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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Isn't there a difference between "10+ hours of constant video for a test" vs
    "heavy use -- 3G and WiFi on, app testing (heavy work in GarageBand in particular), browsing, news reading, emailing, picture / video taking, and music listening" over 5 days? Why are you mixing the two? The thing also had about a month of standby time. No matter how you look at it, the batter life is pretty impressive on this thing.
    Taharka;

    We'll see about the battery life once its in the user's hands for a while... this would be a HUGE engineering accomplishment for Apple if they can live up to that 10 hour claim, while reducing the thickness of the device, and adding functionality. Seriously "huge".

    Im not saying it won't happen - I'm hoping that it does, actually, because, again, that is a benchmark for thier competitors to match, and then we all win, but, at this point, we still have to have an open mind to see what the real situation is, in that regard.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

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       #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Isn't there a difference between

    "10+ hours of constant video for a test"

    vs

    "heavy use -- 3G and WiFi on, app testing (heavy work in GarageBand in particular), browsing, news reading, emailing, picture / video taking, and music listening" over 5 days?

    Why are you mixing the two? The thing also had about a month of standby time. No matter how you look at it, the batter life is pretty impressive on this thing.
    Definitely! 3G AND WiFi on simultaneously, 24/7, for 5 days! Definitely impressive. But was it 24/7? But granted, 5 days usage without charge is excellent...

    The only heartbreaking thing (for me personally)...is we can't compare what the Touchpad would do at this time...
  3. nyallj's Avatar
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       #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Calm down - the OS was still in Alpha when that was done.

    See my post above about speed and performance - I believe HP and Ruby probably know the bar they have to perform to, just to be able to compete.
    I'm also pretty certain there were a number of apps running already, not so? We can't be sure how many.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    I'm also pretty certain there were a number of apps running already, not so? We can't be sure how many.
    Yes, there were, in almost all of the videos I saw, but, unless its over 10 really heavy apps, WebOS had better be crisp, responsive and smooth with no lags - however, this was, most definitely, in Alpha, so, there was likely a whole lot of code that either wasnt included/implemented/optimized yet - so, therefore, judging the device performance at that stage is, I believe, going to be very misleading and not even close to what the final release version "should" perform like.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Taharka;

    We'll see about the battery life once its in the user's hands for a while... this would be a HUGE engineering accomplishment for Apple if they can live up to that 10 hour claim, while reducing the thickness of the device, and adding functionality. Seriously "huge".

    Im not saying it won't happen - I'm hoping that it does, actually, because, again, that is a benchmark for thier competitors to match, and then we all win, but, at this point, we still have to have an open mind to see what the real situation is, in that regard.
    According to the reports from current iPad owners, it really does last that long. I thought that was impressive because manufacturers (all of them) usually base these numbers on very controlled situations. I was surprised when real world use came extremely close to the stated numbers. Let's see if iPad 2 does the same.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    According to the reports from current iPad owners, it really does last that long. I thought that was impressive because manufacturers (all of them) usually base these numbers on very controlled situations. I was surprised when real world use came extremely close to the stated numbers. Let's see if iPad 2 does the same.
    I think it has been reported, and is true in my case, that this is one area in which they underpromised.

    10 hours, unlike most battery speculation, feels more like the minimum. 12 hours is not unreasonable on the iPad.

    It is the single most compelling reason for me to pick up and go with this thing, over a laptop or really any device. It just always has a charge, as long as I plug it in every 3-4 days (when its hovering around 40-50%, I never ever even consider the battery life).
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    According to the reports from current iPad owners, it really does last that long. I thought that was impressive because manufacturers (all of them) usually base these numbers on very controlled situations. I was surprised when real world use came extremely close to the stated numbers. Let's see if iPad 2 does the same.
    Taharka;

    Current iPads arent the topic, but I do know that the iPad1 's battery life is very good.

    Its the iPad2 that is the real engineering marvel, or possibly so.

    By reducing the thickness and adding a faster processor, with 2 more cameras, and an HDMI out capability, there is MORE demand for power which, for a battery of the same size as its predesssor, should decrease battery life- if they found a way to keep that battery the same size, or even smaller in the iPad2, and get the same battery life..

    Well, that's just plain impressive engineering, period, and they deserve big kudos.

    We'll find out when it hits the streets and the consumers use/abuse it for a month or so.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    According to the reports from current iPad owners, it really does last that long. I thought that was impressive because manufacturers (all of them) usually base these numbers on very controlled situations. I was surprised when real world use came extremely close to the stated numbers. Let's see if iPad 2 does the same.
    Well the TPad's battery is 200mAh larger than the iPad2's battery. (6300mAh versus 6000mAh I saw on a comp chart) Add to that the QC8060 chip controls the cores power individually which is a function that webOS devices have not had before. Since Apples Ax series chips are proprietary, no one knows what kind of cpu scaling is employed internally but based on other cpu & SoC experience, it has to be very aggressive, but then the OS is never doing anything intensive.


