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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    We been through this before - I think Mikah, like me, thinks it's fundamentally dishonest to compare unreleased tech with tech that people are using. It is impossible to get a full view of the touchpad because it's untouched by users at this point.

    A review based on extensive usage of both is useful, otherwise it's a waste of electrons.
    I think it's fundamentally dishonest to say that about something written in the blog-o-sphere. I've gotta throw a "say whu?" flag on this. If you really posted that with a straight face, then you need to track down every article written about the Galaxy Tab or RIM Playbook before they shipped that made any comparisons to iPad or (egad) may have suggested something they did BETTER than the iPad.

    Intellectually dishonest? Somehow I think I was just intellectually insulted. Wow. Just wow.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 02/14/2011 at 02:55 PM.
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I think it's fundamentally dishonest to say that about something written in the blog-o-sphere. I've gotta through a "say whu?" flag on this. If you really posted that with a straight face, then you need to track down every article written about the Galaxy Tab or RIM Playbook before they shipped that made any comparisons to iPad or (egad) may have suggested something they did BETTER than the iPad.

    Intellectually dishonest? Somehow I think I was just intellectually insulted. Wow. Just wow.

    The blogsphere is full of crap - no surprise there.
  3. #23  
    Ya know, I have been pouring through the ipad2 rumors and the closer it gets to release, the less and less it is impressive. Originally, it was supposed to have super high resolution, now its going to be the same as the ipad1. Retna display...nixed. Its going to be faster than the original ipad and possibly more ram, but it just doesn't seem like that much of an upgrade.

    Also, with rumors now that the ipad 3 is coming out in the fall, it seems to me that the ipad2 is going to be pretty much a fail, at least in the apple sense. The Touchpad will have a faster CPU, better graphics performance, same screen size, have the same resolution, and possibly the same ram.

    The rumors also peg the ipad2 coming out in April, but only to Apple stores. It won't go into the big box stores until October. If this is true, then the Touchpad is in great shape given HPs presence in all major retailers.

    The only thing that HP has to overcome is the apps. If they continue to be serious, who knows what could happen between now and summer.

    Also, Touchpad pricing rumors has it around $699. However, there is a subtle difference between an HP pricing of $699 to an Apple pricing of $699 on the street. Generally, Apple devices do not have much deviation from MSRP. HP has shown that they are willing to tolerate price flux within its retail chain, not to mention 'bundle pricing' (i.e. buy a PC get a printer for less...or even free). HP as a corporation is big enough to absorb this kind of price strategy.

    Finally, I have a feeling that ipad users will skip the ipad2 iteration and those who are new to the market will seriously consider Touchpad (HP could do themselves a big favor by being competitive in pricing to attract new, potential, ipad customers). I think that once people use WebOS, they may be content not going with ipad.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    A review based on extensive usage of both is useful, a review by someone who's not actually touched one of the devices is a waste of electrons.

    Should we also say that criticism from someone who also hasn't touched or seen one of the devices is extremely valuable?

    And since I've touched both devices. Does that make my post priceless? What should I think about someone who writes an editorial on the war in Iraq if they haven't been there?

    I'm gonna need a nap.
  5. #25  
    If we want to compare the tablets that Apple and Palm offer today that would be the iPad vs. nothing.

    By this summer the TouchPad and Ipad 2 are expected. We do not know for a fact the release dates, prices, or carriers for either. Until someone can buy either one, we are comparing "futures".

    The iPad 2 is expected to be announced this month and to be available before the TouchPad. Here are some clips from a recent Wall Street Journal article on the iPad 2 from 2/9/11. The WSJ's Apple "leaks" are almost always dead on.

    Apple Inc. has started manufacturing a new version of its iPad tablet computer with a built-in camera and faster processor, said people familiar with the matter.

    ...The new iPad will be thinner and lighter than the first model, these people said. It will have at least one camera on the front of the device for features like video-conferencing, but the resolution of the display will be similar to the first iPad, these people said. It will also have more memory and a more powerful graphics processor, they said.

