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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    No.

    Are you saying that your non-recorded, eyes on demo showed the TP as snappy, without a hint of sluggishness? Because that is not what is circulating on the web.
    I saw no sluggishness. But didn't you state that it is wrong to argue FOR a product that "doesn't exist" ? Because now you are arguing AGAINST the very same item. Can't have it both ways.

    I saw it. I touched it even though they didn't want me to. I picked it up, even though they didn't want me to.

    My only complaint is that I didn't like the alleged glossy black finish on the alleged back side of the alleged device. I also didn't like the "feeling" I had that the alleged device might not retain it's alleged advantage when compared to the alleged iPad2 that is expected soon according to unnamed sources.

    The game I saw it play was astounding and responsive. The touch screen was butter smooth. If there was anything that wasn't snappy, it was that the Palm guys were still getting used to some of the alleged min-app gesturing that is alleged to be a feature of the device that isn't.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    Yes, my non recording eyes (upgrade planned in the near future) didn't perceive any sluggishness in the TP. That is in fact what I am saying. If someone with recording eyes has something different I would like to see it.
    You said you wanted to see it. Here you go.



    51 sec, and 1:57 are a couple of examples.



    1:03, 1:30

    HP Touchpad to Rival Apple iPad | World News Insight

    From the article:

    There have been several reports from those that were able to try out the Touchpad, suggesting that it was just a little bit sluggish. Not exactly slow, just tiny little delays between actual touch and movement.
    Not everything seems sluggish. But it certainly does not appear to be faster than an iPad, yet.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    I think the point is, either you can either compare the future (two products that don't yet exist, in this case) to the present (one product that does exist, to one that doesn't).

    Truth be told, one CAN do whatever one wants of course, but from a perspective of trying to appear objective, you can't have it both ways.
    It's not even a matter of being objective or subjective. If you're going to be subjective, don't present one line of reasoning to your readers at large, and then present another to "friends" in a forum elsewhere. It debases the article, the author and those who applaud it.

    Presenting what you say as editorial or opinion doesn't excuse you from disclosure.

    And to the tangent now regarding responsiveness or speed on the TouchPad...the present demos are controlled, manicured situations. Really, it's no different than the fairly responsive beta version of WebOS shown at CES 2009. And we all know how that matched up with the day-to-day reality...
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You said you wanted to see it. Here you go.



    51 sec, and 1:57 are a couple of examples.



    1:03, 1:30

    HP Touchpad to Rival Apple iPad | World News Insight

    From the article:



    Not everything seems sluggish. But it certainly does not appear to be faster than an iPad, yet.
    First I said I didn't see any sluggishness. I didn't see anything alarming in either video and even the article said that not everyone agrees there was sluggishness.

    But really the article that I posted is why the Author feels the TP is better than the iPad. He didn't say that in it's current state of development it out performs. He said the specs and features are better and naturally anyone expects better performance as a result.

    But all that is far removed from your claims of it being Pre-alpha hardware and only capable of simulated flash. Both of those assertions are baseless and incorrect.

    I made clear that the hardware is finished but the software is still being developed. But the features demo'd are real and operational, not perfect and smooth as silk in their current state. Although I expect it to be when it launches. If it isn't then you can have your criticism.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Clicking the Thanks button is a great way to say... well THANKS
    Phone Apps: Church Search, Tap for HELP
    TouchPad Apps: Tap for HELP! HD, webOS Meetups
  5. #45  
    HP TouchPad: 5 Features the iPad Lacks - PCWorld

    here is a good read for you guys !!! lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's not even a matter of being objective or subjective. If you're going to be subjective, don't present one line of reasoning to your readers at large, and then present another to "friends" in a forum elsewhere. It debases the article, the author and those who applaud it.

    Presenting what you say as editorial or opinion doesn't excuse you from disclosure.