    As for finngirl's assertion that the "true multitasking" didn't matter to the public in 2009...when did the public EVER see it? Name me one mainstream source that effectively showed the multitasking? Hell they never showed the Pre GAMING in the public eye and people still ask if I have an Android phone when they catch me playing a game in line or wherever. They are usually surprised when I tell them it's the Palm Pre.


    Proof of webOS multitasking superiority over iOS is a little game I play with colleagues during lunch I call the "Super Task Challenge". It really ****es iPhone users off!

    The Rules:

    *You need two helpers that can text and email mobile, a Pre, and an iPhone (the contestants)

    The goal is for the contestants to start a game and finish the level while getting several "multitasking" requests from the helpers.

    1. Start the game and play the same level (Need for Speed, Asphalt5, Angry Birds what ever, as long as both have it)
    2. Helpers send both a text asking to email some information from the web.
    3. Contestants will open the text and get the information to look up.
    4. Google the information.
    5. Copy it into a new email to the helper and send
    6. Reply to the text stating the email is sent.
    7. Finish the level of the game.
    8. First one done wins.

    Pre has won 100% of probably 18 or 19 rematches and it amazes everyone at the table and really cheeses off the iUsers. It's great! I "sold" 3 Pre's to others who were very impressed with the Pre and still are.

    But I digress....
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I don't see how one can tout the practicality of a device that has so little app and peripheral support compared to the alternative. For most people it will be the apps that determine the usefulness of the device beyond web browsing, reading, media consumption and email. Where's the practicality in buying a device only to find an indefinite wait for apps while it depreciates in value about 50% each year?
    And of course, we don't know what the app and peripheral support will consist of, until it's out.

    On the other hand, we do know that there is no BT keyboard support for iPad, no USB support, etc etc. At least those peripheral support features are currently planned for the TP.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    If that's all you want to ever do with your tablet then then probably most any tablet will probably do just fine.
    It would almost appear you are on a mission to convince him he doesn't want the device that he obviously does. Wonder why that is...
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by IcerC View Post
    Lost all credibility right there.

    Ipads and ipad2s can properly multitask with Apps running at the same time and get better battery life and faster performance.

    Heck, the switching is faster in ipad too with the lack of the gesture area and one application or stack on screen at a time on touchpad
    Only if the application is designed to "multi-task". Most are not. That is what he means by "proper multi-tasking". Yes, real multi-tasking is harder on battery life, that's the trade off. You use a kludge, but you get better battery life.

    That said, while we're on the subject of "losing all credibility", how can you possibly say the iPad's battery life and performance are better, when you've yet to see either battery life or performance on the TouchPad?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    If you look at my list of what I want to do with the Touchpad in my post immediately above, you will see that THERE EXISTS RIGHT NOW apps to do that, and THOSE SAME APPS WILL WORK (probably better too) on the Touchpad when it does come out.
    I ask you, what more would I (and I'm sure, the majority of people) want to do with a Tablet?
    True. Even Apple has data that the majority of iPad users never download apps. If you want tons of apps go with the iPad. If you want seamless multitasking and notifications, go with the Touchpad.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Well the TPad's battery is 200mAh larger than the iPad2's battery. (6300mAh versus 6000mAh I saw on a comp chart) Add to that the QC8060 chip controls the cores power individually which is a function that webOS devices have not had before. Since Apples Ax series chips are proprietary, no one knows what kind of cpu scaling is employed internally but based on other cpu & SoC experience, it has to be very aggressive, but then the OS is never doing anything intensive.


    As for finngirl's assertion that the "true multitasking" didn't matter to the public in 2009...when did the public EVER see it? Name me one mainstream source that effectively showed the multitasking? Hell they never showed the Pre GAMING in the public eye and people still ask if I have an Android phone when they catch me playing a game in line or wherever. They are usually surprised when I tell them it's the Palm Pre.


    Proof of webOS multitasking superiority over iOS is a little game I play with colleagues during lunch I call the "Super Task Challenge". It really ****es iPhone users off!

    The Rules:

    *You need two helpers that can text and email mobile, a Pre, and an iPhone (the contestants)

    The goal is for the contestants to start a game and finish the level while getting several "multitasking" requests from the helpers.

