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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    Their "new" operating system soon to be released on phones. Makes me sick. Bet they are gonna copy stacks too.
    Android 1.0 beta on November 7, 2007 let you swipe Cards to move through the browser windows. You could also search the phone or internet by just typing. Contacts and calendar were synergized together from Gmail and other sources.

    But arguably Android took the Cards idea from Helio as did Apple who had already used it in Safari. And Helio seems to have taken them from Danger.

    Coincidentally, Matias Duarte directed UI development for Danger, Helio, Palm, and now Android at exactly those times. Andrew Rubin was his boss at Danger who left to start Android in 2005. Hmmm...

    Duarte's 58 patents are the breadcrumbs to show where he has been. Listen to his Engadget interview from 2011 CES to hear how excited he is about the future.

    RIM took the old ideas. HP got Palm.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 04/12/2011 at 03:54 PM.
  2. #22  
    a lot of people in the tech indudtry think the new rim os is a straight rip off of webos. You saying you disagree? Has this ever been implemented on smartphone before palm
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    a lot of people in the tech indudtry think the new rim os is a straight rip off of webos. You saying you disagree? Has this ever been implemented on smartphone before palm
    Matias Duarte had used cards and all the rest in his UI designs long before Palm.

    Andrew Rubin, his old boss, put the Cards and the other ideas into Android 1.0 beta on November 7, 2007, 14 months before Palm showed them. Android also had account, contact, and calendar synergy, and just type searching before webOS came out.

    Apple's mobile Safari was using cards even before Android. Look at Apple's: iPhone 4 - Multitasking done the right way. You swipe the cards around then "tap one to reopen it. No need to wait for the app to reload...Apps can remember where you left off..."

    Palm hired Duarte in September 2007 to bring along his bag of tricks, cards and all.

    Watch Duarte's Engadget interview from 2011 CES. Listen how excited he is about the future. You can see he is just dying to say the words "Ice Cream".

    RIM got Duarte's old ideas. HP got Palm. Google got Duarte.

    Brilliance does not come from companies. Brilliance comes from people.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 04/13/2011 at 12:31 AM.
  4. #24  
    Well, I disagree and apparently so does hp. When asked to comment they said its a fast innovation and imitation cycle and that they will continue to innovate and others will follow one year behind. And as for Rim, they are saying that its like cars, they all look the same so they can perform the same function. HP derides BlackBerry PlayBook OS as a 'fast imitation' of webOS, RIM says it's just good UI design -- Engadget

    And we all know that a company is an abstraction for a group of people. And the company gets the best people to accomplish what you are trying to do. If Mr. Duarte took his brilliance to palm and invented webos it is palm's brilliance. Its not like he could show up at google and turn android into a webos clone without google risking a lawsuit from palm. Everybody knows that.

    When I got my job I had to sign an agreement saying that if I happen to invent something while working there it is their property and not mine.
    Last edited by laingman; 04/13/2011 at 02:00 AM.
  5. #25  
    That is exactly it. Take a look at Duarte's 58 patents. They were all the property of the companies he worked for at the time.

    With each company he took their UI to amazing new heights. webOS was his best UI at the time he was released last May to go to Google. He talks about webOS in that interview.
  6. #26  
    from an article on the subject RIM copy WebOS:

    Fast forward to present day. After HP’s Think Beyond Event, the PlayBook’s *QNX-powered “webOS clone” suddenly seemed outdated to many in the tech blogosphere. This must’ve given HP some moxy to finally speak out on the topic.*First up we give you*Jon Oakes, Director of Product Marketing*for the*TouchPad:

    From what we’ve seen in the market, there are some uncanny similarities. It’s a fast innovation cycle and a fast imitation cycle in this market, so we just know that we have the creative engine here to continue to build on what we have, and we’ll keep innovating, we’ll keep honing and those guys hopefully will continue to see the value in it and keep following us by about a year.

