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  1. #22  
    Cobrakon, as Nappy said, those have m. versions too. At least the ones I tried on iOS.

    But also, the sites who use flash nearly always (my caveat is that I am excluding games, because I am not a gamer, but I do know that flash is really important to games) are about advertising.

    I know we always think of the little flashing annoying ads as using flash, but these big sites (movie trailers, coca-cola, Doritos) are all just more sophisticated ads. I just don't go to them all that often, and when/if I do, they aren't really critical to my browsing flow. They are ADS.

    Not that they aren't cool - they are. But I just don't think anyone could say they are in the same category as sites I actually use and read.

    I am pretty well aware of which sites use flash, since my default is browsing without flash, and I am pretty well aware of which sites have mobile configurations since I also use iOS, and sites I USE (versus ad sites) just plain have mobile alternatives. Without an App.

    Just like the Coca-cola site does above.

    For example, my bank's site does not work on my browser unless I enable flash. But it works fine on my iphone (not an app; I mean the website) because it has a mobile version, and is more suited to a 3.5" screen, to boot. (The full website is not really designed for a phone anyhow)

    As Cantafforditsaid earlier, and many hate to say, Jobs was right: Flash is no good on mobile, and the fact he came forward with his admittedly arrogant opinion, has spurred the development of ALTERNATIVES, and for that I am grateful.

    (Edit: I am pretty sure that that Monster site is html5, because it not only opens and plays on my ios device, but it also works in my browser for which Flash is disabled. This is what I am seeing, regardless of what people say when they claim "40% of the web is not viewable!!!")
    Last edited by finngirl; 02/21/2011 at 05:31 PM.
  2. #23  
    What most people fail to realize is that site's content adapt. You visit a site on your desktop computer, see Flash and therefor think it must be inaccessible on your mobile device due to its usage of Flash.

    Not true.

    Most sites recognize the device that is being used and its capabilities and model the content they deliver around it. Take Vimeo, Video Sharing For You for example, if you visit the site on your computer, videos are delivered using Flash, however if you visit the site using an iPad or iPhone the container used to deliver video is changed from Flash to HTML5.

    Flash is cool, yeah, but to be honest, it hasn't really advanced while everything else around it has and continues to do so and now Adobe is playing catch up.

    A lot of people are also going to be sorely disappointed when they get these tablets that are Flash-enabled and realize soon thereafter that the games they're used to playing on their desktop aren't optimized for or completely unplayable on a touch device.
  3.    #24  
    Still can't tell what I am missing without Flash. On my iPad, I can:

    1. Watch a TV show or movie
    2. Order a pizza
    3. Book a flight and buy a ticket
    4. Reserve a table at a restaurant
    5. Play free games
    6. Curse ads
    7. Continue trying and failing to write the great American novel in GDocs
    8. Watch po..., alternate media.
    9. Read PC and post on these boards
    10. ...and anything else I want to do.

    This is like the argument about the draconian App Store restrictions limiting the functionality of iOS devices. I can do more on my "limited" iOS devices than anyone I know can do on their anti-iDvice. I fail to see the restrictions of being without Flash in real life.

    I do lead a rather boring long battery life, crash-free, it just works existence most of the time. Perhaps I should take a walk on the wild side.
  4. #25  
    Ad your last sentence is the main point: I'd be fine having a device that played Flash - it would add to it, in fact - but NOT at the expense of battery or performance.

    For me it is just not worth a trade off in those two areas.

    And it sounds like Motorola came to the same conclusion.
  5. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I really hate it when Steve Jobs is right.... But now that I have flash on my phone...it turns out to mbe almost useless. It's great for a webcast that requires flash to get the audio, but the video tends to be just a few fps and not worth using battery life to light the lcd.

    has anyone found a decent flash game website so I can give it another workout for games? Supposedly that was a major reason for flash...
    I like that i don't have to compromise my web experience if i want. There are a lot of websites that are built on flash and its good to see i can still interact with them on my Evo.

    Btw, download this...gives you full flash games that work great on phones:
    https://market.android.com/details?i...=search_result
  6. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Still can't tell what I am missing without Flash. On my iPad, I can:

    1. Watch a TV show or movie
    2. Order a pizza
    3. Book a flight and buy a ticket
    4. Reserve a table at a restaurant
    5. Play free games
    6. Curse ads
    7. Continue trying and failing to write the great American novel in GDocs
    8. Watch po..., alternate media.
    9. Read PC and post on these boards
    10. ...and anything else I want to do.

    This is like the argument about the draconian App Store restrictions limiting the functionality of iOS devices. I can do more on my "limited" iOS devices than anyone I know can do on their anti-iDvice. I fail to see the restrictions of being without Flash in real life.

    I do lead a rather boring long battery life, crash-free, it just works existence most of the time. Perhaps I should take a walk on the wild side.
    Point Taken. You can also watch a BD Movie output to a CRT TV over composite A/V cables and watch the movie just fine. Are you getting the full and proper experience as it was intended to be viewed? Nope. No HD picture and no HD Audio tracks but hey, you still got to see that movie with the "fuzzy blue people on that blurry planet" right?

