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  1.    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by FischOderAal View Post
    Care to explain?

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Google "Animal House" and "Germans bombed Pearl Harbor".

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  2. #42  
    I wasn't even born then...
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by FischOderAal View Post
    Personally, I hate flash. Adobe's inability to program anything decent is flabbergasting. It's as badly performing as it's insecure. That's why I usually block it on my desktop computer as well. However, for the last two days I've been visiting websites of companies a lot and frankly I see myself clicking the "unblock" icon very often And the ones are no small companies... Check Siemens, KUKA, Bosch Rexroth and you will see flash on their sites.

    Flash sucks, but sometimes you find yourself "needing" it. Maybe not on a smartphone but definitely on a Tablet.
    I've had an EVO for a while now and flash is basically one of the big reasons I hardly ever pick up my Pre - anymore. I must be drawn to websites that use flash video because when my EVO broke down (3 mos after being submerged in a sink for 10 min) I couldn't stand the small screen and lack of flash on me Pre. WebOS on a big slate 4.3" or a 7" tablet would be amazing....oh well.
  4. #44  
    I broke down and got an ipad when they went on sale after the 2 came out. I must say I agree with Ruby that a Veer and a tablet make a great combo. For me it would probably be a veer and an ipad because the apps are just amazing. Period. At this point with my wife's galaxy tab (3g) and my ipad (wifi) we hardly need smartphones. If I could get wifi hotpot capability on a dumb phone that would be awesome...or a tiny little Veer would work if it could go 12 hrs between charges.
  5. #45  
    I've had an iPad since December & I still hate the OS. The device is useful & has useful applications, but aside from that the so-called multitasking you're talking about is incredibly frustrating. If you are a power webOS user, you will NOT get used to iOS (if you actually perform tasks, value your time, & value your sanity). I literally want to chuck the iPad across the room every night I use it out of frustration from lack of gestures, accidentally closing an app, accidentally closing a browser page, having to navigate to the settings page just to change the settings in the app I'm using, etc.

    As for March Madness NCAA app. Lol. Virtually any device with internet could watch the games WITHOUT AN APP!!! I had games on my TV, & two laptops. I could tether my laptops on the go & watch the games that way as well. I'm guessing the TouchPad would be no different. Heaven forbid you might want to email, text, facebook, tweet, or whatever else it is we do these days...during the game, from the SAME device, without having to close it out. This is why it's laughable that anyone thinks the tablet battle is over.

    Also, I can't resist going after the remark about 'money in a drawer'. I hope it's just a figure of speech, because you'd be better served just opening up a quick hit ING account & collect some interest or something. Heck, buy a share or two of the golden apple & then cash out some extra for some accessories.

    I realize my post is kind of negative, and I am sorry for that part, but as someone who uses an iPad daily, I can think of as many things I hate about it as I can of the things I love about it. For this reason, I will be purchasing a TouchPad & supporting an OS that, while low in market share & mindshare, at least attempts to be relevant to the busy world that we live in.
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by steffej3 View Post

    As for March Madness NCAA app. Lol. Virtually any device with internet could watch the games WITHOUT AN APP!!! I had games on my TV, & two laptops. I could tether my laptops on the go & watch the games that way as well. I'm guessing the TouchPad would be no different. Heaven forbid you might want to email, text, facebook, tweet, or whatever else it is we do these days...during the game, from the SAME device, without having to close it out. This is why it's laughable that anyone thinks the tablet battle is over.

    Also, I can't resist going after the remark about 'money in a drawer'. I hope it's just a figure of speech, because you'd be better served just opening up a quick hit ING account & collect some interest or something. Heck, buy a share or two of the golden apple & then cash out some extra for some accessories.
    Could I have watched March Madness on my Pre+? I don't think so. Besides, I was only using it as an example of the many, many apps that will go straight to iPad and will never be seen on the Touchpad.

    As for the "money in a drawer" - yes I really do have money stashed there. I won $400 in my fantasy football league this year and it's not worth opening an account for what amounts to a few months. If I put it in my bank account it will disappear, so it's in my drawer in an envelope. No need to be pompous about it.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by smmullen View Post
    I watched some of one of the games on his iPad2 using the CBS March Madness app. I thought to myself,"this would be awesome on a Touchpad". But, alas ... that app and thousands of others like it won't be avail on the Touchpad.


    if I want to be able to enjoy the latest... apps, there's no sense in buying a Touchpad.

