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  1. cwgtex's Avatar
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by helidos View Post
    Technically they can use one of these Powercube Universal Wireless Charging Receiver (PMR-PPC2) | Powermat which makes them chargeable by induction even if there is a cord.
    You can use this:


    I'll stick with this:
    Last edited by cwgtex; 03/25/2011 at 02:41 PM.
  2. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by cwgtex View Post
    I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. If it comes from the OEM, it is a 1st party accessory. Aftermarket products are from a 3rd party.
    I didn't dispute that. Actually, I said that very thing. However, whether an ACCESSORY is 1st party or 3rd party its still an accessory, not a standard feature of the phone.

    The Touchstone technology is standard because the Veer, Pre2, and Pre3 all have the Touchstone coil built in on the back of the phone. That makes it a standard feature.
    No, it means that the ABILITY to have inductive charging out of the box is standard. The ability to actually do that however isn't because you need an extra device that you have to pay for seperate from the phone.

    The magnets needed to use the iPad2's smart cover are built into the iPad2. However, the ability to actually utilize those magnets requires you to buy the smart cover, an accessory.

    The coils needed to inductively charge are built into the Veer, Pre2, and Pre3. However, the ability to actually utilize those coils to inductively charge requires you to buy the touchstone, an accessory.

    Its really simple.

    Can you take your Pre or Veer out of the box and without using anything that did not come in that box inductively charge with it?
  3. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #103  
    Now with that said, with the spirit of how the Greens and Reds are being used, I'd suggest making the Touchstone Green. While other phones do have options for inductive charging, the fact the Touchstones just require the base and nothing else as well as the software bonsues to it would put it as a "better" form of inductive charging.

    Though really inductive charging shouldn't be on there because its not a standard feature of any of those phones. And if you're going to start getting into accessories you'd need to be including things like the Atrix's laptop and hdmi dock or some of the phones that have the car docks. You just get into a whole messy area when you attempt to add accessories into it.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by cwgtex View Post
    HP/Palm phones DO include inductive charging on the phone themselves. No other phone does. Also, no other phone offers the same level of software integration as Palm's Touchstone.

    Yes, you have to buy a base.
    If you buy a Pre 3 you CAN'T inductive charge it without buying an added accessory. That's then end of it there. You can lay your phone on any surface you want but until you go to a store and buy an added touchstone it won't inductive charge. That's by definition an added accessory. Just like any phone capable of inductive charging, You have to go buy something else. 1st party? 3rd party? 8th party is irrelevant. If you don't buy an add on you can't inductive charge these devices. The original post is 100% accurate.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 03/25/2011 at 03:35 PM.
  5. cwgtex's Avatar
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And thus its an aftermarket accessory, not a core feature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I didn't dispute that. Actually, I said that very thing. However, whether an ACCESSORY is 1st party or 3rd party its still an accessory, not a standard feature of the phone.
    You didn't say accessory, you said aftermarket accessory. That was the part I was talking about, sorry if that wasn't clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, it means that the ABILITY to have inductive charging out of the box is standard. The ability to actually do that however isn't because you need an extra device that you have to pay for seperate from the phone.
    I guess we'll just agree to disagree, in my opinion having the ABILITY built into the phone counts as an official feature, even if you have to buy a dock. At least half of the equation comes as a standard feature, better than having to buy everything, and better than having to use a bulky adapter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Can you take your Pre or Veer out of the box and without using anything that did not come in that box inductively charge with it?
    No. However, you can take a Veer, Pre2, or Pre3 out of the box, turn it on, and set it on a dock and start charging. That's good enough for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    1st party? 3rd party? 8th party is irrelevant.
    Being 1st party is relevant (in my opinion) because of the software integration. If that doesn't matter to you then fine. That would be like me saying "HDMI output is irrelevant." It may not matter to me, but it is not irrelevant.

    My main point in all of this is that you don't need an external adapter on the phone to use inductive charging with webOS devices. Touchstone charging is an official HP/Palm feature. No one else has it. No one else has the ability to use inductive charging built into the phones. They all need some kind of case or adapter. Listing inductive charging as a feature of any of these Android phone is misleading, the type of thing you need fine print for.

    On top of all that, the OP is just plain incorrect, because Powermat does not make accessories for any of these Android phones. I cannot find an inductive charging cover or case for any of them, from Powermat or anyone else. Please someone correct me if you can find one. The "Powercube" does not count, no one is going to walk around with a cube plugged into their phone.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by cwgtex View Post
    Being 1st party is relevant (in my opinion) because of the software integration. If that doesn't matter to you then fine. That would be like me saying "HDMI output is irrelevant." It may not matter to me, but it is not irrelevant.
    No it's irrelevant to the original post and the chart. The Original post is a list of feature of the phone not accessories. And the specific section is "inductive charging"not inductive chargers. Nor is it a comparison of the merits of inductive chargers.

    the fact that it is 1st second or 3rd party in no way makes the original post inaccurate. if the whole part about powermats not working for android phones is true, I get you point there. Fine it's not available. Don't say it is. But that still doesn't mean if you buy a Pre you can do it without an add on. you just can't. Plus, You think one method is better. Fine. The OP only states how it would be done. Not what is better or worse.