    ...The new iPad will initially be available through Verizon Wireless and AT&T Inc...
    Other iPad 2 tidbits from TechRadar last week:

    • Apple has ordered six million units per month.
    • iPad 2 has apparently been spotted. Reuters reports...
    • Gizmodo reckons that FaceTime support's a given
    BuzzBizzNews echoes the camera story, suggesting twin cameras.
    • Images of a new iPad case appeared online, suggesting an iPad 2 rear camera.
    • ...a MicroUSB port or adapter so the iPad meets new EU regulations on mobile device chargers.
    • On 17 January 2011, we also reported on said SD clard slot.
    • Next gen iOS for tablets, other new features beyond Find My Friends
    • More internal memory

    A smaller 7" iPad "Nano" is expected in September as a companion product.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 02/14/2011 at 03:43 PM.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Two features are missing. It isn't a nice aluminum color, and it doesn't have the image of an apple embossed on the back. Also, I was really annoyed that Ruby didn't wear a black turtleneck when he introduced it. What was he thinking?
    LOL.

    People dont realize that what HP did with the TouchPad was hand you a Gift!

    I dont think well will see specs like that from apple until the iPad 3! What HP has gone and done is give us a TouchPad in name only but in reality a TouchPad 2 in terms of hardware.

    Same with the Pre 3. iPhone 4 only has a 1ghz processor Pre 3 has 40% faster clock. You won't see an iPhone 5 much faster. ...MAYYYBE 1.5ghz(forget dual core will kill battery) if they are lucky. possibly a a bit higher resolution camera. but overall it wont be any faster than the Pre 3,

    Oh and of course a much coveted non-removable battery, which will need to be replaced even faster, due to the increased drain from better hardware, but you know...can't be.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dew View Post
    I saw no harm in giving webOS a bit of much needed publicity and morale boosting at the expense of the already accomplished iPad
    This is all you needed to say. Just a little innocent iPad bashing and WebOS boosting. Facts or logical premise not required.

    About those facts, all of the features on the TP are not complete. There is no Beats audio right now, and they do not have a video calling partner yet. Flash was not working on the demo. They just showed a video of Flash working.

    The actual demos of the TP were running much slower than any iPad. those are the facts. Let us not confuse that with what we hope to be true six months down the road. Nothing wrong with this type of article, but let's not try to disguise it as an objective comparison.
    Last edited by dandbj13; 02/14/2011 at 05:05 PM. Reason: less strident language.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is all you needed to say. Just a little innocent iPad bashing and WebOS boosting. Facts or logical premise not required.

    About those facts, all of the features on the TP are not complete. There is no Beats audio right now, and they do not have a video calling partner yet. Flash was not working on the demo. They just showed a video of Flash working.

    The actual demos of the TP were running much slower than any iPad. those are the facts. Let us not confuse that with what we hope to be true six months down the road. Nothing wrong with a hit piece, but let's not try to disguise it as an objective comparison.
    You thought an article called: "Top 10 Reasons why the HP Touchpad is Better than the iPad" was going to be an objective comparison?

    By all means, call the dude out for inaccuracies (#10 is legit, apple does offer ePrint, and as of now we don't know how much more expansive WebOS's version will be, if at all). But don't call him a liar. Keep it civil.
  9. #29  
    <edited reference>

    Having an ulterior motive does not automatically invalidate otherwise legitimate points. So why don't we go back to talking about the points themselves and not call people names.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 02/14/2011 at 06:03 PM. Reason: removed analogy referring to deleted post
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    You thought an article called: "Top 10 Reasons why the HP Touchpad is Better than the iPad" was going to be an objective comparison?

    By all means, call the dude out for inaccuracies (#10 is legit, apple does offer ePrint, and as of now we don't know how much more expansive WebOS's version will be, if at all). But don't call him a liar. Keep it civil.
    I read this article before it hit here. I did not find anything in it that rocked my world but I also didn't find it to be distorting or misleading. The title was a bit over the top but honestly that's media.

    My own thinking on this is that the article was positive without being a major departure from reality. Anyone who reads this without any webOS background will likely look farther into things and that's not a bad thing. No one is likely to make a purchase of a pad without learning a lot more than a short article like this is able to encompass.

    Caveat emptor... and the article was free.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I'm kinda with Mikah here. Let's stick to linking credible sources. Sounds like someone just blogging his opinion.
    OK, time to stop using pejoratives like "liar" or "hit job" or "unprofessional".

    The man is just doing his job. You are all welcome to hire on or start a blog or have your wisdom published.

    I have a lot more to say, but I will show some restraint.
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Where I come from, it's called a spec sheet. I'm pretty sure the iPad 2 has finished hardware and locked specs if they are manufacturing it for a 12-month refresh cycle. But it is not a finished product to consumers. Merely a concept. Hopefully, that clears things up.



    Oh, so the TouchPad has been bookmarked and objectively proven to be both "faster" and "smarter" than an iPad 2? Really? Has anyone put the media app through its paces? Last I heard, it was a static screenshot that no hands-on demo has gone beyond. But who cares about media on a tablet, right?



    LG Revolution gets Fulton inductive charging back, HTC and Samsung handsets joining the party soon -- Engadget
    1. The iPad 2 is only RUMORED to be being manufactured from all that I have seen as recent as 2/9/11 and we (not in the know) cannot consider specs to be locked if they haven't been published, and they haven't.

    2. I think you meant "bench-marked" instead of "bookmarked". But aside from that, the article didn't claim it was faster and smarter than the iPad 2. He cited the CPU, GPU and RAM specs of the TouchPad and said those resources are faster and smarter than those in the iPad. Considering the difference in the age of the technology, one could make a reasonable assumption that it is a fair comparison.

    3. With regard to media playback and static screen shots. I stood right over the top of one playing flash media flawlessly in a web browser, it scaled perfectly when zoomed in either direction, and even when maximized to full screen. I have also seen unpublished reports of HD flash media running flawlessly. No static screen shots here.

    4. Lastly one device finally gets an inductive charging back and others are on the way, hardly compare to the fact that Palm has been doing it for nearly two years now very successfully and are expanding that technology in some very cool ways using the same charging puck with exhibition coming in the next release of webOS.

    I personally like sticking to the facts very much.
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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    But aside from that, the article didn't claim it was faster and smarter than the iPad 2. He cited the CPU, GPU and RAM specs of the TouchPad and said those resources are faster and smarter than those in the iPad. Considering the difference in the age of the technology, one could make a reasonable assumption that it is a fair comparison.
    Perhaps you had an experience that wasn't caught on video. From what they demoed on stage, and what others managed to record in the demo area after the presentation, the TP was very sluggish. It was not faster than the current iPad.

    It has much higher specs. It is reasonable to believe that it might be faster. But, then again, the original Pre should have been at least as fast as the iPhone, but never was. Perhaps the software optimization will happen.

    Yet, the sluggishness might be due to lower-grade sensor technology under the screen. The point is we don't know. We can logically assume it will be faster. But as of now, it is not faster. In terms of a consumer product, it doesn't yet exist. When it comes out, we can see how it compares to the first iPad, if anyone still cares.
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    If we want to compare the tablets that Apple and Palm offer today that would be the iPad vs. nothing.
    Actually since the specs for the TouchPad have been released and are published as well as many features and functions that are already part of a known operating system the author can compare the two devices on those merits. The TouchPad is not a unicorn, many of us have seen it firsthand doing most if not all of the things the OP cited.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    By this summer the TouchPad and Ipad 2 are expected. We do not know for a fact the release dates, prices, or carriers for either. Until someone can buy either one, we are comparing "futures".
    Again the author has the right and or journalistic privilege of comparing whichever devices he chooses. He chose the iPad because it is the leader of the pack, not some weakling he can simply kick sand in the face of. He did not choose the iPad 2, Apple hasnt even announced it yet much less published specs. HP has done both for the TouchPad, and some have even gotten hands on previews. Obviously performance head to head may be different but that will be known at a later time. Right now it is simply a comparison of published specs and known/demonstrated features.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    The iPad 2 is expected to be announced this month and to be available before the TouchPad. Here are some clips from a recent Wall Street Journal article on the iPad 2 from 2/9/11. The WSJ's Apple "leaks" are almost always dead on.
    This obviously explains why the Verizon iPhone was rumored to release any time for over a year before it actually did.

    As for the rest of the citations in your post they all deal with the iPad 2 which the article cited in the OP said nothing about. In fact there is so much iPad 2 info in your post that I am tempted to report it for being off topic, but doubt it would matter much.
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  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Perhaps you had an experience that wasn't caught on video. From what they demoed on stage, and what others managed to record in the demo area after the presentation, the TP was very sluggish. It was not faster than the current iPad.

    It has much higher specs. It is reasonable to believe that it might be faster. But, then again, the original Pre should have been at least as fast as the iPhone, but never was. Perhaps the software optimization will happen.

    Yet, the sluggishness might be due to lower-grade sensor technology under the screen. The point is we don't know. We can logically assume it will be faster. But as of now, it is not faster. In terms of a consumer product, it doesn't yet exist. When it comes out, we can see how it compares to the first iPad, if anyone still cares.
    Hundreds of people had experiences not caught on video. Were you there to see it first hand? And I am sure lots of people will care if it compares to the iPad since they all won't rush out immediately and buy iPad 2's when they launch. There are still millions using iPhone 3G and 3Gs.

    But since we can logically assume that 1.4 GHz is faster than 1 GHz and 1 GB of RAM will allow for more readily accessible data than does 256 MB, and a more modern GPU will handle graphic data better than an older one, I would say the Author has made a fair assumption in specs comparison. As would most other technofiles. We won't how it performs until we can put them side by side and truly test. He did however give Apple credit right up front and said the iPad is one great piece of hardware.

    And concerning software optimization... yes it is optimized. The framework is new and demonstrably faster than the older framework that was in the Pre. There are already great improvements in webOS 2.0.x and even more coming in 3.0 which is on the Tablet.
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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    Hundreds of people had experiences not caught on video. Were you there to see it first hand?
    No.

    Are you saying that your non-recorded, eyes on demo showed the TP as snappy, without a hint of sluggishness? Because that is not what is circulating on the web.
  17. #37  
    wow did this thread go astray or what lol glad it got cleaned up !!
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  18. #38  
    I think the point is, either you can either compare the future (two products that don't yet exist, in this case) to the present (one product that does exist, to one that doesn't).



    Truth be told, one CAN do whatever one wants of course, but from a perspective of trying to appear objective, you can't have it both ways.
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is all you needed to say. Just a little innocent iPad bashing and WebOS boosting. Facts or logical premise not required.

    About those facts, all of the features on the TP are not complete. There is no Beats audio right now, and they do not have a video calling partner yet. Flash was not working on the demo. They just showed a video of Flash working.

    The actual demos of the TP were running much slower than any iPad. those are the facts. Let us not confuse that with what we hope to be true six months down the road. Nothing wrong with this type of article, but let's not try to disguise it as an objective comparison.
    Actually he does base it on the technical specs of both devices which you have admitted in a later post is a reasonable assumption for comparison.

    He also doesn't engage in iPad bashing. He actually said it was a great piece of hardware. He just feels the TP will be better.

    Concerning the Flash video, I and hundreds of others saw flash video working firsthand, not a video of flash working.

    Since the actual demos of the TP were not done along side any iPad, then no conclusions can be drawn or measured except that the hardware specs for the TP are higher than the hardware specs for the iPad and as you have already conceded one could reasonably assume that the TP would outperform the iPad, but again we will know when the TP is released and can be compared head to head.
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  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    No.

    Are you saying that your non-recorded, eyes on demo showed the TP as snappy, without a hint of sluggishness? Because that is not what is circulating on the web.
    Yes, my non recording eyes (upgrade planned in the near future) didn't perceive any sluggishness in the TP. That is in fact what I am saying. If someone with recording eyes has something different I would like to see it.
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