    And to the tangent now regarding responsiveness or speed on the TouchPad...the present demos are controlled, manicured situations. Really, it's no different than the fairly responsive beta version of WebOS shown at CES 2009. And we all know how that matched up with the day-to-day reality...
    You are splitting hairs here Micah, everyone has a bias. However the author stating that he likes the webOS experience or even believes it to be superior doesn't negate the points he makes on the specs or features.

    Numerous tech reviews have reviewed webOS over the last couple of years and stated that it is one of the best mobile OS experiences they have seen if not the best and has huge potential. Their complaints though have been rooted in hardware and a lack of apps in the catalog. So when those other factors were considered it left webOS lacking.

    That doesn't appear to be the case here and the author points out the reasons he feels are most compelling. When it launches it may actually perform different, but right now he has a fair appraisal based on what he has to compare.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Clicking the Thanks button is a great way to say... well THANKS
    Phone Apps: Church Search, Tap for HELP
    TouchPad Apps: Tap for HELP! HD, webOS Meetups
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    HP TouchPad: 5 Features the iPad Lacks - PCWorld

    here is a good read for you guys !!! lol
    PCWorld seemed to give them a pretty fair shake. They pointed to nearly all of the 10 reasons between two articles directly comparing the two (and some xoom).

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Clicking the Thanks button is a great way to say... well THANKS
    Phone Apps: Church Search, Tap for HELP
    TouchPad Apps: Tap for HELP! HD, webOS Meetups
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    I made clear that the hardware is finished but the software is still being developed. But the features demo'd are real and operational, not perfect and smooth as silk in their current state. Although I expect it to be when it launches. If it isn't then you can have your criticism.
    I'd say you're wasting your time trying to convince someone who obviously wants the TouchPad to fail against the iPad.
  9. #49  
    no they just want HP to fail completely but , they just dont know HP very well do they here read this little tidbit lol

    I don't think we're taking away. The market is in expansion - it's not like we're all at a stable market and, therefore, everybody's trading market share. For us the advantage is we're in 174 countries. We've got supply chain logistics, 88,000 retails stores. We're one of the largest consumer electronics companies in the world simply by the shelf space we control in retail on a global basis. So our reach is what really allows us to bring scale to the equation.
    We're going to see a whole wide range of products coming from a wide range of manufacturers. It's going to inject a little bit of confusion in the consumers' minds as to "oh my gosh, which device?"
    But the reality is consumers are going to have the ability to choose the best two or three devices to meet their needs. In some cases people will want a desktop, a padlike device and a very small, basic feature phone they can always fit in their pocket no matter what they're wearing.
    The flip side is somebody may say I want a notebook and I need a smartphone.
    It's really about allowing people to pick the two or three devices that they want and so the sizes, shapes and capabilities of all these devices are going to vary. Do you want a Pre3 [phone] and a TouchPad or do you need a laptop and a whatever?

    these are the words of ol' Phil McKinney himself lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  10. #50  
    Anyone know what the difference between an iOS developer and a webOS developer is? One measures optimization in milliseconds, the other measures in seconds.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    You are splitting hairs here Micah, everyone has a bias. However the author stating that he likes the webOS experience or even believes it to be superior doesn't negate the points he makes on the specs or features.
    It does, actually. The experience of WebOS differs wildly on different hardware even with the same version of OS. A 1.4.5 Palm Pixi is not as fast or media-saavy as 1.4.5 Palm Pre which is not as stable or abundant - memorywise - as a 1.4.5 Palm Pre Plus which is not as fast or responsive as a 1Ghz Palm Pre 2 running an entirely different version which is ostensibly slower than a Palm Pre 3.....

    They all run WebOS, yet users can and do get experiences with these devices that are all over the map. So how can this user's experience on WebOS on a piece of older hardware accurately mirror a TouchPad WebOS experience which isn't even complete yet and has only been shown in controlled demos meant to highlight the most attractive and finished parts running on brand new hardware and a new screen size with no gesture area? Could someone who bought a T-Mobile G1 and only used that really accurately describe what it's like to use a Honeycomb tablet just based on some Google demos?