    If you think I'm wrong, please let me know.
    I think you are correct.

    I don't know about making "no sense in buying a Touchpad" but i will agree to the extent that if App choice is a high priority Touchpad is unlikely to have nearly the choice that ipads or even Android tablets have.

    I had a similar thought earlier this year when i saw a Academy Awards app. I had no interest in the Academy Awards but it was an example of the app support problem. When there are one off events or events that have a short duration or lead time a smaller platform like webos isn't going to get them. During the World Cup their was a reference on a show to interacting with people on their World Cup app too. The specifics aren't important really. the point is there will always be events that have apps that don't go to the smaller platforms, like Olympics, Grammys, NBA Finals, NHL finals, NFL draft app, etc.

    Things could change. But i've had a Pre almost two years and people said the same thing about the webos catalog and it has as of yet not happened. so if you're playing the percentages i'd bet things go the same as they have been going. To be fair Android doesn't also get plenty of those apps too. But it is a clear second choice.

    Some will say just use a website. But if there is a platform with an an app and a browser i've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why one shouldn't pick the platform that gives you two options rather then one. A website is also often no adequate. Games don't often have websites. If you're looking for a utility, there is unlikely a website that will does the same thing. If you don't use music player remix or Amigo there is no website to go to to play music from you're pre so the web isn't an alternative music player of files on your phone. I don't know of a website that does what garage band does. I don't know of any guitar amplifier modeling software that is coming to WebOS. And if what you want is an ESPN app any website giving scores is not adequate because what you want is "The ESPN" app or whatever that specific app is. Point is the web is not adequate sometimes.

    Things could change but it's not gonna happen immediately in my opinion. I think they talked about most of the stuff that's in the pipeline like kindle, time magazine, that cytrix, and a few others. I don't think it's a surprise that on the touchpad the game you see all the time is that flying game on every demo on every touchpad. My gut says it's the only one you see cause it's the one that's either ready or the only one in the works that is presentable. I don't think they are hiding a hundreds of name apps just because. Mostly cause I don't recall palm doing that before so i don't see why they'd change plus i don't see much benefit either in not advertising something like more apps that would be a positive.

    Regardless having the most options for apps and having the latest apps are important to you my gut says you'll be disappointed with any platform that doesn't have them. I think if all you want to do is log into your email, use the included apps, or don't care about having the latest apps or the most options any tablet may do you just fine.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 04/11/2011 at 08:36 PM.
  8. #48  
    Some of app availability will depend on sales. HP has a huge channel to enterprise so we can't just extrapolate from Palm's recent history. I'm sure many companies don't want to buy android and risk sensitive data on google; others will have concerns about ipad's dependence on itunes. If HP can also bundle a certain percentage of pre3s, things could get interesting. We're just going to have to see how many users the channel can score.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by steffej3 View Post
    I've had an iPad since December & I still hate the OS. The device is useful & has useful applications, but aside from that the so-called multitasking you're talking about is incredibly frustrating. If you are a power webOS user, you will NOT get used to iOS (if you actually perform tasks, value your time, & value your sanity). I literally want to chuck the iPad across the room every night I use it out of frustration from lack of gestures, accidentally closing an app, accidentally closing a browser page, having to navigate to the settings page just to change the settings in the app I'm using, etc.
    This describes EXACTLY why I'd never even consider an iPad or iPhone with the current state of iOS. Whenever I handle an iOS device I feel like i'm going insane for the exact same reasons you describe.

    It's beyond me why HP took away the gestures from the TouchPad by the way. It will still have the multitasking but I'll miss the gestures terribly I'm afraid.
    My shiny new TouchPad apps: Scientific RPN Calculator HD - Screamager HD
  10. donjt81's Avatar
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    #50  
    You are 100% correct. I took a chance on the original Pre and 2 years later I have not a single useful app.

    I am not falling into this trap again. No Pre3, no touchpad for me. Sure both look nice but will have zero useful apps.

