Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39
  1.    #1  
    The Apple iPhone and iPad are the 800-pound gorillas in the room. Because Android is being licensed out, they will surround Apple with 100 new devices a year in every size and style.

    Without licensing out webOS, HP must attack Apple head-on, matching Apple's features and going beyond. HP has the enginering and marketing might to do it.

    Match iPhone Features
    1. Voice Commands
    iPhone part.

    2. iTunes
    Since 2001, iTunes was been a huge win. Apple iTunes is still the only mobile OS music store. Google Music has been rumored for some time and HP is rumored to have Music Synergy coming. Good.

    3. Folders
    iPhone Folders and Android Folders can each have 256 apps just 3 taps away: Home → Folder → app. There's a patch for that already. Just use it.

    4. AirPrint
    Apple AirPrint in 2010 lets you print photos, email, PDF's, etc. to almost all networked printers. Apps like Printopia expand capabilities. Google Print also works with almost any networked printer. Neither require drivers of software. HP ePrint requires server software and drivers and certain high-end printers. Simple answer: use Google Print.

    5. Bumping Devices
    Proximity Transfer allows two devices to transfer information. HP Touch-To-Share (TTS) transfers URLs, text, or calls (Engadget). iPhone and Android Bump transfers contacts, songs, photos, events, money, friends, apps, etc. Near Field Communication is expected soon to eliminate Bluetooth pairing. Apple's NFC patents (more & more) go into iPad 2 and iPhone 5 this spring. Google added NFC in 2010 with their own patents. If HP ports Bump over, they would have the rest.

    6. Video Chat
    The HP Pre 3 and TouchPad will have video chat similar to iPhone and iPad 2 Facetime and Android Qik. Done.

    7. Apps
    If HP is going to be the "cool kids" they need the cool apps like Shazam, Barcode Scanner, and a variety of options for email, text, etc. After 2 years it's time to open up the API's and let the developers develop.

    8. Embrace the Homebrew Community
    The Homebrew Community has developed and carefully tested hundreds of missing basic options. Android has watched us and added over 100 of these patches. HP, it does not make you look bad to not have thought of these key features internally. Shunning your users, on the other hand, is bad. Social Networking is a good thing.


    Go After iPhone Weaknesses
    1. Synergy
    Synergy 2.0 will allow developers to sync their apps into contacts and calendar like Android Contact sync. Apple has no ability like this.

    2. Notifications
    iPhone notifications pop up on top of whatever you are doing and require you to open the app right away. webOS and Android allow users to see the notification and take action when the user chooses.

    3. Limited 3rd Party Multitasking
    webOS Multitasking and Android Multitasking allow 3rd party apps to use the processes they need for multitasking. Apple Multitasking is more limited.

    4. Cards and Stacks
    webOS Cards applied the 2007 iPhone Safari card metaphor to apps in 2009. Android's browser has used cards since 2008. In iOS, double tap the Home button to scroll through cards of recent apps.

    5. Flash
    The iPhone can't play the millions of flash files that Android can play. HP is getting Flash. Help Adobe make it a big deal.

    6. Battery Replacement
    Apple still can't figure out that users may need to replace a battery. But how do you market that your battery may need to be replaced as a feature?

    7. 3G Video Chat
    iOS 4.3 allows video chat only on WiFi, not is 3G. So offer Video Chat in 3G like Android. Beat Apple up on this.

    8. Widgets
    Clock, weather, Gmail, Facebook, Twitter, and other widgets allow multiple live feeds onscreen at one time. Apple is stuck in 2007. Every developer HP is teamed with already does widgets. Just let them.

    9. Notification lights
    As basic as it is, the iPhone still does not have a notification LED. Beat it up. HP has LED's just like Android.

    10. Keyboards
    Apple offers one keyboard and one skin that they think is right for all users. Court a list of onscreen keyboard developers such as SwiftKey with their new keyboard optimized for tablets.

    11. Touchstone
    The HP Touchstone and iPhone Powermat, Enerergizer Wireless Charger, and Duracell myGrid allow inducitve charging. You place the phone on a special surface but no cable is needed between the phone and surface. A power cord is requried for the charging surface.