    1. Start the game and play the same level (Need for Speed, Asphalt5, Angry Birds what ever, as long as both have it)
    2. Helpers send both a text asking to email some information from the web.
    3. Contestants will open the text and get the information to look up.
    4. Google the information.
    5. Copy it into a new email to the helper and send
    6. Reply to the text stating the email is sent.
    7. Finish the level of the game.
    8. First one done wins.

    Pre has won 100% of probably 18 or 19 rematches and it amazes everyone at the table and really cheeses off the iUsers. It's great! I "sold" 3 Pre's to others who were very impressed with the Pre and still are.

    But I digress....

    Like I said, upthread, have fun selling that scenario to the average user.

    Multitasking, as you describe, comes at a cost. You don't disagree with that, do you?
    What are you willing to give up for that?

    Few people have found that to be a compelling argument when faced with stability, battery life, apps, etc.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    That is a very valid point indeed. But, without proper multitasking, can the ipadx AFFORD NOT to be responsive? I think I'd be willing to sacrifice a couple microseconds of lag (mind you, when the Touchpad does come out, it MAY or MAY NOT lag) to be able to have my email, browser, e-book, chat, text/phone, photo viewer/editor, video chat, ALL running at once, just like they are right now with my laptop (cumbersome, but powerful...but that is not under discussion here - I can't include the 3D editing programme in the list, but would have loved to)...

    Wouldn't you?

    Edit :- so sorry, text/phone not on the laptop...LOL, but won't that be nice if next year when HP integrates webOS with the laptops we are able to do that?
    When I'm at home I would love to be able to receive and respond to the Pre 3's text messages on my desktop or Touchpad! Now that's a convincing use case scenario.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    and THAT, my friend, is the mostly the point...
    Plus my iPad now lags (sometimes badly) when switching between apps. Definitely not an elegant multitasker.
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       #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Like I said, upthread, have fun selling that scenario to the average user.

    Multitasking, as you describe, comes at a cost. You don't disagree with that, do you?
    What are you willing to give up for that?

    Few people have found that to be a compelling argument when faced with stability, battery life, apps, etc.
    ahhh...but STABLE, the ipad2 isn't...see the review yourself...65000 apps!...will I actually use them?
  17. #57  
    Er, iPad 2 is unstable now?
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    On the other hand, we do know that there is no BT keyboard support for iPad, no USB support, etc etc. At least those peripheral support features are currently planned for the TP.
    You just blew my mind.

    Bluetooth keyboard has been supported since the very first day the iPad 1 hit shelves. Also, USB support is added through the camera connection kit (can be purchased for $29) which allows you to do things such as this:



    It gives you a USB port and SD card slot.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Like I said, upthread, have fun selling that scenario to the average user.

    Multitasking, as you describe, comes at a cost. You don't disagree with that, do you?
    What are you willing to give up for that?

    Few people have found that to be a compelling argument when faced with stability, battery life, apps, etc.
    I did. Did you not just read me telling you that a table with 20 some-odd people were easily impressed by the multitasking prowess of the Pre as I shamed iPhone users repeatedly?

    Palm (or HP so far) has NEVER shown this to the public. The commercial practically writs itself:

    -Pre and iPhone side by side performing multiple tasks
    -Swipe, swipe, swipe swipe....Pre is done.
    -Tap, tap-tap, tap, tap, tap, tap-tap-tap, tap, tap...iPhone still going as commercial fades out after tag line.

    Consumer, "Gee those webOS phone are really easy to use for many tasks", "Yeah, that's so easy without all the tapping."

    Heck the #1 Cydia jb of all time is that "super backgrounder" with the MULTITASKING CARDS!! Tell me, if this is SO USELESS and unimportant, how can it be the most downloaded jail break function??
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    I did. Did you not just read me telling you that a table with 20 some-odd people were easily impressed by the multitasking prowess of the Pre as I shamed iPhone users repeatedly?

    Palm (or HP so far) has NEVER shown this to the public. The commercial practically writs itself:

    -Pre and iPhone side by side performing multiple tasks
    -Swipe, swipe, swipe swipe....Pre is done.
    -Tap, tap-tap, tap, tap, tap, tap-tap-tap, tap, tap...iPhone still going as commercial fades out after tag line.

    Consumer, "Gee those webOS phone are really easy to use for many tasks", "Yeah, that's so easy without all the tapping."

    Heck the #1 Cydia jb of all time is that "super backgrounder" with the MULTITASKING CARDS!! Tell me, if this is SO USELESS and unimportant, how can it be the most downloaded jail break function??
    That may be a compelling argument to the iPhone user that does go tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-tap but I'd wager a bet on the difficulty of finding many that use their iPhone in that sort of regularity.
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