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  1. #101  
    I'm an Apple fan!

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Just because you don't buy my reason, doesn't mean its not valid.

    I don't know "why" (and clearly, you don't know why either) but my theory is valid.

    Fact is, you're just a dude who has no idea why, if they have, Apple has negotiated that. It is no secret they tightly control their public perception. (Something HP clearly has never learned)
    Your reason would need to show a cost/benefit for everyone involved. Carriers don't make radical changes in order paths and eCommerce systems unless there is a significant pay back. The only benefit to the carrier is that they wanted to iPhone. Other than the iPhone, it didn't create any increase in people choosing that carrier, or deciding not to buy a BlackBerry because negative user comments were posted for BlackBerry but not Apple.

    You have to be reasonable here. Think about your own purchases. Did you every find yourself more likely to buy something because a vendor made a significant effort to prevent you from reading what people say after having made the purchase you are contemplating? Did you ever eschew a product because they weren't smart enough to suppress critical users?

    And at a business level, do you think $multi-billion companies allocate IT resources for something that creates different user experiences for different products? If you have any experience in IT process, change control, etc... you know this just doesn't make sense. There has to be a pay-off greater than the cost. I don't see the pay-off to AT&T or Verizon to allocate IT resources to fix a system that wasn't broken. It's not that I "don't like" your reason. It's that it doesn't make practical sense based on the realities of business and IT practices.

    Again, I'm not saying Apple is evil. It's impressive that they could make this happen. Your mission it to come up with a plausible reason that benefits those that incur the costs. It doesn't benefit anyone but Apple.
    Next?
  3.    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Exactly. Personal objections without a real basis (or maybe the basis is bias?). Hating just because they can, or better yet, because they want to.

    And my query wasn't directly targeted at you, but you were included.
    Huh??? You called me by name.
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Hey hparsons, where was the outcry when Amazon took a 70% cut and also required price matching across the board?
    So how was that not directed at me?

    And this has nothing to do with "hating". It's a legal matter.
    Last edited by hparsons; 02/20/2011 at 10:15 PM.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Your reason would need to show a cost/benefit for everyone involved. ....
    Next?
    No, you asked me for an explanation. I gave you one. You're now very off topic.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    How about because Apple knows that user review sites for tech, in general, use a large amount of *paid* "reviewers" as part of their marketing strategy? Those review sites are cesspools.

    If you have the clout to not be part of that mess, why not?

    There is a reason you have to own, say, an app in order to review it.

    Many consumer retail sites only allow reviews from people who have purchases for the item on record. Not Best Buy of course!



    But I appreciate you clarifying that you are speculating.
    I am going to apologize in advance. I have been following this thread with much interest and I couldn't resist:

    Do you know why that is? Or are you assuming? I think if you don't know why that is, and you're implying something, you are being disingenuous.

    If you do know why that is, you should say.

    If you really don't, but you're just assuming, you should say, if you are interested in being honest in your critique.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by bulliedog View Post
    I am going to apologize in advance. I have been following this thread with much interest and I couldn't resist:

    Do you know why that is? Or are you assuming? I think if you don't know why that is, and you're implying something, you are being disingenuous.

    If you do know why that is, you should say.

    If you really don't, but you're just assuming, you should say, if you are interested in being honest in your critique.
    You must not have been following closely. I am not assuming anything.

    He asked me for possible scenarios. That's what I gave.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    LOL. Have you ever read Apple's own support forums?
    I had this discussion with Phone Diva sometime back.
    It's only been recently they started allowing negative posts.

    I had the much covered up, swept under the carpet, 'ELP' issue.
    If you don't know what it is, I'm not surprised.
    Although, you may now know about.
    But only after Apple couldn't deny it any longer.

    Any other Apple/Mac related forum, and you were free to discuss it.
    But not on Apple's forums. I read in so many other forums that one could start a thread about the issue, and it would get deleted.
    The Macbook Pro's have since be redesigned, and that's what I have now - btw; Best computer I've ever owned.

    You only have to go back a year or two, and it was well known that Apple's own forums, deleted many threads that discussed obvious hardware issues.
    Just call me Berd.
  8. #108  
    >>
    You are agreeing with me that this is an example of Apple controlling information. So then why are you trying to argue that I'm wrong? You can't argue both sides.>>

    I didn't really read the rest of this post but responding to the part above. I've not been "trying to argue" with you about apple controlling information. I fully agree they do. That's one reason they have a successful company.

    My original dispute (not an argument) was that you were presenting something you assume, as fact.

    Fact is, you have no idea why or if Apple has negotiated with anyone to disallow reviews, and the *reasons* (ie, the truth) -- which you do not know -- could be very different from what your active imagination has presumed.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    No, you asked me for an explanation. I gave you one. You're now very off topic.
    I asked you for an explanation that is plausible and fits the info we have....