    Seems like every body has an app for the iPhone and even android.
  11. #51  
    i think if you care a ton about user interfaces that alone may make you buy a webos device. I kinda don't care. the user interface has to just be good enough. But kinda like i use my laptop. I don't think about the interface much. when i use it i just use it but i'm not thinking about how i'm navigating it and the user interface. I click the browser. I use the browser. it just has to be good enough that it doesn't bother me. i'm more concerned with what i can do on a platform then how i do it. There are things i like and hate about all mobile operating system. for those where the interface is top priority i think webos devices will do well. For those concerned most with apps and choice of apps i think it will struggle, until it gets the the apps.
  12. Gompers's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Some of app availability will depend on sales. HP has a huge channel to enterprise so we can't just extrapolate from Palm's recent history. I'm sure many companies don't want to buy android and risk sensitive data on google; others will have concerns about ipad's dependence on itunes. If HP can also bundle a certain percentage of pre3s, things could get interesting. We're just going to have to see how many users the channel can score.
    I'm not holding my breath on the enterprise angle just yet. What apps do enterprise users use? Enterprise apps. Not stuff like the Masters app or GarageBand or the directv app or cool stuff that consumers would find attractive. The only major advantage I see there is scale. Just having a trillion webos tablets out there will ensure they are developed for, but if you are a consumer, the odds are that you're going to be better off with a consumer-oriented device. Thats one of the reasons I never understood the blackberry craze for personal use, and it was just a matter of time before something better came along.

    Is iOS the perfect OS? He'll no. It sucks in some ways. But you don't actually DO anything with an OS. You use it to interact with the software that runs on the platform. No matter how great your OS is, without stuff to DO with it, it's sort of pointless. iOS is good enough for most people, and the selection of things you can just do with it is second to none. That's why Apple is selling millions of iPads and iPhones.

    I don't see ANYBODY trying to market their tablet by saying "look what our device does that the ipad doesn't". They are just saying "hey look! We aren't Apple!". That may work with early adopters and Apple haters, but in the long run they have an inferior ecosystem and nothing to really differentiate themselves. That's where webos can win, but it has to do all the stuff that the ipad does, maybe some things it doesn't, and it has to do it as well or better. It's a tall order.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gompers View Post
    But you don't actually DO anything with an OS. You use it to interact with the software that runs on the platform. No matter how great your OS is, without stuff to DO with it, it's sort of pointless.
    That's totally my opinion. For the tech guru i think it's like graphics used to be with video games. But now pretty much all video games have really good graphics. At some point they are good enough and the game has to carry the day. I think at some point an OS is good enough. I don't think it's the biggest concern for most consumers. Like people say Android is cumbersome and no doubt, in some places, it is. And they say IOS sucks, but the reality is people in almost every country in the world speaking nearly every language all walk into apple stores and play with the phone and buy the phone. And they do the same for Android. Clearly the "crappy" OS is not the most important factor when purchasing a phone. Apple sold like 15 million tablets in like 9 months. if it's OS is crappy well it's beating the pants off the competition one one hand tied behind their back. That doesn't speak well of the competition. Hell you take Android, IOS and Blackberry and people could say they all have bad interfaces but combine them and they got like 80% of the cell phone market. Clearly the OS is not that important to most people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gompers View Post
    I don't see ANYBODY trying to market their tablet by saying "look what our device does that the ipad doesn't". They are just saying "hey look! We aren't Apple!". That may work with early adopters and Apple haters,
    Totally agree. I don't think you can be that successful trying to make a mainstream product that is targeted at a small niche. If you're trying to sell a lot of products apple haters are a very small part of the market. The much larger part either likes what apple does or has no opinion one way or the other. They aren't going to be impressed by "where not apple" approaches because what apple offers they want. I think you have to do what they do, not like they do in everyway, but do what they do but better. Like multitasking and notifications are something they do better. But on the other side, media, movies, music, apps, etc the fall behind and that hurts. I think stepping up the core webos apps to exactly everything in the apple apps is good first step. Like there should be no feature at all on an ipod that's not on a webos phone. Personally, i'd have done that at launch. Like if they offered white balance in the camera i'd offer white balance, red eye reduction, iso select, timed flash, and image stabilization. And i'd be like Jobs. I wouldn't stand for anyone whining to me about how they couldn't do all that. I'd then go find that guy's replacement from in front of Canon's headquarters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gompers View Post
    That's where webos can win, but it has to do all the stuff that the ipad does, maybe some things it doesn't, and it has to do it as well or better. It's a tall order.
    100% agree. And right now i think the alternative tablets all fail in one or both, they don't do all it can do and more and they don't do it better. You take what they do well and and they should copy and take what they do poorly and improve.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by smmullen View Post
    Could I have watched March Madness on my Pre+? I don't think so. Besides, I was only using it as an example of the many, many apps that will go straight to iPad and will never be seen on the Touchpad.

