablet computer, has been on the market for a solid week, the reviews are in. The consensus is that it's a bit of a nonstarter.

    Here are some representative comments about the PlayBook from reviewers:

    "[It's] Unfinished, unusable" [Infoworld]

    "[It] Lacks All the Right Moves" [Wired]

    "RIM’s first tablet is half-baked in its current state" [SlashGear]
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  5. samab's Avatar
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    #45  
    There is no interesting outlook from that article.

    The Playbook is out for more than a week --- and not even Shaw Wu himself (who started all the car battery talk a few months ago) questioned about Playbook's battery life anymore.

    QNX is a commercial off-the-shelf OS --- which by definition means that it is meant to be a easily replaceable part. The OS is easily replaceable. Whatever is in the middle is easily replaceable. Not really that hard to make an air vm, java vm and a dalvik vm to work on top of QNX --- because whatever underneath is a well-known certified base.

    He listed potentially getting sued by HP to be big --- come on --- potentially getting sued by Oracle on the Dalvik vm is a lot more likely (and more serious).
  6. samab's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAPS View Post
    <<edited by staff >>
    I didn't even say a single bad thing on webos with respect to the article --- like how the writer dismissed the Playbook because of the lack of apps, and yet no mention that the TouchPad will likely have even less apps than the Playbook.

    The Playbook has been out for over a week now --- aside from Mossberg, no one else talked about bad battery life. Even Shaw Wu --- the guy who started all this talk about QNX needing a car battery, stop talking about weak battery life after the Playbook's actual launch. That really shows how that "good" the article really is.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 04/28/2011 at 11:50 AM.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    like how the writer dismissed the Playbook because of the lack of apps, and yet no mention that the TouchPad will likely have even less apps than the Playbook.
    Hi all,

    Unless I'm wrong didn't Leo & Ruby stress the fact that there would be a great deal of native apps on the TouchPad, b/c webOS app levels are lower than where we want them to be?

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  8. #48  
    I do also fear that the TouchPad will have a seriously low amount of apps. In addition to that it's gonna be very tough to get a lot of developer support for it. At this very moment the WebOS app market is pretty much dead. 2 months ago I pushed large updates to my apps and then realized they were only for sale in the US so I turned on all the other countries. I expected a pretty nice boost but got no more than a handful of sales. Not nearly enough to justify the work I put in those updates.

    I hate to say it because I LOVE WebOS, it's still my favorite mobile OS but right now it's dead as a doornail. HP is going to need to work REALLY hard to revive it and (re)gain developer support.
    My shiny new TouchPad apps: Scientific RPN Calculator HD - Screamager HD
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    I do also fear that the TouchPad will have a seriously low amount of apps. In addition to that it's gonna be very tough to get a lot of developer support for it. At this very moment the WebOS app market is pretty much dead. 2 months ago I pushed large updates to my apps and then realized they were only for sale in the US so I turned on all the other countries. I expected a pretty nice boost but got no more than a handful of sales. Not nearly enough to justify the work I put in those updates.

    I hate to say it because I LOVE WebOS, it's still my favorite mobile OS but right now it's dead as a doornail. HP is going to need to work REALLY hard to revive it and (re)gain developer support.
    Hi

    I know you put in a great deal of work on your projects & THANK YOU...however, I expect once HP rolls out the veer, Pre3 & the Touchpad there will be a great deal of marketing. Ruby & Leo both said, if need be HP will either write apps themselves or pay to have apps written to get the totals up there.

    Palm was broke, HP has more money than G-D!

    take care,


    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  10. samab's Avatar
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    #50  
    The problem for webos is that the original group of developers --- despite the fact that Palm had single digit market share --- loved webos because of its unparalleled performance (multitasking). They are willing to make less money because they loved the performance of webos --- even if their apps don't use that performance that much in the first place.

    You want to make money, make an ios app.

    You "believe" in open source, make an android app. Although dreamers got their dreams crushed with idiotic Nexus One ETF, locked bootloaders, and Google withholding the source code for the Honeycomb...

    But the problem is that webos can no longer be claimed to be the performance king. If you want to create the fastest mobile native apps --- you might as well code in c on QNX (even though 99% of these people won't design apps that would take advantage of this extra performance at all).

    So webos developers are left without the money, they can't count open source "believers" to stick with their principles and they don't have the bragging rights to write codes on a world-beating platform.

