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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    What I find most bewildering here are those that are salivating over the possibility of a dual-booting webOS/Windows device. I just don't get it? If someone here could please enlighten me as to why this would be a great thing and deliver a superior user experience.
    Let me guess - you're salivating over the iOS-ification of Mac and can't wait for the day when the iMac finally comes standard with a touch panel and OS 10.8 "some feline they haven't used yet", which looks and feels exactly like iOS.

    I'm not sure about the relative merits of dual-booting over a webOS interface overlay superimposed on Windows, but what I'm sure about is that I'd prefer the option of touch navigation over being forced to use a mouse or, even worse, a touchpad (I'll never understand why HP chose to use a generic name for something found under the spacebar of a laptop computer as their tablet's name.)

    Whether it bewilders you or not, the fact is that simple touch interfaces are the future of personal computing, and were the future of personal computers even before Apple made their first touchscreen phone, which no matter what people want to believe was not the first touchscreen phone at all. I had a touchscreen phone in 2005. Friends of mine had one in 2003.
    The iPhone actually was the first capacitive touchscreen phone, which gave it a bump in usability over existing resistive touchscreens, but it merely predated other capacitive screens by a few months - and once again, if Apple improves existing technology it's a revolution, if someone else improves existing technology they're boring me-toos.

    What bewilders me is how many people are writing that it would negatively affect usability if the user had to move their hand away from the keyboard in order to navigate the UI on a desktop computer -- presumably moving their right hand from keyboard to mouse to keyboard to mouse twenty times while writing it.

    As a matter of course, if HP (or any other manufacturer for that matter) "invents" a PC like that first, people will largely ignore it and a minority will actively make fun of it until the day Apple comes up with it, at which point it'll be the best thing since sliced bread, and previous incarnations of the technology will be laughed out of the house as terrible failures.
    Just look at the tripe people are writing about video telephony now. "Yes, it existed before Apple "invented" it, but who wanted to use it before Apple came around? Apple were the first to make the technology usable, so they might as well be credited with really inventing it"
    (Current TouchSmart PCs don't count in my opinion because once you're out of their TouchSmart splashtop, you're using vanilla Windows, which sucks for touch navigation. In order to count, a PC would have to offer a consistent touch interface no matter what you want to do.)

    So if Apple "invents" a PC like that first, it's going to be brilliant and another sign proving that Steve Jobs is, in fact, the second coming of the Christ. Any manufacturer who releases a PC like that later is only going to be a visionless copycat trying to rip off Apple with a boring me-too device.

    I'll be laughing so hard I'll cry.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    You should never have to explain to a tablet user why they would want to boot the device into one mode or the other. If I hand my tablet to a child, my mom, or my grandmother, they should be able to quickly find what they want to use.
    From what I recall, the interviews that have been published with HP execs don't point towards a dual boot situation. They were talking about including the webOS framework with the PCs that are shipped so that webOS apps can run along with normal win32 apps.
  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Let me guess - you're salivating over the iOS-ification of Mac and can't wait for the day when the iMac finally comes standard with a touch panel and OS 10.8 "some feline they haven't used yet", which looks and feels exactly like iOS.
    Actually, no. I couldn't imagine a device like my iMac or Macbook Air being touch-driven.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    What bewilders me is how many people are writing that it would negatively affect usability if the user had to move their hand away from the keyboard in order to navigate the UI on a desktop computer -- presumably moving their right hand from keyboard to mouse to keyboard to mouse twenty times while writing it.
    Moving your hand mouse <--> keyboard is quite different than moving from your touch screen to an input device. It feels awkward and cumbersome. (I know because I often use a bluetooth keyboard with the iPad when I write a lot).

    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    As a matter of course, if HP (or any other manufacturer for that matter) "invents" a PC like that first, people will largely ignore it and a minority will actively make fun of it until the day Apple comes up with it, at which point it'll be the best thing since sliced bread, and previous incarnations of the technology will be laughed out of the house as terrible failures.
    That's quite possible, but the question would be: who did it best?

    You make the connection between resistive and capacitive touch screens above; I wonder how a vast majority would feel going back to or using a resistive touch screen device for the first time after using a capacitive screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Just look at the tripe people are writing about video telephony now. "Yes, it existed before Apple "invented" it, but who wanted to use it before Apple came around? Apple were the first to make the technology usable, so they might as well be credited with really inventing it"
    The only people that make those claims are those like you. I don't believe (and please, prove me wrong if I am) Apple ever laid claim to creating video telephony.