    As for the "money in a drawer" - yes I really do have money stashed there. I won $400 in my fantasy football league this year and it's not worth opening an account for what amounts to a few months. If I put it in my bank account it will disappear, so it's in my drawer in an envelope. No need to be pompous about it.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Hey now, I apologized for my snark & even put a smiley. That said, you are now comparing a Pre+ to an iPad. I fail to see how that's relevant to what I said? Now, if you were watching your games on your iPhone, well, that's another story. However, with KalemSoft Media Player & a little homework, you can watch anything you want, live, on your device, provided you have access to the content via an HTPC (which I do). I get the out of the box mass market bit on that though, so don't get me wrong.

    I have a 10 minute video (unfortunately low quality) that I will upload to YouTube soon. It's a vid I've been showing my iPhone & Android touting friends & family. The video is of my Pre+ running around 36 apps (at once), with extremely minimal lag. Granted, I'm not going to run 36 apps at once much. Interesting is, I kept the battery monitor on & it didn't spike like I thought it would, only spiking significantly when playing games.

    In the video I had many 'useful' apps open, at least useful to me. Here you go: Calendar, Email, SMS, Music Player Remix (playing), Forums, WootOn, WeatherBug, Preware, Ampache Mobile (not streaming), bing search, Angry Birds Rio, Rock Band, Jump O'Clock, Supersonic (awesome btw...and currently only on webOS), WordAce, Flight View, mCraig Pro, Google Maps, FedEx Mobile (added to launcher with icon), untappd, ING Mobile (added to launcher with icon), Smarter Agent Real Estate, Basketmania, Govnah, Express Stocks, Memos, MyQ, Youtube, Amazon Mp3, PodSnatcher, Engadget, Newsroom, TED, Neato, Bit.ly, & Dr. Battery.

    Granted, this was just a Pre+!!! In the vid I switch seamlessly between these apps, even with the music playing. I literally go in and out of games & back to email & text with zero hassle. Best is, they're all running in some state (aka, no loading time to pull them back up). Beyond that, the highest temp achieved (via the live running launcher update view of Govnah) was 47c. Oh, and did I mention I wasn't using wifi in the video, just EV?!?

    The vid is extreme, and despite having many games, I don't play many of them on my phone. I have two kids that love them though. That said, I do keep MANY of these non-game apps open all day long at the office with my device sitting just below my monitors on the touchstone. So, useful is in the eye of the beholder & I call trolling on anyone who says they've found zero useful apps. That's absurd.

    Please, show me where this is even remotely possible on an iPad? Then, show me an employer who would be cool with someone app closing & switching all day long @ their desk on an iPhone. I spend A LOT less time doing so, as nearly everything pushes & is available in an instant. It just makes sense. Enterprise will be fine.

    ***Edit*** The count was actually 38. I had Carbon & Facebook open too. When I get a chance later this week, I'll upload the vid & post the link.
  15. #55  
    I made the same calculation, and got an iPad 2. I wanted something now, not this summer. Even when it comes out, the touchpad just will not have the apps ready for months, if not years. By then, my iPad will be a year or more old. I can sell it and switch if and when touchpad gets to the point where it can match the experience.

    If TP had been out at Christmas, I'd be typing this on it instead of my iPad.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by steffej3 View Post
    Granted, this was just a Pre+!!! In the vid I switch seamlessly between these apps, even with the music playing. I literally go in and out of games & back to email & text with zero hassle. Best is, they're all running in some state (aka, no loading time to pull them back up). Beyond that, the highest temp achieved (via the live running launcher update view of Govnah) was 47c. Oh, and did I mention I wasn't using wifi in the video, just EV?!?