    It doesn't matter how bad the reviews are for the Playbook, there is going to be a small group of developers that are "believers" of the absolute performance of the OS.
  11. #51  
    Hi,

    I feel that HP has extremely deep pockets and that will help make the difference! take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordbane View Post
    I'm still in shock by that manufacturers are selling tablet hardware like a buggy piece of software that will give you what you paid for after a couple "patches". Apple delivers on what it promises. They may not promise as much as Google, RIM, or HP, but they don't sell you a product and tell you to hang tight while we work on getting you what you paid for.

    Coming in last to the game, HP's launch of the TP has to be flawless. At least as far as critics are concerned, superior OS doesn't matter, more features don't matter, price doesn't matter, its all about delivering a polished and refined product. Which appears like only Apple can deliver out the gate.
    +1
  13. #53  
    I sincerely hope HP is going to be able to get WebOS out of 'the gutter' because i really do love WebOS.

    Like ariker01 said, it HAS to be flawless or they'll be ripped apart by the press like they did to RIM. This is going to be a really hard challenge. The TouchPad needs apps but there's no real incentive right now for developers. I'm probably going to port mine though because it should be relatively easy and if anything it will be for the love of the OS. Both my apps got a 'new life' on the PlayBook. They rock as tablet apps. It's way nicer than on the phones.

    Not expecting a big return though. Let's hope I'm wrong!
    My shiny new TouchPad apps: Scientific RPN Calculator HD - Screamager HD
  14. #54  
    i've got a feeling that HP is going to launch the touchpad with more quality apps than many of us think. no it wont be in the hundreds of thousands, but the big name apps that people expect to see on their devices willbe represented. i'm pretty sure this very issue is part of the reason we've been waiting since february.

    how'd will get it done? a mix of cold hard cash and do-it-yourself mentality.
  15. #55  
    One good thing the Touchpad will have over the Playbook is raw multitasking power. I recently read a review where the reviewer couldn't get more than eight apps to open before new apps choke, the equivalent for us being the Too Many Cards error.

    On the Pre 2, I can't remember ever getting too many cards, even with eight or more apps open, and the Pre 2 has half the RAM that the Playbook and Touchpad have. Maybe RIM still can't solve memory issues with their apps (I remember with a Curve a while back that I had to restart the phone often to recover from memory leaks due to badly-programmed apps). Maybe the fact that you're using javascript and C/C++ on webOS makes multitasking more efficient. Either way, it sounds like the Touchpad will be able to run circles around the Playbook when it comes to multitasking.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Or, how much market share did Windows Phone 7 gain in the smart phone market with that $500 million advertising blitz that Microsoft did?
    It did get Microsoft a bigger app store/catalog/market than webOS has.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  16. samab's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    One good thing the Touchpad will have over the Playbook is raw multitasking power. I recently read a review where the reviewer couldn't get more than eight apps to open before new apps choke, the equivalent for us being the Too Many Cards error.
    We are also talking big apps doing heavy things in the background --- the Playbook is playing an HD video in the background, running a video game in the background, playing a youtube video in the browser...

    Memory usage is very different when you hit the center button on a TouchPad --- the video PAUSED in the background and the fighter video game PAUSED in the background. WebOS can do true multitasking --- it would have no problem doing SETI@Home calculations in the background. The problem is that for time-sensitive stuff like video --- the video is going to stutter in the background. Lesser-powered desktop PC's do that sometimes --- you are playing a movie and then you launch the word processor, well the video is going to stutter for a while. So to avoid video stuttering --- IOS, Android and Webos are designed to pause video in the background.

    It may only take 10-20% CPU power to play a HD video on a dual-core A9 CPU --- but if you have a non-realtime operating system, you are going to have stuttering video in the background. The Playbook can play video in the background because QNX is a realtime operating system --- RIM can reserve that 20% CPU for the video player like the app is a nuclear power station.
    Last edited by samab; 04/29/2011 at 12:53 AM.
  17. #57  
    The Pre "suffers" from the same "limitation", but realistically, you don't want that game to run in the background, not for being memory-intesive, but because you will crash and lose. If it's a fast-paced, constantly changing game, you want it paused when you're not using it. If it's a slow game like Angry Birds, it is essentially paused when you're not interacting with it. At least for games, developers aren't even forced to pause their apps when in card view. You would have to listen to the card deactivate event and pause the app yourself, to be a "good citizen" and not drain your user's battery or hog your user's phone's resources.

