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  1.    #1  
    Rahul Sood, former founder of VooDooPC, formerly of HP, and now the Microsoft General Manager of System Experience had the following tweet yesterday:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul Sood va Twitter
    every executive in the pc industry should use an apple notebook. apple doesn't just design products, they designed their business & process
    As he is seems to be aware, it's not just about hardware performance and price. Interesting that he tweets this while still a Microsoft employee.
    Last edited by Kupe; 03/01/2011 at 08:08 AM.
  2. #2  
    Why didn't you post that in a Mac forum? Or a Microsoft forum?

    Oh, and how come you're always hating on webOS because of its relative lack of apps and relatively small userbase - and apparently cheering on Mac despite its relative lack of programs and relatively small userbase.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Why didn't you post that in a Mac forum? Or a Microsoft forum?

    Oh, and how come you're always hating on webOS because of its relative lack of apps and relatively small userbase - and apparently cheering on Mac despite its relative lack of programs and relatively small userbase.
    It's germane because everyone - including Palm/HP - is trying to figure out the "secret sauce" that makes Apple so successful. You can tick off marketing or rabid fans, but they don't fully account for their dominance in mobile computing.

    Also, there is no way you can equate OSX and WebOS with a straight face. And I'm a diehard Windows user who has never owned a Mac in my life and has no particular desire to change that. Still, the two are not comparable...even "relatively".
  4. #4  
    I was a diehard Windows users for many years (even MS-DOS user years back as well) and never understood why Mac fans were so rabid about OS X until 2 years ago, I was sick of being tech support for my family. Got our first Mac Book Pro 2 years ago and then I never looked back to Windows.

    The one comparison I can make is that the OS X UI is better than Windows and stability of the OS is definitely miles ahead of Windows (even Windows 7, though Windows 7 is probably the best Windows MSFT made). However, it is like webOS, unless you use it and understand the old Palm philosophy of simple but elegant design, you won't appreciate it. It is the same with OS X vs. Windows.

    I am forced to use Windows at work, but at home, I definitely enjoy and prefer using OS X.
  5. #5  
    I hate being tech support (and this is for extended family where I have to solve problems without even being able to see their screen!), but I don't really see any difference in the UI of either OS aside from one having a dock and the other having a Quick launch bar.

    You have some icons either on the desktop or launch bar. You click 'em. Programs open (well, in Windows, they open full screen). What's the difference?
  6. #6  
    <Moved> to the correct forum for cross platform chat. This quote is specific to Apple.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I hate being tech support (and this is for extended family where I have to solve problems without even being able to see their screen!), but I don't really see any difference in the UI of either OS aside from one having a dock and the other having a Quick launch bar.

    You have some icons either on the desktop or launch bar. You click 'em. Programs open (well, in Windows, they open full screen). What's the difference?
    Mac OS-X Windows don't waste as much screen real estate but the main app menu of the active application is across the top of the screen. The finder is much better at previewing file contents. X-Windows is built in which is great if you want to remotely access Unix or Linux machines (or run Linux/Unix applications). There are no stupid dog animations and the search feature is fast and works well.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I hate being tech support (and this is for extended family where I have to solve problems without even being able to see their screen!), but I don't really see any difference in the UI of either OS aside from one having a dock and the other having a Quick launch bar.

    You have some icons either on the desktop or launch bar. You click 'em. Programs open (well, in Windows, they open full screen). What's the difference?
    I really, really, really hate linking to Paul Thurott's stuff but he just published a piece on Lion that touches on some of the fundamental differences between the way Windows and OS X work.

    ...and I'd link you to it if his site wasn't 503ing at the moment.

    Yay, success - http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...OS-X-Lion.aspx

    And remember, when you look at modern desktop OSes like Windows and Mac OS X, finding out which apps are available on a given PC is surprisingly difficult. On Windows, you can find these apps pinned to the taskbar, pinned to the Start Menu, in the All Programs section of the Start Menu, and of course within the file system itself as well. That's a lot of ground to cover.
    I'm not sure if LaunchPad is what I want on my desktop but considering what a mess Finder is, I'll take it.
    Last edited by nappy; 03/01/2011 at 02:35 PM.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kewl 700p View Post
    I was a diehard Windows users for many years (even MS-DOS user years back as well) and never understood why Mac fans were so rabid about OS X until 2 years ago, I was sick of being tech support for my family. Got our first Mac Book Pro 2 years ago and then I never looked back to Windows.