    (I however will take my BD movies streamed over HDMI to my Sharp Aquos in 1080p and blasted through my 1200w HT system thank you. )
  7. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Still can't tell what I am missing without Flash. On my iPad, I can:

    1. Watch a TV show or movie
    2. Order a pizza
    3. Book a flight and buy a ticket
    4. Reserve a table at a restaurant
    5. Play free games
    6. Curse ads
    7. Continue trying and failing to write the great American novel in GDocs
    8. Watch po..., alternate media.
    9. Read PC and post on these boards
    10. ...and anything else I want to do.

    This is like the argument about the draconian App Store restrictions limiting the functionality of iOS devices. I can do more on my "limited" iOS devices than anyone I know can do on their anti-iDvice. I fail to see the restrictions of being without Flash in real life.

    I do lead a rather boring long battery life, crash-free, it just works existence most of the time. Perhaps I should take a walk on the wild side.
    .11 use it to promote apple and inciite controversy on P|C
  8. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is like the argument about the draconian App Store restrictions limiting the functionality of iOS devices. I can do more on my "limited" iOS devices than anyone I know can do on their anti-iDvice. I fail to see the restrictions of being without Flash in real life.
    Correction: You can do more of what's important to YOU on your iOS device.

    I just gave you a prime use case where my son likes PBSkids.com. The full site. Not the "i" version. Not the apps they make you download that cover a fraction of the activities. The site. When we're at home, he doesn't want to tap around a 3.5-inch screen (or if we had an iPad a 9.7 inch one). He wants to get in Daddy's chair and get on the big 21-inch screen or he wants play with our HP netbook (12-inch). He loves hardware keyboards because he loves playing around with physical manifestations of letters and numbers.

    He does like to tap around our iPod Touch or my Epic 4G for other kids' games and watching stuff like Ice Age 3. But these devices do not, by any stretch of the imagination, replace or obviate the need for a full Flash device.

    I don't see why people here want to limit themselves. I use the Android ecosystem and PC ecosystem everyday. My wife uses her iPod Touch (strictly for music, though) almost everyday. They all have their benefits.
  9.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Correction: You can do more of what's important to YOU on your iOS device.

    I just gave you a prime use case where my son likes PBSkids.com. The full site. Not the "i" version. Not the apps they make you download that cover a fraction of the activities. The site. When we're at home, he doesn't want to tap around a 3.5-inch screen (or if we had an iPad a 9.7 inch one). He wants to get in Daddy's chair and get on the big 21-inch screen or he wants play with our HP netbook (12-inch). He loves hardware keyboards because he loves playing around with physical manifestations of letters and numbers.

    He does like to tap around our iPod Touch or my Epic 4G for other kids' games and watching stuff like Ice Age 3. But these devices do not, by any stretch of the imagination, replace or obviate the need for a full Flash device.

    I don't see why people here want to limit themselves. I use the Android ecosystem and PC ecosystem everyday. My wife uses her iPod Touch (strictly for music, though) almost everyday. They all have their benefits.
    Never argued the contrary. I spend most of my free time in front of two monitors, 27" and 24". I have no limits on what I can experience on the web. I prefer to use my desktop setup for the vast majority of things, even things I can do on my iPad. Even if the iPad had Flash, I wouldn't want to use it there. Flash is not optimized for the small screen experience. Most of it assumes a mouse and keyboard. It is a different experience.

    I have not promoted trying to shoehorn everything into a mobile experience. That would be nuts. When I am using my iPad, I do not feel the least bit restricted. As I said, I can do anything I like on my iPad: things that make sense for that formfactor. Like your children, there are many things I prefer to do on a beast of a desktop. That would not change with the availability of Flash on a mobile device, not for me anyway.
  10. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Never argued the contrary. I spend most of my free time in front of two monitors, 27" and 24". I have no limits on what I can experience on the web. I prefer to use my desktop setup for the vast majority of things, even things I can do on my iPad. Even if the iPad had Flash, I wouldn't want to use it there. Flash is not optimized for the small screen experience. Most of it assumes a mouse and keyboard. It is a different experience.

    I have not promoted trying to shoehorn everything into a mobile experience. That would be nuts. When I am using my iPad, I do not feel the least bit restricted. As I said, I can do anything I like on my iPad: things that make sense for that formfactor. Like your children, there are many things I prefer to do on a beast of a desktop. That would not change with the availability of Flash on a mobile device, not for me anyway.
    Yeah, it restricts me. Another example is my wife. like a lot of people when they reach their 30s and 40s these days, she loves reminiscing about the music and videos she grew up with. She'll jump on YouTube...queue up a video, pause it, queue up another one, pause it, and so on. Then, she'll go watch an episode of Modern Family or whatever on Hulu.

    Nothing but a PC environment with a real browser really accommodates this kind of behavior. And that's why in any screen larger than 7 inches or so, I won't accept a "mobile OS" as they exist today. I find it rather limiting.