    For HD video, why would you want it running in the background? I can see low-res video like Youtube running in the background if you use Youtube to listen to music, but not HD video where you want to focus on the video content. It makes sense to automatically pause it in the background, so if a user checks an incoming email mid-movie, the user can go right back to where he left off in the movie. Not only is it convenient, it also conserves resources. I don't see why RIM thought it was OK to allow HD video to run in the background (which is what I got from you), even if it *only* uses 10-20% of CPU. That's battery you're using up inefficiently.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  18. samab's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    The Pre "suffers" from the same "limitation", but realistically, you don't want that game to run in the background, not for being memory-intesive, but because you will crash and lose. If it's a fast-paced, constantly changing game, you want it paused when you're not using it. If it's a slow game like Angry Birds, it is essentially paused when you're not interacting with it. At least for games, developers aren't even forced to pause their apps when in card view. You would have to listen to the card deactivate event and pause the app yourself, to be a "good citizen" and not drain your user's battery or hog your user's phone's resources.

    For HD video, why would you want it running in the background? I can see low-res video like Youtube running in the background if you use Youtube to listen to music, but not HD video where you want to focus on the video content. It makes sense to automatically pause it in the background, so if a user checks an incoming email mid-movie, the user can go right back to where he left off in the movie. Not only is it convenient, it also conserves resources. I don't see why RIM thought it was OK to allow HD video to run in the background (which is what I got from you), even if it *only* uses 10-20% of CPU. That's battery you're using up inefficiently.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    There is an end-user option on the Playbook to pause all apps in the background if you want to. There is also a second end-user option on the Playbook for apps to stay alive in the card view only. There is also the third option (all singing all dancing) which everybody play with just for fun for demos.

    You can pause the video in the background. You can pause the video game in the background.

    All I am saying is that you are comparing apples with oranges with respect to memory usage. The Playbook is out for 10 days now, aside from Mossberg --- nobody else complained about Playbook's battery life.

    RIM even joked at CES that there is no real life usage of playing an HD video in the background. But what they have is un-parallel bragging rights for multitasking performance --- and that is going to hurt webos the most. IOS developers have the money. Android developers have their open source belief. Playbook developers have the top of the line performance bragging rights.

    You can count on some insane Playbook developer to code his farting app in C with the native development kit --- to have the highest performance with the lowest footprint farting app in the entire mobile world. He is not going to do that for money. He is not going to do that because he believes in some open source crap. He is going to do that just because he can. And these insane people used to develop for webos --- because webos used to have the un-parallel multitasking bragging rights.
  19. #59  
    I hate to be in RIMs shoes if the 60 day mark passes and no native pim comes.. If that happens.. Not only will RIM be looking for a new ceo but it may well kill the playbook and its cheap webos knock off and rim leaving webos as the only player doing Mtasking right


    Quote Originally Posted by Business Insider
    Problem 2: RIM 'Approximated' webOS
    Using the PlayBook, it appears that RIM may have copied webOS with its multi-tasking card system. As some have implied, RIM's QNX operating system feels like a cheap Chinese knock off of webOS. Joshua Topolsky, formerly of Engadget, even raised the issue when he interviewed HP-Palm's Jon Rubinstein on the Engadget Show Live! (March 25, 2011), asking if they were thinking of suing RIM over QNX for what he thought to be a copy of the look and feel of webOS.


    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/blackberry-playbook-achtung-rough-roads-ahead-for-rim-2011-4#ixzz1Ktk36eTX
    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  20. #60  
    Y'know...

    If the only issue is on the missing software side, this is quite remediable by RIM. Seriously.

    All of the reviews I have seen show it to be a solid, high performance tablet device, second only to the iPad2 in performance.

    The consistant disadvantage specified is the small 7" screen... but, for some, that would be a disadvantage and others, an advantage, as they like that smaller, more portable size.

    One thing is for sure, for screen quality, its a HUGE advantage, because they are packing all of those pixels that the larger tablets have into a smaller screen yielding a very high screen density that appraches the iPhone's "retina" density.

    So, if the Playbook is "failing" out of the gate, its not due to hardware or performance issues - its due to the lack of those apps, and they are likely coming.

    As far as the QNX emulation of WebOS - I personally believe HP is keeping a careful eye on the success of the Playbook, and is likely lining thier legal resources up for a HUGE lawsuit, when and if the time is right.

    I've looked at the Playbook in many videos now, and Id say it's UI is about 70% WebOS based - so much that it could actually be appealing to WebOS enthusiasts.

    Just sayin...

    One more thing...

    Not that this is what I personally wanted, but, RIM definitely should have bought Palm last year - given what appears to be their intensive need to so sgnificantly emulate their OS.

    Last edited by LCGuy; 04/29/2011 at 05:35 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

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