    Pretty bold statement, that, and as webOS fanatics we have to say we agree. So how did RIM respond to this? *Here is what*Jeff McDowell, senior vice president for business and platform marketing for RIM had to say:

    I feel that we set out from the ground up to define a user experience that we felt would delight our customers, and we landed in a place that may look like other competitive devices. But there was no intention and no preconceived notion that this is what we want to end up looking like. In fact, I think QNX had that design lined up before we even started working with them.

    You know, cars over time end up looking a lot alike because you put them through a wind tunnel, and when you’re trying to come up with the best coefficient to drag ratio, there’s one optimized shape that gets the best wind resistance, right? Well, when you’re trying to optimize user experience that juggles multitasking, multiple apps open at once and on a small screen, you’re going to get people landing on similar kinds of designs.

    "RIM doesn’t deny copying webOS at all. At the same time, however, they may be making a completely valid point: webOS nailed multitasking with the card metaphor. Why try to re-invent the wheel? In all honesty, the iOS faithful were crying foul when webOS came out with pinch to zoom. RIM and Microsoft are just the beginning of the webOS “clones”. It’s very possible other operating systems will follow suit very soon!"
    Last edited by Rainforrest; 04/13/2011 at 11:22 AM.
  7. #27  
    In Silicon Valley, you hope your competitors will copy what you did a year ago.

    The RIM exchange made me think of years ago when Steve Jobs said Apple would not be suing Microsoft over implementing a mouse. Jobs and Woz had first seen a mouse in use a decade earlier when they had been given a tour of Xerox PARC.
  8. #28  
    You know I have problems with RIM. OK microsoft designed a new OS and will incorporate cards for multitasking. But blackberry, I just dont know about them.

    Josh Topolsky (formerly of engadget):

    To understand the PlayBook UI, you need only really understand Palmís (and now HPís) webOS. This tabletís interface owes much to its underdog competitor, but most obvious is the way in which this UI deals with multitasking, application switching, and task management.

    and NY Times:

    Nor is QNX the only other company that lent a hand. Palm and Apple were also involved, although they didnít know it. The PlayBook software is crawling with borrowed ideas.

    For example, to remove or rearrange apps, you hold your finger down on one app icon until all icons begin to pulse (hello, iPad!). And to close a program, you swipe your finger upward from the bottom bezel to turn all app windows into ďcards,Ē and then flick one upward off the screen (hello, Palm Pre!).
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    Honestly... I still LOVE WebOS but as it stands now the TouchPad has pretty much nothing on any other new tablet that's already out or coming out well before the TouchPad does except for....... WebOS.

    And I'm quite worried about a potential lack of apps. Even I as a WebOS developer am kind of hesitant to dive into doing TP apps because at this point I have no idea if anyone besides us WebOS die-hards is going to buy one. I really hope it will be a succes but I'm seriously worried about it failing miserably.

    It's WAY too late. WAY too late.
    i just don't understand the 'its too late argument'. the tablet industry (and really the smartphone industry) as we know it is still in its infancy. If you had to estimate, how many tablets do you think there are per connected household? Significantly less then .5, I can promise you that. Now compare that to the number of cellphones or PCs per house hold and you realize the massive potential for growth. Once you throw in their intentions to ship webOS on pretty much every device they sell, you have a user base so huge, it would be silly not to develop for it.

    the 'its too late argument' would only make sense if everyone who WOULD get a tablet already has one. and that simply isn't the case. HP doesn't have to make converts out of anyone, they just have to offer a competitive alternative, at a reasonable price, and differentiate enough to court those who passed on current offerings. an easy task? certainly not. But doable.

    Will WebOS become a market leader behind sales of the TouchPad? probably not. But they certainly can become a key player.