    What they did do was create a solution that's usable by the lowest denominator. A service that's usable by grandmothers without hassle and explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    (Current TouchSmart PCs don't count in my opinion because once you're out of their TouchSmart splashtop, you're using vanilla Windows, which sucks for touch navigation. In order to count, a PC would have to offer a consistent touch interface no matter what you want to do.)

    So if Apple "invents" a PC like that first, it's going to be brilliant and another sign proving that Steve Jobs is, in fact, the second coming of the Christ. Any manufacturer who releases a PC like that later is only going to be a visionless copycat trying to rip off Apple with a boring me-too device.

    I'll be laughing so hard I'll cry.
    Is there a difference between say HP taking vanilla Windows and slapping it on a touch device and calling it a day and Apple modifying their desktop OS to be used by a touch device?
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    From what I recall, the interviews that have been published with HP execs don't point towards a dual boot situation. They were talking about including the webOS framework with the PCs that are shipped so that webOS apps can run along with normal win32 apps.
    If the translations were right, at the HPworld event in Singapore, WebOS on PCs was explained as being a bolt-on to windows that would be used for media synch between windows devices and phones and tablets.
  5. #45  
    Is there no Cross-market category anymore?

    I am very conscious usually when commenting if its Mac specific (since nearly every conversation of the TouchPad brings up the iPad in someway) that I am in the Cross-market category.

    Since that category seems to have been eliminated, I guess the other two topics in "Other Handhelds" are where this discussion is to occur?
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Let me guess - you're salivating over the iOS-ification of Mac and can't wait for the day when the iMac finally comes standard with a touch panel and OS 10.8 "some feline they haven't used yet", which looks and feels exactly like iOS.

    I'm not sure about the relative merits of dual-booting over a webOS interface overlay superimposed on Windows, but what I'm sure about is that I'd prefer the option of touch navigation over being forced to use a mouse or, even worse, a touchpad (I'll never understand why HP chose to use a generic name for something found under the spacebar of a laptop computer as their tablet's name.)

    Whether it bewilders you or not, the fact is that simple touch interfaces are the future of personal computing, and were the future of personal computers even before Apple made their first touchscreen phone, which no matter what people want to believe was not the first touchscreen phone at all. I had a touchscreen phone in 2005. Friends of mine had one in 2003.
    The iPhone actually was the first capacitive touchscreen phone, which gave it a bump in usability over existing resistive touchscreens, but it merely predated other capacitive screens by a few months - and once again, if Apple improves existing technology it's a revolution, if someone else improves existing technology they're boring me-toos.

    What bewilders me is how many people are writing that it would negatively affect usability if the user had to move their hand away from the keyboard in order to navigate the UI on a desktop computer -- presumably moving their right hand from keyboard to mouse to keyboard to mouse twenty times while writing it.

    As a matter of course, if HP (or any other manufacturer for that matter) "invents" a PC like that first, people will largely ignore it and a minority will actively make fun of it until the day Apple comes up with it, at which point it'll be the best thing since sliced bread, and previous incarnations of the technology will be laughed out of the house as terrible failures.
    Just look at the tripe people are writing about video telephony now. "Yes, it existed before Apple "invented" it, but who wanted to use it before Apple came around? Apple were the first to make the technology usable, so they might as well be credited with really inventing it"
    (Current TouchSmart PCs don't count in my opinion because once you're out of their TouchSmart splashtop, you're using vanilla Windows, which sucks for touch navigation. In order to count, a PC would have to offer a consistent touch interface no matter what you want to do.)


    So if Apple "invents" a PC like that first, it's going to be brilliant and another sign proving that Steve Jobs is, in fact, the second coming of the Christ. Any manufacturer who releases a PC like that later is only going to be a visionless copycat trying to rip off Apple with a boring me-too device.

    I'll be laughing so hard I'll cry.
    I agree, but I think what Apple does differently is that they design the products with the end result in mind. Sure tablets were available years ago, but they were afterthoughts. 'Hey, let's put a touch screen on this laptop and call it a tablet PC.' When Apple designed their tab (I'm not a fan of it personally) they could have done the same thing and just through Snow Leopard on it, but they knew it would not be as usable.