    Looking ahead, 32 GB, 64 GB, and 128GB microSD cards are getting cheaper all the time and microSD card slots cost almost nothing. Also 4G and high resolution cameras are a lot of hype but not going away any time soon.

    So what do you think HP needs to do to be successful against Apple in smartphones and tablets?
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 02/25/2011 at 10:45 AM.
  2. #2  
    Stand by to repel boarders. Asbestos suit to the ready.
  3. #3  
    You've made some good points, but I'm going to play devils advocate here and take a shot from the "other side".

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Go After iPhone Weaknesses
    1. Synergy
    Synergy 2.0 will allow developers to sync their apps into contacts and calendar like Android Contact sync. Apple has no ability like this.
    Personally, I would like to see more integration across the OS, like you see on Android and webOS. I think Android takes the cake here and Synergy is a lot more robust and integral.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    2. Notifications
    iPhone notifications pop up on top of whatever you are doing and require you to open the app right away. webOS and Android allow users to see the notification and take action when the user chooses.
    Probably the single most desired thing right now on iOS. However, if you were to take a poll of general users, most could probably care less. It just works for them.

    I would be surprised if we don't see a revamped notification system in iOS 5, which will likely hit before webOS 3.0.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    3. Limited 3rd Party Multitasking
    webOS and Android allow 3rd party apps to use the processes they need for multitasking. Apple doesn't. Who cares how many apps you have if they can't play together?
    This has yet to be seen as an issue on iOS. Even renowned developers are content with how things are currently setup on iOS and have no desire to make use of the more "open" systems.

    Many will argue that Apple implemented multitasking in a manner it should be done on mobile platforms. It gives developers the tools they need to do most things needed but doesn't require moderation and watch by users. It's all about the experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    4. Cards and Stacks
    webOS Cards applied the 2007 iPhone Safari card metaphor to apps in 2009. Android's browser has used cards since 2008. Jon already claimed Cards. Go Jon. Just don't push it too hard.
    When I initially bought the Pre, I tried selling my sister and mother on the Pre; I pushed it on them hard, for a couple of days but they hated the cards. It was "too much" for them (in their own words).

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    5. Flash
    The iPhone can't play the millions of flash files that Android can play. HP is getting Flash. Help Adobe make it a big deal.
    This has yet to be seen as an issue as millions upon millions of iOS devices continue to sale. Websites content adapt and native apps fill the gaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    6. Battery Replacement
    Apple still can't figure out that users may need to replace a battery. But how do you market that your battery may need to be replaced as a feature?
    There are cases with built-in battery packs made specifically for iPhones. They're great and work well; actually they're much better than toting around extra batteries as they don't require much hassle. Simply slide on and go about your business.

    If you have battery issues, Apple will generally replace your phone altogether. It's a pretty painless and seamless action.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    7. 3G Video Chat
    iOS 4.3 allows video chat only on WiFi, not is 3G. So offer Video Chat in 3G like Android. Beat Apple up on this.
    FaceTime only restricts video calling to WiFi. There are numerous amounts of apps, to include Skype, that enable video over 3G. However, after a quick comparison of a video call on 3G and WiFi one will quickly understand why this is: cell networks are not ready.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    8. Widgets
    Clock, weather, Gmail, Facebook, Twitter, and other widgets allow multiple live feeds onscreen at one time. Apple is stuck in 2007. Every developer HP is teamed with already does widgets. Just let them.
    Widgets aren't for everyone. I've seen countless users on this very forum state how "stupid" they are. Personally, I like them and would welcome them on iOS (especially a device like the iPad).

    9. Notification lights
    As basic as it is, the iPhone still does not have a notification LED. Beat it up. HP has LED's just like Android.
    Would be cool to have on the iPhone, but I don't think it's a huge selling point.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    10. Keyboards
    Apple offers one keyboard and one skin that they think is right for all users. Court a list of onscreen keyboard developers such as SwiftKey with their new keyboard optimized for tablets.
    Actually, any bluetooth keyboard will work with the iPad and iPhone. However, a choice in software keyboard would be great; Swype is spectacular!

