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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post



    I agree with this. It's kinda like my GI Joe's and Castle Grey Skull/HE-MAN stuff in the 80's... many an expendable GI Joe met his doom at the paws of Battle Cat...
    Although I remember those, I'm lost about the analogy, lol. I was just trying to say that they care about their main business more. Their bread and butter isn't Palm products. They seem to not take the smartphone world seriously, but they never did. The last successful HP phone was the one that was WM5 and had a pretty good keyboard, but that was years ago. They haven't had a hot phone since. It's like their camera line was, mediocre.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. DCForever's Avatar
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    #22  
    I don't think people realize that it takes time to build apps. They don't just appear. The Xoom just got launched. It doesn't have any apps since the SDK just got launched. Last year, the iPad was announced on January 27 and shipped April 3rd in the US. A little over 2 months for normal devs to get their hands on it. Why so that people get get used to the SDK which except for some new UI elements is very close to then current iOS SDK so not a huge learning curve which is why not as much time was needed. Not a huge amount to learn except for layout your UI for a tablet screen. They had about 3000 iPad apps/versions at launch.

    HP basically had to do what they did so that people have time to build apps. New framework which is not finished which should speed development, but still new. As I see it, they could have launched like the Xoom, rushed and no apps, or like last years iPad. A wait till launch, but with more apps.

    Of course, if they launch after all this time and still few Touchpad specfic apps, then I think they should have just done a Xoom type launch.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by DCForever View Post
    I don't think people realize that it takes time to build apps. They don't just appear.
    I think people realize that. They just don't want to wait for apps that may or may not come when there's something real, viable, and arguably better available right now.
  4. #24  
    "Apple wins this round but... the war isn't over!!!!"

    -xoom, touchpad, playbook

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  5. #25  
    I must say as a webos lover.I didn't think the ipad2 was going to annoinve much.And they didn't,but the launch date impressed me.I hope its not true that hp doesn't care much about phones or webos.Hp have a weapon(WebOS) that they don't know how to use/fire,reload,clean,etc.No hdmi out?Not acceptable,and what about the plastic casing?.
  6. #26  
    The release dates definitely make for a bad comparison, Even worse, though, is the demos after the event. HP brought the press together for a two hour presentation, after which, they forbad the press to touch the device. It was a hands-off demonstration. Even with that precaution in place, the demos were still not very flattering.

    Apple holds an event and invites the press to handle their offering as much as they like to get a good impression of what it is like to use. Everything is working fast and smooth. There are no missing features, no question marks. From one event, the press walks away frustrated and without much good to write about. From the other event, the press did the job they came to do, had fun, and makes arrangements to get in line in nine days. How's that for a comparison?
  7. tirk's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by IcerC View Post
    "Apple wins this round but... the war isn't over!!!!"
    You do realise that sounds like Muammar Gaddafi don't you?

    HP bought WebOS to jump start it's tablet (do we have to call it "pad" now?) business. Given what HP have managed in a year on that score, how well does it bode for their, presumably lower priority, smartphone business?
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    they don't really care about Palm as much as they'd like you to think. This is being handled like some side business by them.
    It is a side business. look at what percentage of earnings comes from webos, a cell phone, a tablet. right now it's nothing. even best case scenario it would be a small part of a larger whole. its' always been a side business. And short of having phones and tablets that match ipad sales figures its still only going to be a small percentage.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by DCForever View Post
    I don't think people realize that it takes time to build apps. They don't just appear. The Xoom just got launched. It doesn't have any apps since the SDK just got launched. Last year, the iPad was announced on January 27 and shipped April 3rd in the US. A little over 2 months for normal devs to get their hands on it. Why so that people get get used to the SDK which except for some new UI elements is very close to then current iOS SDK so not a huge learning curve which is why not as much time was needed. Not a huge amount to learn except for layout your UI for a tablet screen. They had about 3000 iPad apps/versions at launch.

    it may take time but somehow in a few months microsoft passed webos.

    apple can launch w/o apps cause they where first and best.

    They can't continue to be second, third or last to market and expect people to wait for you to catch up to speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I think people realize that. They just don't want to wait for apps that may or may not come when there's something real, viable, and arguably better available right now.
    it's been what a year and a half already of waiting through all those days when the "flood of apps" would come. They still haven't. I just think they don't get that.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 03/03/2011 at 03:38 AM.
  10. #30  
    The amount of unthinking rage-ranting in this type of thread amazes me.

    When to announce is not a clearcut decision. There ups and down to both alternatives. Apple is free to do what they do atm because they are in the lead for now. The press is producing free buzz and speculate wildly without any real input from Apple. That only works if you already have everybody's attention.