    I'm not a fan of iOS but I think that Apple is a company that is willing to wait until they have a product they are happy with, whereas other companies just 'push' products out the door.

    Why would Samsung release a tab knowing full well that a tab version of Android was coming out in a few months? Because they weren't thinking about the user experience, they were thinking about doing whatever they could to sell products (release before the holidays).
  7. #47  
    I have a suspicion they're trying to get some people to move to the other platform forums since they're no longer webOS fans. But those other forums are just lacking something IMO. I even use the old Treocentral because it's nostalgic.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #48  
    Personally I only visit most forums when I have a forum specific question. which is how I ended up at this site (launch day Pre).

    But I hang at several tech sites because I like to talk about tech and see what is coming out. By definition, that puts me in the "other hand helds" category -- which is fine. I am not a troll but I have no interest in reading about how a user is having a problem with a particular piece of their Pre.

    It would be a shame if the forum direction is to eliminate discussion of other products in the context of HP's.

    In fact, one has to wonder if HP, and Palm prior to that, themselves have done that to their detriment.
  9. #49  
    He's right, it's a spec bump. That isn't stopping people from selling the old to buy the new. Speed, thinness and improved graphics likely have something to do with it, plus the fact that it's almost out. It also isn't stopping those who waited until the better iPad came along. Also the articles mentioned that even though it's a smaller bump than people wanted(high resolution screen mainly), some of the writers will still be getting one(CNET for one).
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Is there no Cross-market category anymore? ...
    No, this is it.

    We for whatever reason had ended up with two forums that did exactly the same thing, talk about other devices. They were consolidated because we often ended up with the same article linked twice.

    All of the threads were merged into this one forum you are now in. Check the stickies at the top. All of my comparisons and everything else is right there.
  11. #51  
    Please be careful or this thread will end up locked too.

    There's been far too many locked up threads these days. This has to be a first.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12.    #52  
    iPad 2 review -- Engadget

    iPad 2 isn't just the best tablet on the market, it feels like the only tablet on the market
    This review comes from Joshua Topolsky who's known to be a large webOS proponent.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I'd be more included to purchase something that was designed by Palm than HP. In my opinion HP has created nothing that compares to Apple in regards to hardware design, except for maybe the Envy which was a direct ripoff of the Macbook Pro.
    HP has created a lot of nice hardware and the new Envy line is even better. Of course this is opinion but it's what I believe ...

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Actually, no. I couldn't imagine a device like my iMac or Macbook Air being touch-driven.
    Have you heard of Mac OS X Lion? Just wondering ...

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    iPad 2 review -- Engadget

    This review comes from Joshua Topolsky who's known to be a large webOS proponent.
    Considering the TouchPad is not on the market yet and all the other tablets on the market are Android I am not surprised to hear that, actually.

    And about the TouchPad being redesigned for TP2 and going away from Palm is not surprising. They clearly don't have enough time to develop the hardware and software and need some help. Pumping engineers into Palm's R&D didn't do the job so maybe bringing it to another division will help. I mean the TouchPad being released in the Summer 2011 is not surprising, since it probably started development in Summer 2010. But since we are sure the Pre 3 started it's life before Summer 2010 and STILL isn't ready just proves Palm needs some help.

    About the iPad 2, I mean it's a great device but I believe that review said it's not so great that iPad 1 owners shouldn't need to upgrade. And when I hear the camera's aren't that great in quality yet thats a big new feature, and I see they have not yet changed the notification system yet just tells me the iPad 2 -- although the best tablet on the market and is head and heals over the Xoom and other Android tablets -- is not a huge leap forward. I say this because Apple didn't focus on complaints that the first iPad owners want improved. They did add facetime support, but the notifications system is something that should have been improved.

    Anyway, thats my two cents.
  14. #54  
    I've been playing with Lion and while Apple's expanded on the multitouch gestures, I wouldn't really call it a touch-driven OS. It's there if you want to use it but using a standard mouse is fine too.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I've been playing with Lion and while Apple's expanded on the multitouch gestures, I wouldn't really call it a touch-driven OS. It's there if you want to use it but using a standard mouse is fine too.
    True, it is not touch driven but like you said -- it's there. I heard there were gestures for certain actions. The point is ... it's there and if HP does it right, WebOS on a laptop could be cool.
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