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Looking ahead, 32 GB, 64 GB, and 128GB microSD cards are getting cheaper all the time and microSD card slots cost almost nothing. Also 4G and high resolution cameras are a lot of hype but not going away any time soon.
    You can bet Apple will have a LTE-enabled iPhone in the future, when the market is larger. Apple never adopts early technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    HP is in position to take on Apple and win.
    The key is pricing, and software. If HP want's people to buy a webOS device over an iOS device it needs to be comparable on every level, but most importantly it needs to excel beyond where the iPhone has succeeded.

    Just my $0.02
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    ...HP is in position to take on Apple and win.
    Two major points to an excellent post.

    • You left out "maintain an open system, and continue to support the HomeBrew community". This an area where HP/Palm stomps all over Apple's oppressive "we will own it all" mentality
    • This really should be "HP is in a position to continue to take on Apple and win"; keeping in mind that HP, at one time or another, has beat Apple in every category; sales, size, market penetration, profitability, etc.
  5. #5  
    Nice points and counter-points. Great discussion here.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  6. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Posts
    3,868 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,556 Global Posts
    #6  
    5. Bumping Devices
    HP Touch-to-share will transfer a URL, text, or phone call. iPhone and Android users can Bump contacts, songs, photos, events, money, friends, etc. NFC simplifies and eliminates Bluetooth pairing. Apple's NFC patents (more & more) go into iPad 2 and iPhone 5 this spring. Google added NFC in 2010 with their own patents. If HP ports Bump over, they would have the rest.
    This shouldn't be listed as a matching feature - because it's based on a mixture of bluetooth and touchstone technology, there is no interoperability in the way devices (across Oses) with NFC will have. Also it's designed to share information with yourself not others. You are comparing apples with oranges.

    6. Battery Replacement
    Apple still can't figure out that users may need to replace a battery. But how do you market that your battery may need to be replaced as a feature?
    You need a special tool to replace the battery in a veer (which is only 910Mah) to start with, so for the average consumer it's the same thing.
    Last edited by CGK; 02/22/2011 at 02:48 AM.
  7. #7  
    i think there are lots of good points. That said i think much of that stuff just isnt' that important to the avg smartphone users and especially the iphone users. If the goal is to "beat apple" you've gotta take their customers. HP will only get customers if they do what apple already does well but better or at least good enough. So for me at the top of my list would instead be the following:

    Apps: Number 1 issue. obviously they are way way way behind almost everyone. It's basically only hobbyist making webos apps right now
    a desktop sync software, music and video manager equal to itunes in terms of looks and functions. That is an app store, tag management, probably contact management, palm id management.
    need to leapfrog apple in performance, features and the overall slickness, sexiness and cohesiveness of the product. i dont' mean raw performance i mean they need to be first to market with the big stuff. Kinda like they did with multiasking. but over and over. they need to not match but innovate on stuff that matters most. But i really think they need the polish. Everything, Apple gives you a seamless experience. that's what i mean by cohesive. in itunes you drag and drop playlists. They just work. No getting this software, and coverting formats and making sure they are in the right directories, and you're podcasts are where they should be. HP doesn't really offer any experience outside just using the phone. And Pre's re nice looking but not that sexy to me. And MOst HP laptops design wise don't hold up against apple designs. Apple designs look like they should be in a gallery. HTC is probably the closes i've seen to apple when it comes to hardware design in terms of slickness.
    Update media related software. A camera, a music player, camcorder with features like simple playlist integration and white balance, etc.
    music player needs tons of features, integrate podcasting, ebooks. I don't think many people that find iphones and ipods desirable will find it pleasing to have to use several different apps to do all that stuff when it's not seamless.
    Music, video, ebook downloading integration. Whether it's fold amazon into a desktop client like doubletwist did or start their own they need something integrated
    Phones that look better. i know lots like vertical sliders. that's ok but most people like minimalist looking devices. they like slabs. The device must be sexy. That is monochrome, very few seams, made of the proper materials. Looks matter a ton.
    Accessories There just aren't many. They needs stuff like a Bose sound dock, car touchpads, tons of cases, etc,
    Update the launch apps. it's crazy that they've done so little.