    Given that the devices aren't ready before spring for just the Veer or summer for the rest HPalm had a choice between being silent for another half year or do what they did and announce the around CES time.

    Sure coming from nowhere in summer would have been a surprise and beig able to by the stuff right away afterwards is nice - but the time when you can buy them is the same.

    So the only difference is when do we know about them. And there are clear advantages for announcing early.
    First - everybody expects big announcements at CES. Not doing so creates the impression that you're dead and irrelevant. Doing their own event in Feb was close enough and they did announce that before CES.

    Second they need dev mind share and keep as many current customers as possible. Not saying anything before summer would have meant loosing far more of both.

    In fact announcing early is so effective a strategy that tech firms used to announce stuff much much earlier and then not even bother to bring it out at all (see vapor ware). It keeps customers waiting for that fabled future tech instead of going to the competition now.

    In short the facts are that announcing months in advance is neither fail nor win. There's arguments for both and particular circumstances determine the better alternative for a particular situation.

    In this case I believe HPalm made the right decision not to wait until summer.

    3% market share is better than 0.3%. And any percentage of people waiting for Touchpad/Pre3/Veer in a few months is better than not having those. And any dev now making plans and preparations for webos 2/3 devices now is better than devs starting in summer and perhaps then not bother at all anymore.

    On the plus side - all this ranting is a sign of passion for the platform. And many of those who rant now will for that reason either wait or come back when the devices actually ship. So - really not much of a fail here.
    The only fail was that Palm was already too close to irrelevantly small and resource strapped when it came up with webos. That was sad for Palm (lost independence) while good for HP (got shortcut into mobile).
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  11. cgk
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    #31  
    Second they need dev mind share and keep as many current customers as possible. Not saying anything before summer would have meant loosing far more of both.
    I think you are wrong about this - everything coming out of HP indicates that they simply don't care about current developers - who are mainly one-man bands and there are maybe a couple of thousand of.

    Current small WebOS developers were pretty much thrown to the wind.
  12. #32  
    No company spends billions to enter a business, simply to treat it as a 'side business'. They want return on their investment.

    HP is releasing the touchpad this summer because that's when the CAN get it done. If they would have released it 2 weeks after Feb9th, it would have been a beta project with no developer tools. If they waited 2 weeks before the summer release to announce it, we'd have to deal with whiny threads worse than this one all spring.... similar to the whining leading up to Feb9th because of all the unknowns.

    do you people really think either of those options would have been better than HP's current course?

    Ofcourse it would have been better if they were finished developing their webOS products by now, but they aren't, and their release schedule is governed by that. They can't just snap their fingers and get 3 months worth of development time completed over night.

    Yes, as we move into the future, HP will have to LEARN, to speed up their product cycles. Yes, Apple has perfected this concept throughout their YEARS OF EXPERIENCE in the mobile market. This is what we know. That said, is the continued whining really neccisary?
    Last edited by Mhunterjr; 03/03/2011 at 05:03 AM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I think you are wrong about this - everything coming out of HP indicates that they simply don't care about current developers - who are mainly one-man bands and there are maybe a couple of thousand of.

    Current small WebOS developers were pretty much thrown to the wind.
    I have seen nothing that indicates this.
    I think you misinterpret factual restraints and a botched handling of the we-wont-upgrade-old-devices-after-all announcement as an intentional strategy.

    Here's the money question: What could possibly be the reason behind such thinking? I assume that HP is profit oriented and wants to make money. From that standpoint it makes 0 sense to purposefully get rid of devs.

    Sometimes mistakes are made and things get botched. And of course they have to focus on some big name developers - because that's what customers most notice at first.
    But they also need the myriad individual and tiny company devs. Because that's how you get real numbers in the catalog.
    That's why they removed the 50$ dev fee. The big company devs don't worry for a nanosecond about paying 50$. But it's a little hurdle for entry devs.
    Ares is nothing if you an attempt to make entry for as many small devs as easy as possible.

    The rage is strong in you. ;-)
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    Yes, as we move into the future, HP will have to LEARN, to speed up their product cycles. Yes, Apple has perfected this concept throughout their YEARS OF EXPERIENCE in the mobile market. This is what we know. That said, is the continued whining really neccisary?
    They don't even have to get much faster. Part of the delay was Palms lack of resources followed by the aquisition.

    After this summer they just need to keep up with the contract upgrade rhythm that governs the mobile market.

    Apart from IPhone 1 and IPad 1 (and to a small degree IPhone 4) Apple has only released - what is otherwise here denounced - "spec bumps". Same form factor with various upgrades to CPU, storage, RAM and (once for IPhone 4) screen resolution.
    But being the cool lead for the moment Apple gets a free ride from the excited tech press that speculates for them all year about what's coming next. Half the time the speculations are outlandish and not even close to true (anybody remember the fancy zillion pixel resolution the IPad 2 was going to get *for sure*? :-) ) - but people just move on to the next speculation cycle.