    Business between multi-billion dollar companies just doesn't happen the way you are suggesting. Unless you've got experience in bringing products to market through a carrier and integrating them into the ecommerce, provisioning, billing, and delivery systems... in which case please tell us specifically where you've experienced that VZW or AT&T.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    >>
    You are agreeing with me that this is an example of Apple controlling information. So then why are you trying to argue that I'm wrong? You can't argue both sides.>>

    I didn't really read the rest of this post but responding to the part above. I've not been "trying to argue" with you about apple controlling information. I fully agree they do. That's one reason they have a successful company.

    My original dispute (not an argument) was that you were presenting something you assume, as fact.

    Fact is, you have no idea why or if Apple has negotiated with anyone to disallow reviews, and the *reasons* (ie, the truth) -- which you do not know -- could be very different from what your active imagination has presumed.
    OK, well I am not presenting an assumption. What I said is based on direct experience I have with carriers, and information from those carriers specific to developing and launching the original iPhone. I know what they did, and I know why. Most importantly, I know what the level of effort was to negotiate it and the level of effort needed to execute the requirement. Obviously you think I'm just someone that loves to read my own posts and make sweeping assumptions. You are entitled to think that. And if I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
  11. #111  
    Dude. You have NO IDEA why. You're a guy. posting on a website. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that, even if you can make highly educated guesses as to motivations of certain business entities, you personally have no idea.

    This particular site, for example, is full of people with all sorts of special insight that make terrible presumptions of apple, google, and hp every day. You are no different (and nor am I).
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Dude. You have NO IDEA why. You're a guy. posting on a website. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that, even if you can make highly educated guesses as to motivations of certain business entities, you personally have no idea.

    This particular site, for example, is full of people with all sorts of special insight that make terrible presumptions of apple, google, and hp every day. You are no different (and nor am I).
    That guy is a moderator on this website, I'd try not to be quite so touchy, if I were you.

    He is very well respected around here and knows what he's talking about. He's not an inexperienced noob!

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    That guy is a moderator on this website, I'd try not to be quite so touchy, if I were you.

    He is very well respected around here and knows what he's talking about. He's not an inexperienced noob!

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    I'm also old enough to be her grandfather. This ain't my first rodeo.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I'm also old enough to be her grandfather. This ain't my first rodeo.
    I don't think we could count your rodeos!


    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I'm also old enough to be her grandfather. This ain't my first rodeo.
    I SERIOUSLY doubt that. Unless you're older than 80.

    And if you feel I have questioned your experience, I have not so I apologize for implying that.

    But frankly, unless you are Steve Jobs, work for him, or are a lawyer who works for Apple, you REALLY don't know why/what about any of Apple's private contracts with , well, anyone.

    Dispute that, if you will. And don't take that personally.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    I SERIOUSLY doubt that. Unless you're older than 80.

    And if you feel I have questioned your experience, I have not so I apologize for implying that.

    But frankly, unless you are Steve Jobs, work for him, or are a lawyer who works for Apple, you REALLY don't know why/what about any of Apple's private contracts with , well, anyone.

    Dispute that, if you will. And don't take that personally.
    Let's just say I've negotiated some pretty big contracts with carriers, and been responsible for delivering services through carriers to their end-customers, and included in the monthly bill to those end customers. I haven't negotiated with Apple lawyers, but I've negotiated contracts with the same people that Apple negotiated with. Just sayin.
  17. #117  
    Here is an interesting take that puts it into perspective, IMO.

    Investigating Apple | TiPb
  18.    #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Here is an interesting take that puts it into perspective, IMO.

    Investigating Apple | TiPb
    Complaing about cable companies "puts it into perspective"? Riiiiight...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

    Edit
    Decided I'd expand a little.

    First of all, I don't know about other companies, but in Texas, cable providers are treated as a utility. This includes actual cable (as in coax cable), digital video providers via cable/fiber (such as Verizon's FIOS and ATT's UVerse), and even satellite. They are covered by Texas's Public Utility Commission. Most states allow monopolies that are public utilities. In Texas, the local municipalities contract with the cable companies for access in their local communities.

    None of this is federal.

    Even if none of this was the case, the article mentioned says nothing about why what Apple is doing is OK. It simply says "investigate someone else that we think is doing something bad instead".

    The "mommy he did it too" defense wasn't permitted by mom, I don't think it's really going to work here either.
    Last edited by hparsons; 02/21/2011 at 09:57 AM.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Here is an interesting take that puts it into perspective, IMO.

    [url= Apple | TiPb[/url]
    I have to say I see ZERO simlarity between cables not offering ala carte channels and time warner having to keep purchases wthin a TW app to apple always gets 30%.

    I don't see the analogy at all.
  20. #120  
    This is great! 4 pages of "because I said so"

    Have you guys tried this popcorn with salt & lime?

    Thanks for the entertainment, fellas!
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