    i'm not saying there's no merit to some of the OP's things to fix. I just don't think they are all that important. I think they shouldn't be the first things they fix personally. Like i think voice commands are important in the future. But many others? Not so important. Like if i'm in a store and the salesman comes at me with removable battery, grouping apps in stacks, and intrusive widgets vs itunes downloads, movie and tv downloads, and a wealth of apps it's pretty much no contest for me.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 02/22/2011 at 03:42 AM.
  8. #8  
    On the battery replacement thing:

    I'm not so sure this is that important. The more I consider how I use my phones (and I've mostly used devices with replaceable batteries), the more I realize that I don't swap batteries much. The issue I have is that you have to power down the device to swap batteries. The times that I've noticed I'm low on juice, I'm usually in the middle of a task or a call or something and don't want to power down. So I've started using the portable chargers that hold something like 50+ hours of charge that can give me a jump "on the go".

    So for me, replaceable batteries is no longer a big selling point but more of a nice to have feature.
  9. #9  
    This post is nothing more than the iPod vs MP3 players all over again.

    The same things was said about iPod vs MP3 players and the whole PlaysForSure.

    Then when that failed miserably, Microsoft tried again with the iPod vs Zune and that failed miserably.

    Now, you're doing the same list with the iPhone and iPad vs HP.

    What's that saying about doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results?
  10. #10  
    Not that those points the OP raises aren't important but if they truly want to compete:

    Why Apple doesn't need an iPad 2 | Crave - CNET

    You know, if you could pick one thing to start with that would make a difference for HP, what would it be?

    My one thing would be an itunes like desktop app/media manager/store with a lot of Amazon mixed in it. Sure, the OTA updates are great and should be an option, but these phones should have to be synced before using. It ensures that people do this. It's handholding 101.

    Itunes is a pig. HP could do much better and provide better syncing with Office. Work out some deal with amazon.

    What appeals to me about webOS are the apps baked into the OS. The integrated chat/sms. Plus i hear skype will be built into the phone app. Concepts like music synergy sounds appealing.

    Still, if i was HP, i'd probably quit trying to be the next apple (it aint happening) and focus on windows http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/22/w...september-pdc/
    Last edited by cardfan; 02/22/2011 at 08:02 AM.
  11. ijip's Avatar
    Posts
    885 Posts
    Global Posts
    960 Global Posts
    #11  
    well i hate to burst your bubble but there is clear evidence now that iOS and android are direct competitors. So if i were HP i would not try to compete with any of them at the moment, and simply try to carve its own niche and grow from there. pretty much what apple did with the ipod. instead push hard with the tablets to interact with your pc and eventually enough people will want the phone to go with it as well.

    I feel if HP can develop its webos ecosystem, it will take years, years for apple and google to catch up. they will have to do complete rewrites of their os. HP has the deepest connections in the business industries as well as the gov't. If they can show them webos is secure enough for their needs and show how easy it will be to write custom apps for them i believe they will switch.

    HP is doing all the right things, just get the software ready, keep it light and robust and people will buy...
    Want to help design and write an app?
    follow me at Twiiter @ijip
    THANKS~!!
  12. #12  
    Every company going against apple has an uphill battle.

    Why?

    Apple's brand in consumer mindshare. They are the cool company. They are a status symbol. I know people happily sitting on blackberry's who without a second thought, when the iphone came to verizon made the switch. Its not cause they loved all the features of the iPhone...no, its because it is a status symbol. It also helps its a really good phone.

    But there are other really good phones as well. Not a single one does the numbers that a single iPhone can and does do. It'll take a lot more than a good product unfortunately. It needs to be a status symbol product.

    It needs to be a Sidekick
    It needs to be a Razr
    It needs to be a Blackberry

    Much like batman...it needs to be more than a man.
  13.    #13  
    Thanks for the great ideas. I added two sections to the Opening Post based on your input.
    --------------------------------------
    7. Apps
    No you do not need 100,000+ apps but if you are going to be the "cool kids" you think you are you need the cool apps like Shazam, real music players, Bar Code Readers, and a variety of options for email, text, etc. After 2 years it's time to open up the API's and let the developers develop.