    This entire situation reminds me of the video game market. Nintendo and Sega used to rain supreme. Sega is now basically dead. People thought Sony was silly for competing with Nintendo with a new format... then Sony went on to create the best selling console of all time while turning Nintendo into a shadow of its former self. Microsoft then struggled in the market for a few years before its hardcore/online focus brought it ahead of the previous giant, Sony. But by this time, ironically, Nintendo's focus on the non-gamer brought it back into the top spot. the moral of the story is the video game industry is a couple decades old, and it still fluctuating and reaching new demographics. Microsoft came to the party 20 years late and still found success. Why would this be any different in the tablet industry... which is only 2 years old?
  10.    #30  
    http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21387Hi all,

    Well Rim won't be happy about this article, (frankly I sill think the play book is only half baked, b/c of the email situation).

    If I were Rim I would be mortified by New York Times' David Pogue's review: "RIM has just shipped a BlackBerry product that cannot do email. It must be skating season in hell."

    You can find the balance of this article at the link below.

    The comments at the link site are interesting as well.

    Take care,

    Jay


    Lackluster PlayBook Reviews Put RIM Chiefs On Defensive
    Mark Kurlyandchik - April 15, 2011 8:14 AM

    A few days after Research In Motion's first foray into tablet computers, the BlackBerry PlayBook, began garnering less-than-stellar reviews, RIM's co-CEOs are coming out to defend it.

    While our review round-up certainly didn't paint a flattering picture of the PlayBook, we did have some bright spots to point out. Meanwhile, a Reuters report this morning began with the following line: "RIM's PlayBook tablet bombed with influential technology reviewers who called the iPad competitor a rushed job that won't even provide RIM's vaunted email service unless it's hooked up to a BlackBerry."

    The report also quotes the New York Times' David Pogue's review: "RIM has just shipped a BlackBerry product that cannot do email. It must be skating season in hell."
    Last edited by ilovedessert; 04/17/2011 at 11:46 AM. Reason: Sos sorry I left out the link:
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  11. #31  
    go playbook it's surely a rushed job but still beats the ipad as we all know appl is just a big ballon that's going tto bust.. And to webos fans how many rim products where sold this year and how many wbeos products?...
  12. giggles's Avatar
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    #32  
    Besides over thinking the breadcrumb trail. In this new smartphone/superphone era of OS's. Any knowledgeable tech person who its fairly objective can tell you blackberry obviously took ALOT of influence from webOS abit too much. Like honestly wheres the innovativeness. If HP would of moved the touchpad in a different direction by implementing a full gesture area. Blackberry would of looked really foolish especially with the release of the 7inch Opal coming up. And if you've watched any reviews of the playbook for a tablet with a imminent release its a doomed product. Its not polished one bit. Garuntee theyll be handing them out for free in a year.
  13.    #33  
    Hi all

    I'm sorry, I left the link out of my posting (look up 3 posting ahead of this one), I have since edited that posting with the link.

    However here is the link once again:

    DailyTech - Lackluster PlayBook Reviews Put RIM Chiefs On Defensive


    So sorry for my blunder.

    Take care all,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  14. giggles's Avatar
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    #34  
    HP on the BlackBerry PlayBook. Jon Oakes, director of product marketing, TouchPad

    From what we’ve seen in the market, there are some uncanny similarities. It’s a fast innovation cycle and a fast imitation cycle in this market, so we just know that we have the creative engine here to continue to build on what we have, and we’ll keep innovating, we’ll keep honing and those guys hopefully will continue to see the value in it and keep following us by about a year.

    RIM’s response. Jeff McDowell, senior vice president for business and platform marketing

    I feel that we set out from the ground up to define a user experience that we felt would delight our customers, and we landed in a place that may look like other competitive devices. But there was no intention and no preconceived notion that this is what we want to end up looking like. In fact, I think QNX had that design lined up before we even started working with them.

    You know, cars over time end up looking a lot alike because you put them through a wind tunnel, and when you’re trying to come up with the best coefficient to drag ratio, there’s one optimized shape that gets the best wind resistance, right? Well, when you’re trying to optimize user experience that juggles multitasking, multiple apps open at once and on a small screen, you’re going to get people landing on similar kinds of designs.
    Basically what RIM does is not deny they copied webOS and pretty much praise palms execution. What there pretty much trying to do its get competitive again and they had to do it quick so they took the easy way to do it. But they did a sloppy job, it has awful reviews and honestly who is going to buy a playbook or knows there even is one. Many people have there eyes on a ipad even enterprise android second and webos 3rd. and with these awful reviews it dosent help.