    If you want a thread comparing which inductive charger is better that's fine but it probably should be a separate thread.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 03/25/2011 at 04:53 PM.
  7. cwgtex's Avatar
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    The Original post is a list of feature of the phone not accessories.
    Then why are accessories listed in the chart along side the features? As well as the chart title being "Feature Comparison".
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    the fact that it is 1st second or 3rd party in no way makes the original post inaccurate.
    They part that is inaccurate and not debatable is that Powermat does not make products for the Atrix, Thunderbolt, or Evo3D. Please, if you have a link to a Powermat case for any of these phones post it and prove me wrong.
    Last edited by cwgtex; 03/25/2011 at 09:12 PM.
  8. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #108  
    cwgtex, so would you say the Smartcover is a feature of an accessory of the iPad2? I'm wanting to understand your point with potentially some internal consistency here.
  9. cwgtex's Avatar
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    #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    cwgtex, so would you say the Smartcover is a feature of an accessory of the iPad2? I'm wanting to understand your point with potentially some internal consistency here.
    Let me see if I can clear things up on my point of view. 3rd party accessories (not from OEM) should not be listed as a feature. 1st party accessories (from the OEM) that have hardware and software integration can be.

    The Smartcover is sold by Apple. Magnets for attaching it are built into every iPad2 (hardware integration). Opening the Smartcover turns on the screen, and closing it turns off the screen (software integration). So yes, I would say that the Smartcover is both a feature and an accessory of the iPad2.

    I will remind everyone that this is just my opinion, yall are entitled to your own, but my opinion doesn't change the fact that the chart in the OP is still factually incorrect, because Powermat does not make inductive charging products for the Atrix, Thunderbolt, or Evo3D.
  10. mike5's Avatar
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    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by cwgtex View Post
    Let me see if I can clear things up on my point of view. 3rd party accessories (not from OEM) should not be listed as a feature. 1st party accessories (from the OEM) that have hardware and software integration can be.

    The Smartcover is sold by Apple. Magnets for attaching it are built into every iPad2 (hardware integration). Opening the Smartcover turns on the screen, and closing it turns off the screen (software integration). So yes, I would say that the Smartcover is both a feature and an accessory of the iPad2.

    I will remind everyone that this is just my opinion, yall are entitled to your own, but my opinion doesn't change the fact that the chart in the OP is still factually incorrect, because Powermat does not make inductive charging products for the Atrix, Thunderbolt, or Evo3D.
    I agree w/you & I think it should be in green simply because it is a feature better than what the other phones have. I don't think anyone argues that point, especially as we get the software for the new devices to be used while the phone is docked. NO ONE else does this and it is one of the advantages of the Pre phone line. It may not make a difference to some, but it is an advantage & selling point of the Pre phone line.
  11. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by cwgtex View Post
    So yes, I would say that the Smartcover is both a feature and an accessory of the iPad2.
    Well with that I'll say we simply disagree, but at least you'r consistent in applying your determination of things so I won't question it as anything more than differing opinions.
  12. cwgtex's Avatar
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    #112  
    I just noticed that dimensions and volume for the Pre2 and Atrix are off by a bit. Here, I'll just make my own chart that has all correct information as best as I can determine.

    Last edited by cwgtex; 03/25/2011 at 08:56 PM.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    cwgtex, so would you say the Smartcover is a feature of an accessory of the iPad2? I'm wanting to understand your point with potentially some internal consistency here.
    Actually, if you watch Apple's intro video tot eh iPad 2 they clearly think it is a feature. And I agree that it is a feature, just not an included feature. But lets put it think way. My TV has a feature called HD. Maybe you have heard of that feature on TV's before? Well, I have to pay for high cable prices and I have to buy more equipment to use that feature. Is that a feature of my TV then? Walk into a TV store and see if the salesman uses it.

    Now to compare, go to Sprint and see if a salesman tries to sell you an EVO 4G and use the powermat as a feature to convince you to try to get that phone.

    See? But your right, it is not an included feature.
  14. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #114  
    I don't fully agree with your chart either and think you're also being a bit biased.