    I have it from solid sources that IPad 3 and IPhone 6 will be merged into a single multi-dimensional quantum entanglement device. It can not only instant message your text - but also *you*. Forget face time - it'll be actual body time.

    ;-)
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    They don't even have to get much faster. Part of the delay was Palms lack of resources followed by the aquisition.

    After this summer they just need to keep up with the contract upgrade rhythm that governs the mobile market.

    Apart from IPhone 1 and IPad 1 (and to a small degree IPhone 4) Apple has only released - what is otherwise here denounced - "spec bumps". Same form factor with various upgrades to CPU, storage, RAM and (once for IPhone 4) screen resolution.
    But being the cool lead for the moment Apple gets a free ride from the excited tech press that speculates for them all year about what's coming next. Half the time the speculations are outlandish and not even close to true (anybody remember the fancy zillion pixel resolution the IPad 2 was going to get *for sure*? :-) ) - but people just move on to the next speculation cycle.

    I have it from solid sources that IPad 3 and IPhone 6 will be merged into a single multi-dimensional quantum entanglement device. It can not only instant message your text - but also *you*. Forget face time - it'll be actual body time.

    ;-)
    believe me, I agree with you whole heartedly. As a webOS fanatic myself, I understand the frustration, but people have to infuse some realism into their rants!

    from the time of the merger, HP essentially nixed a tablet project that was already underway, created a brand new business unit, moved 200 employees, revamped a mobile OS and development framework; all while playing the contract game. No easy task, and Apple had to deal with none of these challenges. We're comparing a well oiled machine to one that's still in the making... Smh
    Last edited by Mhunterjr; 03/03/2011 at 06:58 AM.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I think you are wrong about this - everything coming out of HP indicates that they simply don't care about current developers - who are mainly one-man bands and there are maybe a couple of thousand of.

    Current small WebOS developers were pretty much thrown to the wind.
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    But they also need the myriad individual and tiny company devs. Because that's how you get real numbers in the catalog.
    That's why they removed the 50$ dev fee. The big company devs don't worry for a nanosecond about paying 50$. But it's a little hurdle for entry devs.
    Ares is nothing if you an attempt to make entry for as many small devs as easy as possible.
    Sadly, not even "a couple thousand". There are only 1479 developers with apps in the device, beta or web catalogs. More than 30% of the apps are spam and come from just 10 developers. Seems the ones that are really taking advantage of the waived $50/app fee are the Brighthouse Labs of the App Catalog.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    from the time of the merger, HP essentially nixed a tablet project that was already underway, created a brand new business unit, moved 200 employees, revamped a mobile OS and development framework; all while playing the contract game. No easy task, and Apple had to deal with none of these challenges. We're comparing a well oiled machine to one that's still in the making... Smh
    The problem is, consumers don't care about all of that. They don't generally buy devices just to help a company out. They buy the products that they need/want when they need/want it. So if HP's challenges causes them to produce something that is months away from release or not comparable to what the consumer can pick up at the time, it's HP's problem, not the consumer's.
  18. aapold's Avatar
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    #38  
    hey and apple just announced a $100 refund if you bought an ipad recently. Despite the fact that 4.3 ios will work just fine on them.

    Meanwhile we still don't have anything concrete on how HP will "make it right" for owners of legacy webos devices that won't be getting updates.
  19. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I think you are wrong about this - everything coming out of HP indicates that they simply don't care about current developers - who are mainly one-man bands and there are maybe a couple of thousand of.

    Current small WebOS developers were pretty much thrown to the wind.
    They need a platform that can grab the largest swath of developers. The new development environment is better than the old.

    I think there is so much hand ringing on this forum that it's now comical. If HP would have announced in February and released in February, we'd see tons of threads of people *****ing about the lack of apps. The simple fact is, that some of you no matter what HP does will not be pleased because you're not going to purchase the products. You want an iPad. Which is great. I'm buying one as well. But, to try to transpose Apple and what their current environment is to HP is just daft. It would have been better for HP do launch and have everything ready as soon as possible. But, trying to meet some artificial timeline to make some people on the internet happy is going to hurt them in the long run.
  20. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by aapold View Post
    hey and apple just announced a $100 refund if you bought an ipad recently. Despite the fact that 4.3 ios will work just fine on them.

    Meanwhile we still don't have anything concrete on how HP will "make it right" for owners of legacy webos devices that won't be getting updates.

    That's because of the price drop and the purchaser is within the two-week return window. This isn't Apple being altruistic, it's Apple following their own return policy.

    But don't let facts get in the way of drinking all the kool-aid.
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