    The one comparison I can make is that the OS X UI is better than Windows and stability of the OS is definitely miles ahead of Windows (even Windows 7, though Windows 7 is probably the best Windows MSFT made). However, it is like webOS, unless you use it and understand the old Palm philosophy of simple but elegant design, you won't appreciate it. It is the same with OS X vs. Windows.

    I am forced to use Windows at work, but at home, I definitely enjoy and prefer using OS X.
    This is very similar to my experience. Once I purchased my MBP there was no going back. When I'm forced to use windows at work I do find myself less productive. Never thought I'd fall into the Mac > Windows camp. Still, there are places where the Mac does not cut it. For my HTPC, it's Windows 7 because nothing on the Mac is even in the same ballpark. In the end, it boils down to me using the best OS for a specific use case. Day-to-Day it's Mac OS, HTPC it's Windows 7, some of my server stuff is linux. There is no one size fits all.
  10. #10  
    Huh...interesting. Maybe I'm not a power Windows user, but none of these things cited seem like problems to me. I know exactly how to find all of my installed programs. I don't see Windows as wasting real estate when I can control the size of the program from fullscreen to minimized. Search seems to work fine, even on XP.

    If all things were even, I might slap OSX on a machine I already have. Give it a whirl. But they aren't even, and I can't justify spending $1100 on a desktop that can't do anything a $500 one can't. The same goes for laptops.
  11. #11  
    I think there is an important part of what Rahul's was saying that wasn't posted in this thread:

    Sood referring to his former employer HP:

    “we could have done it — just need a few years of patience, and investment in our tooling/process. We really could have done it. […] ‎.. especially with webOS, what a combination that would have been.”

    source:
    http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/01/m...-should-use-a/
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Huh...interesting. Maybe I'm not a power Windows user, but none of these things cited seem like problems to me. I know exactly how to find all of my installed programs. I don't see Windows as wasting real estate when I can control the size of the program from fullscreen to minimized. Search seems to work fine, even on XP.

    If all things were even, I might slap OSX on a machine I already have. Give it a whirl. But they aren't even, and I can't justify spending $1100 on a desktop that can't do anything a $500 one can't. The same goes for laptops.
    It really is one of those "you have to use it to get it things". You are not really missing anything if windows works for you. It did for me for years. However, if you do try the Mac long enough to get over the muscle memory shock, you may find it difficult to go back to windows.

    Despite what people say, it's not perfect, you can crash it, you can get malware on it, but it does have 'nix quality stability with a very fluid UI. For me it's the best of both worlds. I get a very, VERY nice UI with the ability to drop into a 'nix type command line (BSD really) when I need to work at that level. Oh and the gestures open up a whole new world and feels more natural.

    The devices themselves are very solid. Top notch. Expensive yes, but I can honestly say that my MBP 17" is the best (the not perfect) computing devices I've used to date (and I've used/purchased/built/recommended quite a few in my time).

    This is one user's opinion.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I really, really, really hate linking to Paul Thurott's stuff but he just published a piece on Lion that touches on some of the fundamental differences between the way Windows and OS X work.

    ...and I'd link you to it if his site wasn't 503ing at the moment.

    Yay, success - http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...OS-X-Lion.aspx



    I'm not sure if LaunchPad is what I want on my desktop but considering what a mess Finder is, I'll take it.
    that's a pretty good article. i especially agree with simplified app launcher stuff.

    i have two windows computers, i've been on windows for about 15 years. before that i had apple computers all the way back to the apple II. So i used to use macs. i like windows but like all things there are flaws. but i hate app launching. i've gone from custom launcher bars to copying every shortcut, to deleting all folders in the start menu.

    but also i like the overarching premise of the article that lots of things have to be simplified to sell well. that may go against the utilitarianism of the techy community. something google's utilitarian interfaces have struggled with with android and are only recently tackling by making the icons look better and upcoming honeycomb builds that will likely find there way to phones. But the focus on the big picture user experience i think is good. I think apple is a great company and makes mostly great products but there's plenty of crap i hate about their hardware and software, like apple tv doesn't play lots of formats, their mouses suck, their keyboards have no key travel, itunes on windows looks good and is laid out well but is slow as hell and won't moniter my folders. i hate that in apple computers you can often move a file only to realize it was just a shortcut. like good luck finding the actual image file once it's in iphoto. hope you kept track of where it is. And as this article points out the crappy window managment in apple. That's for all of you who think praising one company equates to thinking they are perfect in all areas. They aren't. lol.