    For example, there are specifically 3 tiers of RAM listed there...512, 768, and 1024. If 1024 is green the 512 should be red as its a full two steps lower than the highest. Especially when you used this same standard to mark the Evo3D red for RAM (between 4, 8, and 16)

    I also think you should separate, like the other chart, Cores and Clock Speed. I agree with making the clock speed on the Pre3 green. However, the others should get greens for having dual core.

    Other than that, I think your chart looks good.
  15. cwgtex's Avatar
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    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well with that I'll say we simply disagree, but at least you'r consistent in applying your determination of things so I won't question it as anything more than differing opinions.
    How about this compromise then: the physical chargers are accessories, but the hardware and software integration on the phone itself is a feature.

    On the chart, I had them that way previously for a reason, but you are technically correct, so I updated it.

    512MB is enough RAM that I've never had a TMC error on my Pre2. Therefore I don't see it as a disadvantage. I'll separate the cores and clock speed when the Android OS and apps are updated to take advantage of two cores.
    Last edited by cwgtex; 03/25/2011 at 09:21 PM.
  16. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Actually, if you watch Apple's intro video tot eh iPad 2 they clearly think it is a feature. And I agree that it is a feature, just not an included feature. But lets put it think way. My TV has a feature called HD. Maybe you have heard of that feature on TV's before? Well, I have to pay for high cable prices and I have to buy more equipment to use that feature. Is that a feature of my TV then? Walk into a TV store and see if the salesman uses it.
    Cable hookups for your TV is not considered an "accessory", its considered a service akin to your mobile phone plan for a Pre. I wouldn't call a Sprint $99.99 simply everything plan an "accessory", its a service that one is expected to have to utilize your phone. It is a commonly accepted companion service.

    But even then, yes. Having HD capabilities is a FEATURE of a TV. Having the touchstone coils built in and exhibition mode built into the phone are FEATURES of the phone. Having it ready to be used with inductive charging is a feature of the phone. However the actual inductive charging is not a feature of the phone because it needs a separate bit of hardware to occur.

    A TV has HD Capabilities as a feature. But yes, to utilize that feature you need an accessory (Such as a blu-ray player) or a service (Such as HD cable).

    Now to compare, go to Sprint and see if a salesman tries to sell you an EVO 4G and use the powermat as a feature to convince you to try to get that phone. What the TV alone does not have is "HD Video playing" because by itself it can not play any form of HD video. It simply has a feature that is the ability to play HD video. Or "1080p" resolution in reality.

    The Pre had inductive charging coils. It does not have inductive charging. The Pre when paired with the additional accessory of a touchstone has inductive charging.

    I don't rightly care how Apple markets their things. Apple also marked that cut and paste didn't matter and multitasking was impossible without destroying battery life. The ability to use the smartcover and its integration with the software is a feature of the iPad. However the "smart cover" itself is not a feature of the ipad2. Its compatibility with it may be, but since it doesn't come with it to me you can't say the smart cover in and of itself is a feature.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by cwgtex View Post
    I just noticed that dimensions and volume for the Pre2 and Atrix are off by a bit. Here, I'll just make my own chart that has all correct information as best as I can determine.

    Your chart is good.
    Just call me Berd.
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    #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by cwgtex View Post
    How about this compromise then: the physical chargers are accessories, but the hardware and software integration on the phone itself is a feature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Having the touchstone coils built in and exhibition mode built into the phone are FEATURES of the phone. Having it ready to be used with inductive charging is a feature of the phone. However the actual inductive charging is not a feature of the phone because it needs a separate bit of hardware to occur.
    Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying.
  19. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by cwgtex View Post
    How about this compromise then: the physical chargers are accessories, but the hardware and software integration on the phone itself is a feature.
    That I agree with and like how you put it on the chart.

    512MB is enough RAM that I've never had a TMC error on my Pre2. Therefore I don't see it as a disadvantage. I'll separate the cores and clock speed when the Android OS and apps are updated to take advantage of two cores.
    By that basis of it being "Good enough" that its not a disadvantage, then the 4 GB of memory for the Evo 3D should probably not be red because with it coming with an 8 GB SD card 4 Gigs isn't a disadvantage. 4 GB is only really bad if its not expandable. When they're giving you 8 GB on top of that 4 GB right at purchase, to me I don't see how that's any more of a disadvantage than having RAM that's good enough for what's on the market not but not necessarily what may be on the market in a year from now is personally. It just seems inconsistent to ding the Evo3D for having the worse of 3 types of Storage but not ding the Pre's for having the worse of 3 types of RAM.
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    #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It just seems inconsistent to ding the Evo3D for having the worse of 3 types of Storage but not ding the Pre's for having the worse of 3 types of RAM.
    Very true, that's why I fixed it.

    I would really like to make webOS on the OS line green, but even I can admit that would be biased.
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