    Numerous tech reviews have reviewed webOS over the last couple of years and stated that it is one of the best mobile OS experiences they have seen if not the best and has huge potential. Their complaints though have been rooted in hardware and a lack of apps in the catalog. So when those other factors were considered it left webOS lacking.

    That doesn't appear to be the case here and the author points out the reasons he feels are most compelling. When it launches it may actually perform different, but right now he has a fair appraisal based on what he has to compare.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    It's already different. Navigation is different. Notifications are different. Flash is different. The app framework is different. Before we even get to a finished product beyond demos, a lot has changed. None of this is finished, mind you, but he's making a decision with incomplete information anyway.
  12. #52  
    Do these forums really always need to get so heated. Some people just get too worked up over this kind of stuff. Look, this is a webOS enthusiasts forum, yes there is going to be webOS bias. What's the problem? Go to a Harley Davidson forum and you will see the same thing. You can debate things without calling names and putting other people's opinions down. I don't even know why some of the people on here bother coming to a webOS forum...
  13. #53  
    I agree that we should all dial it back a bit. There seems to be a lot of frayed nerves around here sense the announcement. WebOS supporters who are normally level headed and up for a good discussion seem to snap at everyone and take offense at everything that doesn't praise the new offerings. Perhaps non-WebOS users are more annoying these days. I don't know. But It's not much fun these days.

    Consider the title of the article. How are we to discuss it without devolving into this? Discuss the merits of the article, itself, and that is seen as a personal attack. Discuss the points in the article, and it becomes nitpicking over tangential details. Nothing is safe to discuss. That is truly frustrating. At this rate, each thread should be one post long. That post should be whatever the OP has to say with no input by anyone else. God forbid if you disagree, or wish to offer an opposing view. At that point, you're not just someone who disagrees; you are the enemy.

    I'm not sure where I went wrong. The article made a claim about the TP being faster than the current iPad. I have showed examples where that is not the case. Heck, YouTube is full of them. The best example was posted on the front page of PC. Scrolling in Mail, swiping in Photos, and most everything else in that video was laggy. A large number of the comments made reference to that. I don't even point that out as a bad think. The unit is not ready to be held up to comparative scrutiny. I wouldn't make the comparison. The article did.

    Somehow, some people took that personally. It is not personal. It is not a reflection of you or what I think of you. It is a discussion on a discussion board about opinions of a potentially polarizing article. I edited one of my posts to try and take the sting out of it after some people were apparently offended by my calling it a hit piece. I certainly did not mean that in a bad way. That is just a category of article. No offense was intended, and I apologize for any offense cause.

    But that is nothing compared to the bitterness, defensiveness, and vitriol being spewed around here on a daily basis. I'm not going to go away. This is one of the best places on the net for people with differing platform preferences to gather. The discussions are usually much richer and more informative here. But not sense the announcement. It has been war.

    Is it possible to regain a bit more temperance and tolerance, as well as sensitivity for opposing views? I hope so. I don't think I am alone in my frustration. In the infamous words of Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"

    David
    Last edited by dandbj13; 02/14/2011 at 11:02 PM.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dew View Post
    Thanks pastorrich1, for posting this. I'm the writer of this article and appreciate all your comments.

    Just to let you guys know, I didn't leave the iPad 2 out of my thought process. I just felt that even if the iPad 2 features comparable or even better specs (cameras, retina display and whatnot), the TouchPad would still be a better device all round because of webOS and Flash support. Hardware is always changing but the core experience webOS offers beats any competition IMO.

    Well written my WebOS brotheren,I think there is a spec sheet out there that said the ipad 2 will not have retina display,I know I read that the ipad2 wil have the same resolution as the ipad1.I have to find that article.As a matter of you could probably google ipad2 specifications and find an insider spilling the beans.
  15. Cringer's Avatar
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    #55  
    Typing this on an iPad I just got tonight for the soccer club I run. This will be nice for that purpose I believe, but I do not enjoy iOS at all so far. Some of the main apps, like calendar and contacts, seem like they could be much more intuitive and less 'tap, move finger, tap' and have a better over UI.