    I am convinced that some webOS enthusiasts have just never used an iPhone or iPad.

    Because while it *looks* different (and I will acknowledge that webOS looks slicker while multitasking) what you just described is something that many iPhone and iPad users do all the time. With absolutely no lag in going from one app to another.

    Play music while doing all those tasks and going back and forth between apps, going back to the same location in a game (providing the game allows for that - such as Angry Birds), clicking over to email, bouncing to a web page and back. I do this, and my battery lasts all day. I didn't even charge my phone last night, and my phone is on 55% today.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    I am convinced that some webOS enthusiasts have just never used an iPhone or iPad.

    Because while it *looks* different (and I will acknowledge that webOS looks slicker while multitasking) what you just described is something that many iPhone and iPad users do all the time. With absolutely no lag in going from one app to another.

    Play music while doing all those tasks and going back and forth between apps, going back to the same location in a game (providing the game allows for that - such as Angry Birds), clicking over to email, bouncing to a web page and back. I do this, and my battery lasts all day. I didn't even charge my phone last night, and my phone is on 55% today.
    I think you missed the part about my owning an iPad since December & how cumbersome it is in comparison (in my opinion). I love the 'providing...allows for that' part, it kind of gets to the nitty gritty here. I am a gadget person & it doesn't take me long to get used to things, but personally, I am frustrated daily by our iPad. I wouldn't have it if I didn't think it was a good device, but that doesn't change my response to the posts here. I'm not advocating people don't get a device for reasons that make sense to them, we all have that freedom.

    Again, open all of the apps I had open on my phone, have them running, and switch without a hitch. Swipe up/left-right/tap. Up again, tap. etc. etc. Never closed a thing, not even apps that weren't pre-coded to multitask...oh wait...hahaha. If you figure out how to run all of that on your iPad, please let me know, b/c I would do anything to become that savvy with mine.

    Sadly, our iPad has pretty much just become an interactive ABC/123 software platform for our kids. My wife evaluates tech for the classroom, and despite it's popularity, has been asked to evaluate many other units b/c there are constant hurdles when using the iPad. She's actually been in contact with HP & is writing up a proposal...so hopefully it gets a shot.
  18. #58  
    Steffej3,
    Interesting post thanks. What "hurdles" does your wife see in the classroom with the ipad?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by mperkinsky View Post
    I broke down and got an ipad when they went on sale after the 2 came out. I must say I agree with Ruby that a Veer and a tablet make a great combo. For me it would probably be a veer and an ipad because the apps are just amazing. Period. At this point with my wife's galaxy tab (3g) and my ipad (wifi) we hardly need smartphones. If I could get wifi hotpot capability on a dumb phone that would be awesome...or a tiny little Veer would work if it could go 12 hrs between charges.
    You are right about almost not needing a smartphone. I make a lot of wifi calls with my iPad using a free program called talkatone. On android, I can make calls with sipdroid. I've been waiting for a similar program for webOS. I still have my pre minus, and would love to be able to make VoIP calls with it. Nothing in the offing.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Steffej3,
    Interesting post thanks. What "hurdles" does your wife see in the classroom with the ipad?
    Happy to provide that info & it comes direct from my wife.

    --->There's no easy or intuitive way to print, especially for teachers with multiple classrooms.

    --->Saving attachments from emails.

    --->Needed ability to have two apps open at the same time, preferably side by side. Example: Reading an iBook while filling in a worksheet on a program like smartNotes.

    --->Teacher having to input the password for apps to update. Students cannot update apps if there are programs purchased by the admin (the school). It's one thing to restrict app purchases, but updates should be able to roll out to a classroom of iPads without the teacher giving out the admin password, especially in an environment with very little IT dept. interaction.

    There's more, but she is presently teaching, so I'll post when I can.

    She's extremely savvy herself, and has some workarounds, but for full classroom to classroom integration, you can't have complex multi-step & technical workarounds to complete everyday tasks.
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