    i loathe being tech support too. interestingly it was the inability to fix my mac cheaply that led me to windows. Easy upgrade and wide availability of replacement parts is nice. But now i just tell my family, yeah i don't get macs anymore, buy a PC, and i could help you.

    regardless i think there is a ton to learn by what they do right. The attention to design and detail
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    I think there is an important part of what Rahul's was saying that wasn't posted in this thread:

    Sood referring to his former employer HP:

    “we could have done it — just need a few years of patience, and investment in our tooling/process. We really could have done it. […] ‎.. especially with webOS, what a combination that would have been.”

    source:
    Microsoft's Rahul Sood says every PC industry exec should use a MacBook -- Engadget
    Nobody on an Apple forum wants to hear that. Oh wait... where was I...?
    /sarcasm

    I'm sure the Apple fans are going to have something to negate what he says though. His comments are only appropriate when they are pro-Apple or anti-WebOS, haven't you noticed?
  15. #15  
    Gee Kupe;

    Can you be any more obvious with your parsing of this article as a "sound byte":

    Here's the meat from the source article on Conceivably Tech:

    “Every executive in the pc industry should use an apple notebook. Apple doesn’t just design products, they designed their business & process,” Sood wrote. My first reaction was wondering whether Sood’s desk would be cleared out this morning by the time he arrived for work. However, Sood’s comment was not a direct shot at Microsoft. It was criticism targeted at the PC industry, which just can’t duplicate the appeal of Mac notebooks and has failed to create unique and equally attractive computing devices over the past decade.

    Sood even referred to his former employer HP, about which he said “we could have done it — just need a few years of patience, and investment in our tooling/process. We really could have done it. […] ‎.. especially with webOS, what a combination that would have been.”

    It seems to me that he's saying that WebOS is good enough to put on a PC and make the software experience as good as an Apple product.

    Not that I agree, but, if that is his opinion, that's quite a statement about WebOS.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post

    The devices themselves are very solid. Top notch. Expensive yes, but I can honestly say that my MBP 17" is the best (the not perfect) computing devices I've used to date (and I've used/purchased/built/recommended quite a few in my time).

    This is one user's opinion.
    After looking around at a number of netbooks, I bought my wife the new Air. The hardware is really solid and impressive (important since she breaks everything), but I don't see anything in the software to make me want this over Windows.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    After looking around at a number of netbooks, I bought my wife the new Air. The hardware is really solid and impressive (important since she breaks everything), but I don't see anything in the software to make me want this over Windows.
    That's not surprising. That's why I said you have to use it. Make it your primary machine long enough her used to "the Mac way". Then see what happens.

    Having said that, it's not for everyone.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Gee Kupe;

    Can you be any more obvious with your parsing of this article as a "sound byte":

    Here's the meat from the source article on Conceivably Tech:

    “Every executive in the pc industry should use an apple notebook. Apple doesn’t just design products, they designed their business & process,” Sood wrote. My first reaction was wondering whether Sood’s desk would be cleared out this morning by the time he arrived for work. However, Sood’s comment was not a direct shot at Microsoft. It was criticism targeted at the PC industry, which just can’t duplicate the appeal of Mac notebooks and has failed to create unique and equally attractive computing devices over the past decade.

    Sood even referred to his former employer HP, about which he said “we could have done it — just need a few years of patience, and investment in our tooling/process. We really could have done it. […] ‎.. especially with webOS, what a combination that would have been.”

    It seems to me that he's saying that WebOS is good enough to put on a PC and make the software experience as good as an Apple product.

    Not that I agree, but, if that is his opinion, that's quite a statement about WebOS.
    You might want to re-think what you call a "source article." I simply quoted his original tweet (that's what I would refer to as source) not the more-than-a-day-later article you linked. You're referencing one of thousands of blogs that echoed and re-echoed his noteworthy tweet. Sood followed up hours (and days) later with some additional comments, including that woulda-shoulda-coulda tweet about HP's failings. Obviously the dogmatically-driven, engineer-centric mega-corporation known as Hewlett-Packard was hardly the fertile territory for a refreshing thinker like Sood ... not after they destroyed what he created with VoodooPC.

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