    Sad part is RIM had the resource and technology and the time to match apples innovation. and What did they do? Sit on their hands.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by giggles View Post
    Basically what RIM does is not deny they copied webOS and pretty much praise palms execution. What there pretty much trying to do its get competitive again and they had to do it quick so they took the easy way to do it. But they did a sloppy job, it has awful reviews and honestly who is going to buy a playbook or knows there even is one. Many people have there eyes on a ipad even enterprise android second and webos 3rd. and with these awful reviews it dosent help.

    Sad part is RIM had the resource and technology and the time to match apples innovation. and What did they do? Sit on their hands.
    Hi all,

    So true!

    take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  16. #36  
    guys be surprised even so witth the bad reviews I really think it's going to go great cause the product is just awsome only reason of the bad reviews is cause so far it was only 1 think IPAD so until proovin to be good everything will be bad besides it but it's gona be proved fast
  17.    #37  
    Hi all,

    Here's another one...I am not trolling for them, I found this one on NY Times tech page. The entire artciel can be found at the following link:

    RIM CEO Defends BlackBerry PlayBook Tablet Against Meany Critics - NYTimes.com

    RIM CEO Defends BlackBerry PlayBook Tablet Against Meany Critics

    By DEVINDRA HARDAWAR of VentureBeat

    Research in Motionís BlackBerry PlayBook tablet has (deservedly) faced heat from reviewers for its missing features and over-reliance on BlackBerry phones. But RIM co-CEO Jim Balsillie says those complaints are misguided, Bloomberg reports.

    While itís normal for a CEO to defend a fledgling product ó especially a product whose success holds an entire companyís future on the line ó Balsillie may end up appearing clueless and out of touch by refusing to acknowledge actual issues with the PlayBookís launch.

    In response to critics who said that the PlayBook was rushed to the market, Balsillie said in a TV interview with Bloomberg: ďI donít think thatís fair. A lot of the people who want this want a secure and free extension of their BlackBerry.Ē
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  18. #38  
    Reviews don't matter that much. Fact is there are so many BB users out there rocking their trackballs and and swearing by BBM, it is going to be hard for rim to fail. There's millions of kids who get a blackberry and think they have arrived. Whole corporations, business people and even the president swear by them.

    Now they have a"new" os that takes productivity to a new level, I don't see what's gonna stop them. Reviews be damned
  19. #39  
    I love this quote from the article:
    "That means the device is practically useless to the hundreds of millions of smartphone users on other platforms worldwide."

    I have no doubt they will make sales. It sounds like they already have a number of key corporations already signed up on national agreements. Those national agreements will give each corporation a discount off of the MSRP ($499).

    That means that it will kill BlackBerry to cut the MSRP because all those corporate customers would get even lower prices.

    So RIM is going to be stuck with their $499 MRSP. But the ones buying it won't be paying anywhere close to that price.

    If regular people want a 7" tablet for $349, buy the Samsung.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 04/17/2011 at 09:48 PM.
  20. giggles's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    I love this quote from the article:
    "That means the device is practically useless to the hundreds of millions of smartphone users on other platforms worldwide."

    I have no doubt they will make sales. It sounds like they already have a number of key corporations already signed up on national agreements. Those national agreements will give each corporation a discount off of the MSRP ($499).

    That means that it will kill BlackBerry to cut the MSRP because all those corporate customers would get even lower prices.

    So RIM is going to be stuck with their $499 MRSP. But the ones buying it won't be paying anywhere close to that price.

    If regular people want a 7" tablet for $349, buy the Samsung.

    that tablet had to cost more then $230+ to make. and their not going to sell alot. so whatever is cut off from the top their just diminishing the little profit theyll make.
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