    If the TouchPad isn't better then this then I see little reason to ever own a tablet/pad of any kind for personal use. I think the touchpad will be what I am after in a tablet. I hope anyways, no gesture area will suck though.
    Apps:

    Turn the Dial Radio Directory (Phones)
    8-bit Miner (TouchPad)
    Turn the Dial Digital Edition (TouchPad)
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post

    Consider the title of the article. How are we to discuss it without devolving into this? Discuss the merits of the article, itself, and that is seen as a personal attack. Discuss the points in the article, and it becomes nitpicking over tangential details. Nothing is safe to discuss. That is truly frustrating. At this rate, each thread should be one post long. That post should be whatever the OP has to say with no input by anyone else. God forbid if you disagree, or wish to offer an opposing view. At that point, you're not just someone who disagrees; you are the enemy.
    At the risk of heading off the topic, I'd like to offer an answer.... on how we can discuss the content of an article, even if you don't agree with what the author says. Here are some examples:

    Original Post: Here is an article about why the TouchPad is better than the iPad...

    Good: This article says the TouchPad has unmatched GPU performance for gaming and video playback. Does that mean that the GPU is finally being fully supported in webOS?

    Good: Apparently this is the first device to use this dual-core Snapdragon. Has anyone been able to find any benchmark data comparing Snapdragon or multi-core processors to what is in the iPad? How much improvement is a function of clock speed vs. having a second core?

    Not so much: Ya, well HP wasn't smart enough to get the TP shipped before the iPad2, so it's a waste of time to talk about the current iPad. And it's pretty safe to say that the author hasn't actually tried the TouchPad yet...

    Not so much: It's a ridiculous comparison. A second CPU core isn't going to make a difference to buyers or make a dent in market share for a product that has already sold millions. And based on youtube videos, saying the TP is faster is rubbish.

    Not so much: One of the items isn't even true. Even if the connection between the TouchPad and the TouchStone is wireless, there is still a wire connecting it to the wall outlet. It's just not honest to call that wireless.

    Hopefully that provides a bit of detail on how to discuss the content of an article without crucifying the author, or shifting the focus to a product so glorious that there is no point in HP trying to compete, or doubting the marital status of the OP's parents (I got that last part from Bill Cosby).

    So before class tomorrow, everyone should write a 2500 word thesis on posting discussions/critiques in public forums without making others cry.

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 02/15/2011 at 12:56 AM.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Anyone know what the difference between an iOS developer and a webOS developer is? One measures optimization in milliseconds, the other measures in seconds.
    Alot of developers don't solely develop to one platform... Many that develop for webOS also develop for iOS and Android.
  18. #58  
    I'm going to have to agree with mikah, comparing what the TP is right now (vapor until it releases) against a piece of hardware that's been in the market for a year is disingenuous.

    Anyone who follows this knows, Apple will announce a new iPad sometime in the next 30-60 days. That device will more than likely RELEASE BEFORE the Touchpad. That's your direct competition.

    I would like to see Palm compete here. They have some great ideas. But underestimating the device they are competing against is going to have the same net effect that the 3GS did.

    I have the sickening feeling the Pre launch is happening all over again. Announce too early, stack your specs against the a generation prior, release late and get pummeled.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I'm having a bad case of Deja vu.
  19. Olidie's Avatar
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    #59  
    Favorite quote:

    "If this were a feature in the iPad, it would be hailed the second coming. With webOS, innovation is not a feature, it’s just there for you to enjoy."
    Last edited by olidie; 02/15/2011 at 05:07 PM.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post

    ....
    Not so much: One of the items isn't even true. Even if the connection between the TouchPad and the TouchStone is wireless, there is still a wire connecting it to the wall outlet. It's just not honest to call that wireless.
    ........
    I've seen this nonsensical argument before. By your reasoning, if the Touchstone was battery powered, then it would be wireless charging. What the!!!! Of course IT IS wireless charging. There is no wire connected to the device being charged.
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