    As an aside, I thought of you a couple days ago, Dandbj13. My wife was watching Oprah's network, and as many know, she declared the iPad to be her "favorite thing" of all time. Awesome perk, right? But this was the "behind-the-scenes" of the show where she gave one away to each audience member, and when one of her producers told her they secured a deal with Apple to get them for free for everyone, she broke down in tears of joy. After collecting herself, she said it will change their lives and she compared it to the invention of the automobile. After keeping my lunch down and rolling my eyes back into my head, I just chuckled, shook my head, and left the room.
  11. #32  
    I feel many ways about things like Widgets. It would be real tough for me to go to a phone without at a glance information or switches.


    But thats the beauty of a competitive market....some people want some things, others want other things.

    Whats funny is this website:
    J.K.Rowling Official Site - Harry Potter and more

    My gf (who loves harry potter) went to, and on her evo she was actually able to navigate the full flash version without compromise. Again, its not a feature i MUST have...but its nice to have these features. I just find it odd Apple is so against it....on android, you can set it to "On Demand" and a user wouldn't even see flash unless they choose to interact with it.
  12. #33  
    You know, even the beautiful sites that use Flash, I wish that they wouldn't.

    Any site that solely uses Flash is a failure as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, there's a lot of them that still do, which I see for restaurants pretty often, and bands seem to be guilty of it as well.

    I hate it (even on my PC), but unfortunately there are times I still need Flash.
  13. noahisaac's Avatar
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    #34  
    Not having flash is definitely a deal breaker for me. Hulu, espn3.com, game trackers on all the various sports websites, a million movie sites other than youtube and vimeo. Those are just a few thing off the top of my head. I want to have access to all those things on my phone, and to get them, I need flash.
  14.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nothing but a PC environment with a real browser really accommodates this kind of behavior. And that's why in any screen larger than 7 inches or so, I won't accept a "mobile OS" as they exist today. I find it rather limiting.
    No argument here. 7" is 20" too small for me for the types of things you are describing. That's partly why Flash on a small touchscreen makes no difference to me.

    As an aside, I thought of you a couple days ago, Dandbj13. My wife was watching Oprah's network, and as many know, she declared the iPad to be her "favorite thing" of all time. Awesome perk, right? But this was the "behind-the-scenes" of the show where she gave one away to each audience member, and when one of her producers told her they secured a deal with Apple to get them for free for everyone, she broke down in tears of joy. After collecting herself, she said it will change their lives and she compared it to the invention of the automobile. After keeping my lunch down and rolling my eyes back into my head, I just chuckled, shook my head, and left the room.
    LOL! Just so you know, I'm not anywhere near that crazy. There is a point where you have to walk away from the all-you-can-drink Kool-aid bar.

    Quote Originally Posted by noahisaac View Post
    Not having flash is definitely a deal breaker for me. Hulu...
    Not so fast, Flash will do nothing for your Hulu jones.
  15. #36  
    Why not? There is a "hacked" hulu app that uses flash that you can use on android devices (that are rooted).
  16.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Why not? There is a "hacked" hulu app that uses flash that you can use on android devices (that are rooted).
    If we're talking about hacking, rooting, breaking DRM, and the like, what does Flash have to do with it? I'm sure you can probably stream torrents of anything you like without having to pay for the bandwidth on a properly hacked, cracked, and rooted Android device. That has little to do with Flash.
  17. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    What most people fail to realize is that site's content adapt. You visit a site on your desktop computer, see Flash and therefor think it must be inaccessible on your mobile device due to its usage of Flash.

    Not true.

    Most sites recognize the device that is being used and its capabilities and model the content they deliver around it. Take Vimeo, Video Sharing For You for example, if you visit the site on your computer, videos are delivered using Flash, however if you visit the site using an iPad or iPhone the container used to deliver video is changed from Flash to HTML5.

    Flash is cool, yeah, but to be honest, it hasn't really advanced while everything else around it has and continues to do so and now Adobe is playing catch up.

    A lot of people are also going to be sorely disappointed when they get these tablets that are Flash-enabled and realize soon thereafter that the games they're used to playing on their desktop aren't optimized for or completely unplayable on a touch device.
    I can't disagree more with that. As a former ipad owner, the absence of Flash was sorely missed. Many websites use Flash to scroll items within a web-page or require input. My iPad couldn't do anything with these pages. you also can't view any streaming videos of trailers or short clips of video games, etc. At first I didn't think not having flash would be a big deal, until I realized that most of the pages I visit used Flash in one form or another and not just for advertising, but for actual functionality.
  18. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    You know, even the beautiful sites that use Flash, I wish that they wouldn't.

    Any site that solely uses Flash is a failure as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, there's a lot of them that still do, which I see for restaurants pretty often, and bands seem to be guilty of it as well.

    I hate it (even on my PC), but unfortunately there are times I still need Flash.
    Any particular reason why you hate flash so much? Aside from it making pages more animated, allow you to stream video clips, and build more complex web pages?
  19. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Ad your last sentence is the main point: I'd be fine having a device that played Flash - it would add to it, in fact - but NOT at the expense of battery or performance.

    For me it is just not worth a trade off in those two areas.

    And it sounds like Motorola came to the same conclusion.
    So why not just have a software toggle to disable Flash when you don't need it, and enable it when you want to use it?
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