    8. Embrace the Homebrew Community
    The Homebrew Community has developed and carefully tested hundreds of missing basic options. Android has watched us and added over 100 of these patches. HP, it does not make you look bad to not have thought of these key features internally. Shunning your users, on the other hand, is bad. Social Networking is a good thing.
  14. #14  
    At the risk of sounding redundant, I fail to see how this Apple fetish benefits HP. Why the heck would HP be trying to beat Apple? First, if they feel the need to directly compete with someone, why Apple? Why not Google or MS? To me, the idea of HP competing with Apple is as silly as Ford declaring they are competing with BMW, or Mercedes. Why?

    That is not who HP is or ever was. They are bending way outside their core competency to enter this race. They are not good at this stuff. This is not what made them HP. It could certainly unmake them, though.

    HP and Apple are not in the same competitive space. But pretending for a moment that they are, I would say HP cannot compete by building a better iPhone or iPad. According to many here and elsewhere, better iPhones have already been built. They still do not make a dent in Apple's profit-share of the market. The same will be true of pads.

    Trying to out iPhone the iPhone, or out iPad the iPad means you have already lost. To win, HP has to play the real game. The game isn't about making a better iPad; the game is about making the next big thing. That is what Apple does so well.

    They build something that others are compelled to try and duplicate. If HP wants to compete with Apple, they have to be the ones who build the next big thing that Apple is compelled to try and duplicate. That's the game. As long as HP is playing follow the leader, they can never win. I think a better roll model for HP is IBM.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    At the risk of sounding redundant, I fail to see how this Apple fetish benefits HP. Why the heck would HP be trying to beat Apple? First, if they feel the need to directly compete with someone, why Apple? Why not Google or MS? To me, the idea of HP competing with Apple is as silly as Ford declaring they are competing with BMW, or Mercedes. Why?

    That is not who HP is or ever was. They are bending way outside their core competency to enter this race. They are not good at this stuff. This is not what made them HP. It could certainly unmake them, though.

    HP and Apple are not in the same competitive space. But pretending for a moment that they are, I would say HP cannot compete by building a better iPhone or iPad. According to many here and elsewhere, better iPhones have already been built. They still do not make a dent in Apple's profit-share of the market. The same will be true of pads.

    Trying to out iPhone the iPhone, or out iPad the iPad means you have already lost. To win, HP has to play the real game. The game isn't about making a better iPad; the game is about making the next big thing. That is what Apple does so well.

    They build something that others are compelled to try and duplicate. If HP wants to compete with Apple, they have to be the ones who build the next big thing that Apple is compelled to try and duplicate. That's the game. As long as HP is playing follow the leader, they can never win. I think a better roll model for HP is IBM.
    But,
    aren't all your arguments based off of what HP was?
    Where they now go with WebOS could just as easily be what others try to emulate.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    ...I would say HP cannot compete by building a better iPhone or iPad. According to many here and elsewhere, better iPhones have already been built. They still do not make a dent in Apple's profit-share of the market. The same will be true of pads.
    ...
    I don't understand what you mean by "profit-share of the market".

    If you simply meant "profit", I doubt HP is trying to put a dent in Apple's profi. I suspect they simply want to improve their own.

    If you meant "profit and share of the market", I disagree. Android has definitly put, not only a dent, but a major dent in Apples market share.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't understand what you mean by "profit-share of the market".
    I mean this.
  18. #18  
    I have a question...

    How is HP going to convince customers that are accustomed to spending $300 - $400 for a HP laptop to spend $600 or more for the TouchPad that has worse specs and less functionality than a typical HP laptop?
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I mean this.
    It's now up to 4.2% market share and 51% of the smartphone profit.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I have a question...

    How is HP going to convince customers that are accustomed to spending $300 - $400 for a HP laptop to spend $600 or more for the TouchPad that has worse specs and less functionality than a typical HP laptop?
    They've been doing it for years.
    Laptops, with lower specs, have always cost more than a desktop with higher specs.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions