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  1.    #1  
    Good article on true multitasking... will the true multitasker please stand up.

    iPad competitors: Will the true multitasking please stand up? | TiPb


    Sfm Evo
  2. #2  
    Regardless of how the end user perceives multitasking, save state pause is not multitasking. True multitasking is more than one program running at the same time. Apple does this in a clunky way with a few programs. Webos does it elegantly with most apps. If it weren't so important then apple wouldn't keep trying to implement it with their os.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    If it weren't so important then apple wouldn't keep trying to implement it with their os.
    Or, to put it more appropriately, if battery life wasn't important, then Apple would do multitasking with every program (like you can when you jailbreak an iOS device) if it didn't burn up batteries like a ... well ... a Pre.
    Last edited by Kupe; 02/14/2011 at 03:28 PM.
  4. #4  
    I really wish people would stop misrepresenting how other platforms multitask. The simple fact is that there are multiple ways of skinning the cat. Even webOS uses more than one way internally, i.e. some apps continue to run in the background and some (3D games) go into save state. The recommendation for Mojo apps is that you use the activate/deactivate callbacks to reduce the workload of your app when it goes into card view. Even Palm (though they haven't admitted it in their marketing) recognizes that simply having everything running all the time on a mobile device is not always the best option. Likewise, not every app goes into save-state on other platforms.

    In the end, if the end user can do multiple things at the same time, you have a winner. The rest of the "we're the only ones with true multitasking" argument is pretty much moot at this point.
  5.    #5  
    [QUOTE=taharka;2868969] In the end, if the end user can do multiple things at the same time, you have a winner. The rest of the "we're the only ones with true multitasking" argument is pretty much moot at this point.[/QUOTE ]

    I agree with the moot statement, soon all the OSes will have some sort of card multitasking then what will be webOS trump card? Preware!

    Sfm Evo
  6. #6  
    I'm tired of all these articles that try to explain away various "multitasking" solutions with excuses that generally boil down to "what's it matter, you're only doing one thing at a time anyway, so our background/freeze solution is just as good as yours".

    Except that it isn't. The best multitasking solution is the one that allows ME, the user, to multitask. Not just the OS. If the OS itself multitasks, that's cool. But that's not really helping me if I can't juggle multiple tasks easily. The reason why webOS gets it, and other OSes don't, is that in webOS it is trivially easy for me to do multiple things at once. For example, I can decide to tell Pandora that I really like what it's playing for me while in the middle of typing an email. I can launch a web site, swipe back to Keyring, copy a password, and by the time I swipe back to the web site the page is loaded waiting for me to paste the password.

    While on a road trip, I can put my phone on my car's touchstone, and have it stream Pandora or play music on the way, while simultaneously giving me GPS turn-by-turn directions. And as if that isn't enough, I can run Trapster simultaneously to help avoid police speed traps. I don't even have to juggle back and forth, since I'm listening to the Navigation while looking at the Trapster map, and I don't have to switch apps to control my music when I want to. WebOS knows when to lower the music volume so that it can tell me I'm approaching my exit. If I get a text message or email on the way, I instantly see who it's from and what it says without even having to touch my phone, and yet it doesn't intrude on what I'm currently running. It can notify me that I'm running late on my calendar appointment, and with ONE tap I can let coworkers know that I'm running a bit late. Without having to switch tasks.

    There is NO other platform, I repeat, NO OTHER PLATFORM, that allows me, the user, to multitask nearly as efficiently as webOS does. They're all finding ways for the OS to multitask, but they're not quite as effective at helping the USER multitask. And that's where webOS wins.
  7. ijip's Avatar
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    #7  
    agree!! xcompman!!!
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by xcomputerman View Post
    There is NO other platform, I repeat, NO OTHER PLATFORM, that allows me, the user, to multitask nearly as efficiently as webOS does. They're all finding ways for the OS to multitask, but they're not quite as effective at helping the USER multitask. And that's where webOS wins.
    And yet I do the same things with ease on Android all the time. In fact, I often do it without even touching my phone in the frist place. Keep asserting that no other platform can do it if you think that will win you points but the fact is that statement is simply not true. Here's a real use case of mine that I posted in another thread of how I use my EVO while biking and multitasking without taking the phone out of my backpack.

    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    On my bike rides I do similar things. I launch my tracking app and it automatically launchess my music app to a predetermined playlist when I start my workout. I take phone calls and the music pauses. When my tracker is giving me distance/speed readouts, the music volume is lowered. My notification sounds play in my Bluetooth headset and my text messages and emails can be read to me. All this time, my Android phone is in my backpack and out of reach.

    True multitasking is being able to perform tasks on my phone AND in my life without worries. It's kind of hard to use "cards" on a bike.
    Cards are pretty cool but they don't cover every use case. For some reason, people here need to believe it's webOS' way or the wrong way. The truth is, there are many ways and that's part of the reason Palm (and now HP) isn't winning many new consumers over solely based on the "true multitasking" lie.
  9. trickyhero's Avatar
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    #9  
    I agree, WebOS is the best at multi-tasking. Even though it's now copied to death, copying is the biggest form of praise. Or somthing like that Ninjaed.

    Also I don't think that ANYONE can get people over because they multitask or how. It dosn't matter to most people. It's great that your android phone does that, I like both Android and WebOS.
  10. #10  
    I've edited this quote to show you how easy it is to do the same thing (and more) on another platform. See red inserts
    Quote Originally Posted by xcomputerman View Post
    .
    While on a road trip, I can put my phone on my car's touchstone, and have it stream Pandora or play music on the way, while simultaneously giving me GPS turn-by-turn directions. I do this with my EVO all the time but webOS get's a cool point for the use of the (very cool) Touchstone. And as if that isn't enough, I can run Trapster simultaneously to help avoid police speed traps. I don't use Trapster anymore, but it worked just as well in the same situation. I don't even have to juggle back and forth, since I'm listening to the Navigation while looking at the Trapster map, and I don't have to switch apps to control my music when I want to. Same thing on Android. webOS get's a cool point for music control in notifications, but you can put your music control widget on a homescreen or on a slide over screen like QuickDesk for Android. WebOS knows when to lower the music volume so that it can tell me I'm approaching my exit. Same thing on Android. Music is lowered for readouts or calls. If I get a text message or email on the way, I instantly see who it's from and what it says without even having to touch my phone, and yet it doesn't intrude on what I'm currently running. That's cool on webOS. It's not as cool as the fact the on Android, that incoming SMS (or email) can be read out to you so you can keep your eyes on the dang road. Imagine that! You don't have to quit your real world task in order to "multitask on your phone". It can notify me that I'm running late on my calendar appointment, and with ONE tap I can let coworkers know that I'm running a bit late. Without having to switch tasks. Pretty sweet. But I'm not limited to a canned "I'm running late" message because I can dictate an SMS or email with my voice while keeping my eyes on the road.
    I have done every one of these things personally and easily on a device that does not run webOS. In fact I did most of these on my last trip out of town with the family. Perhaps my EVO "thought" it was running webOS and this was all a mistake. I mean, I have kept it in the same pocket I used to keep my Pre in, so maybe it's having an identity crisis.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I've edited this quote to show you how easy it is to do the same thing (and more) on another platform. See red inserts


    I have done every one of these things personally and easily on a device that does not run webOS. In fact I did most of these on my last trip out of town with the family. Perhaps my EVO "thought" it was running webOS and this was all a mistake. I mean, I have kept it in the same pocket I used to keep my Pre in, so maybe it's having an identity crisis.
    I am fully aware that Android has homescreen widgets. But even as you admitted, they are no substitute for webOS notifications. It's nice that there is an app that can automatically read out incoming texts and emails, but man, that would get annoying really quick and would only be useful in selective situations. I certainly wouldn't want my phone loudly broadcasting every incoming text if I had friends/family in the car, for example, or if I was at work.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm fan of Android as well. If anything, it at least addresses multitasking in ways where Apple's iOS simply refuses to. In fact, if you look at my recent posts you'll see that I am actually planning to buy an Android phone pretty soon in the mean time while I wait for HP to get their act together. But while Android may get some points for having some 3rd party solutions that help to make multitasking easier, it just simply doesn't come together easily and intuitively the way webOS does.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by xcomputerman View Post
    I am fully aware that Android has homescreen widgets. But even as you admitted, they are no substitute for webOS notifications. It's nice that there is an app that can automatically read out incoming texts and emails, but man, that would get annoying really quick and would only be useful in selective situations. I certainly wouldn't want my phone loudly broadcasting every incoming text if I had friends/family in the car, for example, or if I was at work.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm fan of Android as well. If anything, it at least addresses multitasking in ways where Apple's iOS simply refuses to. In fact, if you look at my recent posts you'll see that I am actually planning to buy an Android phone pretty soon in the mean time while I wait for HP to get their act together. But while Android may get some points for having some 3rd party solutions that help to make multitasking easier, it just simply doesn't come together easily and intuitively the way webOS does.
    This is why it is silly to assume that there is only one right way to multitask. You've stated that reading things aloud would get annoying in some situations but for some reason you're not willing to admit that having to flip through cards gets annoying in others. I can't flip cards easily while biking. You shouldn't be flipping cards while driving (though flipping birds is allowed in some cases; like when you are almost hit by another driver who is busy flipping through cards ). The point of my response was not to say one platform is better than the other; rather to contest the assertion that "no other platform" allows for easy multitasking.

    By the way, webOS' notifications are nice, but they are not perfect. See what happens when you get 3 or four of them while you are using an app that happens not to resize well. I like notifications better on Android and on the TouchPad (webOS 3.x). In fact, webOS 3's notifications seem almost perfect. Current webOS notifications, however, are still very obtrusive at times.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    This is why it is silly to assume that there is only one right way to multitask. You've stated that reading things aloud would get annoying in some situations but for some reason you're not willing to admit that having to flip through cards gets annoying in others. I can't flip cards easily while biking. You shouldn't be flipping cards while driving (though flipping birds is allowed in some cases; like when you are almost hit by another driver who is busy flipping through cards ). The point of my response was not to say one platform is better than the other; rather to contest the assertion that "no other platform" allows for easy multitasking.

    By the way, webOS' notifications are nice, but they are not perfect. See what happens when you get 3 or four of them while you are using an app that happens not to resize well. I like notifications better on Android and on the TouchPad (webOS 3.x). In fact, webOS 3's notifications seem almost perfect. Current webOS notifications, however, are still very obtrusive at times.
    Fair points, although while I certainly don't bike, it is quite difficult to think of common real world scenarios in which the card system would be annoying. I've spent some time using Froyo on a Dell Streak, and it's just not the same when it comes to ease of use and intuitiveness. And I do disagree about notifications becoming a problem when they stack: they're not permanently on the screen except when the screen is locked -- they are all minimized to a single bar just like Android. And disposing of them is as easy as a flick. I agree that the Android perma-bar has its advantages there, but the utility of instantly seeing the useful information you need easily trumps that. In fact, that's one of the things I'll probably miss the most on webOS: hearing that ding and being able to glance at my phone and know what it's about without even touching it. And as far as automotive safety goes, I certainly still prefer the convenience of getting most stuff done in one swipe and tap than having to set up audio dictation and TTS for everything (not to mention how it would probably butcher most of the non-English names I deal with).

    Again, I am more than willing to give Android its points. If I weren't a fan, I wouldn't have $300 in my wallet right now to spend on a new Evo. The post was in response to the "oh come on, iOS does all the multitasking you need just fine" article, but I do stand by my point that webOS does it better than every other OS, including Android.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by xcomputerman View Post
    Fair points, although while I certainly don't bike, it is quite difficult to think of common real world scenarios in which the card system would be annoying.
    What many people fail to realize on this board is that for most general consumers, cards are a foreign thing. For many, it's even considered unintuitive and a detractor.

    I tried selling my sister and mom on a Pre last summer, both of who were long-time iPhone users, but they just didn't understand webOS.

    Besides us tech pundits who are categorized as "power users", your non-tech pundit uses their device as a phone first and foremost. The other stuff (apps primarily) are just cool because it extends the capabilities of their phone.
  15. #15  
    Lovely...comeback of the night
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    This is why it is silly to assume that there is only one right way to multitask. You've stated that reading things aloud would get annoying in some situations but for some reason you're not willing to admit that having to flip through cards gets annoying in others. I can't flip cards easily while biking. You shouldn't be flipping cards while driving (though flipping birds is allowed in some cases; like when you are almost hit by another driver who is busy flipping through cards ).
  16. #16  
    Is it possible on android to be in a web browser streaming audio, then you go to check mail or something and it still continue to play?

    I tried this on a buddy's Evo and the answer was no, just wondering if there is a workaround. A case of savestate instead of continue to run in background...
    Treo 650 > HTC Mogul > HTC Touch Diamond > BB Curve > Palm PRE > HTC Evo + BB Bold
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by giograves View Post
    Is it possible on android to be in a web browser streaming audio, then you go to check mail or something and it still continue to play?

    I tried this on a buddy's Evo and the answer was no, just wondering if there is a workaround. A case of savestate instead of continue to run in background...
    I just tried this. Worked fine. Went to the browser and started streaming music from pandora (the web not the app). Bounced around in a couple other applications including email and the music continued playing. I then jumped back the browser and hit the stop button.

    I don't normally stream music from the browser but if you tell me some sites to test, I'll try them out.

    Update: Tried it again, included the Facebook app in the mix and now I'm responding to this post in one tab while Pandora is playing in another. I wanted to make sure I waited long enough for Pandora to change tracks. Works fine.
    Last edited by taharka; 02/16/2011 at 07:26 PM.
  18. #18  
    Do you know if your buddy had the misfortune of running a take killer?
  19. #19  
    Ok, look...

    There's the "geek" understanding of "multitasking and the average user's.

    They are completely different.

    I think Leo Apotheker said it best when he said "its just so easy to multitask".

    Thats the bottom line for WebOS's UI... its extremely intuititive to use the cards to multitask, which brings it closer to being used by the average person, who may feel a little intimidated by android and iOS's methods.

    Whether the other apps are in a saved state or a screen shot is of little importance to the average user - they want ease of use, eaasy access, and simple gestures to make things happen, whether its a button press, a swipe, or a double tap.

    In that light.. iOS has done just fine with its users for "multitasking". Its not REALLY "multitasking" but, they arent complaining, so, thats all that counts.

    Can HP make the ease and purity of WebOS's multitasking with cards so obvious to all users for all smartphones that it DOES become a preferred trait that they cant live without?

    I dunno... thats the marketting company's job, I guess.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Ok, look...

    There's the "geek" understanding of "multitasking and the average user's.

    They are completely different.

    I think Leo Apotheker said it best when he said "its just so easy to multitask".

    Thats the bottom line for WebOS's UI... its extremely intuititive to use the cards to multitask, which brings it closer to being used by the average person, who may feel a little intimidated by android and iOS's methods.

    Whether the other apps are in a saved state or a screen shot is of little importance to the average user - they want ease of use, eaasy access, and simple gestures to make things happen, whether its a button press, a swipe, or a double tap.

    In that light.. iOS has done just fine with its users for "multitasking". Its not REALLY "multitasking" but, they arent complaining, so, thats all that counts.

    Can HP make the ease and purity of WebOS's multitasking with cards so obvious to all users for all smartphones that it DOES become a preferred trait that they cant live without?

    I dunno... thats the marketting company's job, I guess.

    But that's it, Android and iOS have implemented multitasking in a way that the user doesn't even need to think about it. They're multitasking without even realizing it.

    There are 'advanced' features available to both platforms that are for those power users that choose to alter the way they multitask.
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