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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    just a comment.

    you call it intuitive but honestly, on launch day, i used webos and it wasn't instantly intuitive. someone had to explain to us how the gestures work and how to get to the previous page. That swiping up closes. like we kept having fully open apps (not minimized) and tried to swipe up to close. He had to come back to show us how to minimize then swipe up. But it's hardly obvious to someone who has never seen it before. Another thing. I'm used to having a hold button. But the button on a pre doesn't do that, especially now since mine is broke and i've actually forgotten all that it does other then turn the phone off. But i kept trying to kill the touch screen by sliding the button on the pre over. But it doesn't do that it just cuts the ringer off. But i totally remember being frustrated cause there was no back button or home button and i can imagine many people thinking similar things.
    By "hold button" do you mean telephone hold? I suspect that's a carrier issue. None of the phone apps I've had on Sprint had a hold button.

    As far as the intuitiveness of WebOS, I agree, the gestures and gesture area aren't intuitive. No one expects a blank area do "do something". However, the device has an app that walks the user through it, and that app is part of the initialization of the device (in other words, the person setting it up must go through it), so I wouldn't say it's hidden.

    BTW, please note, there's a vast difference between "intuitive" and "easy". Mice weren't initially intuitive, but once a person saw the purpose, they were very simple to use. Same with gestures.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Good to see that you've finally acknowledged something is cool that Apple just doesn't have yet. However, the rest of the statement is simply false. iOS's implementation of multitasking is hardly "just fine". It's extremely limited.
    I'm fine with those limitations, considering iOS can do more than webOS on [every] level. If that's limited, I'll take it.

    Personally, I think one is limited on webOS. Take that how you want.
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I'm fine with those limitations, considering iOS can do more than webOS on [every] level. If that's limited, I'll take it.

    Personally, I think one is limited on webOS. Take that how you want.
    It's a bold statement to say that iOS can do more than webOS on EVERY level... Every OS has different strengths and weaknesses. Absolute statements like that don't add to the discussion imho.
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    By "hold button" do you mean telephone hold? I suspect that's a carrier issue. None of the phone apps I've had on Sprint had a hold button.
    i don't think by "hold" button that's what i mean. I meant the button, like on top of an ipod that you slide, and after that, pressing other buttons on the device do nothing. So you can't accidently change the song or so like the something in you're pocket won't trigger the volume button on full blast, killing your ear drums.


    i can't speak for sprint phones as i had sprint left for like 8 years and only returned for the pre. But i don't dispute your claim. My point was merely to give an example of the learning curve with a new device. That was part of mine. And cause i still use my ipod daily, much more then my phone, i still find myself trying to kill the screen on my pre by turning the ringer off, thinking it's the above hold button.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    As far as the intuitiveness of WebOS, I agree, the gestures and gesture area aren't intuitive. No one expects a blank area do "do something". However, the device has an app that walks the user through it, and that app is part of the initialization of the device (in other words, the person setting it up must go through it), so I wouldn't say it's hidden.
    yep. but i think when a person walks into a store, most of the time they don't get the tutorial. i was only shown it on launch day. In most stores i've been in the pre is just sitting there to be used. Plus i only saw the tutorial cause i asked the guy, "how do i shut this video off so i can try out the phone." lol. Which is probably why it's often not running.

    But if they are initializing the device you've already decided to buy it. The context of the discussion was broadly why people where choosing something other then a pre. So i think if they've gotten to the point of initializing it they've already decided in favor of it so it's not really a big issue.

    but my point, again, was just generally that there is a learning curve for devices, though many may consider it utterly intuitive, a new users deciding to buy the phone or not might find the same things counter-intuitive that i did upon trying the phone out in a store for the first time. I had a similar response to android til i figured out how to go forward and back and where apps where but at first i kept trying to swipe back.


    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    BTW, please note, there's a vast difference between "intuitive" and "easy". Mice weren't initially intuitive, but once a person saw the purpose, they were very simple to use. Same with gestures.
    i don't think i was. was i? i think the post i was referring to said "intuitive" so i was thinking only in that context for a first time user.

    webos undoubtedly has a good interface. I just don't think it's always going to be viewed as intuitive in that short window a person has when they go to a store to buy a phone. not the tech guy but the average person. That's not really a unique to webos either.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by empathyrus View Post
    It's a bold statement to say that iOS can do more than webOS on EVERY level... Every OS has different strengths and weaknesses. Absolute statements like that don't add to the discussion imho.
    Okay, maybe not every level, but close to it. webOS' notifications are a bit less obtrusive. I give it that.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    i don't think by "hold" button that's what i mean. I meant the button, like on top of an ipod that you slide, and after that, pressing other buttons on the device do nothing. So you can't accidently change the song or so like the something in you're pocket won't trigger the volume button on full blast, killing your ear drums.


    i can't speak for sprint phones as i had sprint left for like 8 years and only returned for the pre. But i don't dispute your claim. My point was merely to give an example of the learning curve with a new device. That was part of mine. And cause i still use my ipod daily, much more then my phone, i still find myself trying to kill the screen on my pre by turning the ringer off, thinking it's the above hold button.
    Ahhh, ok. Don't know why it would be called a "hold" button, but on the Pre it's the screen button. Turn off the screen (by pushing a button), and it achieves the same basic effect. Neither is better nor worse (or even more intuitive), just different.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    But if they are initializing the device you've already decided to buy it. The context of the discussion was broadly why people where choosing something other then a pre. So i think if they've gotten to the point of initializing it they've already decided in favor of it so it's not really a big issue.
    Actually, the First Use app (which is what we're talking about) is run by the owner, after the phone is first initialized.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    but my point, again, was just generally that there is a learning curve for devices, though many may consider it utterly intuitive, a new users deciding to buy the phone or not might find the same things counter-intuitive that i did upon trying the phone out in a store for the first time. I had a similar response to android til i figured out how to go forward and back and where apps where but at first i kept trying to swipe back.
    That was what I meant by the difference between "intuitive" and "easy". Both the iPhone and WebOS is simple. iOS is probably marginally more intuitive, but that's because the interface does less. That's the nature of added features. They add functionality, but they also add complexity.

    Apparently some Apple owners even have trouble with a mouse with more than a single button.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Ahhh, ok. Don't know why it would be called a "hold" button, but on the Pre it's the screen button. Turn off the screen (by pushing a button), and it achieves the same basic effect.
    yeah my button is broken so it hasn't worked in more then a year so i actually forgot what it does other then on/off. but even when it did habit just kept making me hit that sliding button thinking it would kill the screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, the First Use app (which is what we're talking about) is run by the owner, after the phone is first initialized.
    yeah i think it can stay on the desktop though as a demo and some stores have it running as such. it was at the store i went to on launch day because i sat playing with one for like 30 minutes and the sprint guy kept hitting the demo on the other pre on display next to me over and over as a tutorial for other people that walked up.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Apparently some Apple owners even have trouble with a mouse with more than a single button.
    yeah i don't for the life of me understand that. and that crappy wafer thin mouse i loathe. *** is that about. I need two buttons. there's even functionality in apple stuff for two buttons.

    edit: wait i can't type W_T_F? but that's not even actually a curse. sorry. how about this: "Well golly gee willikers! What pray tell is going on with those flippidy flappidies?"
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 03/01/2011 at 03:50 AM.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post


    yeah i don't for the life of me understand that. and that crappy wafer thin mouse i loathe. *** is that about. I need two buttons. there's even functionality in apple stuff for two buttons.

    edit: wait i can't type W_T_F? but that's not even actually a curse. sorry. how about this: "Well golly gee willikers! What pray tell is going on with those flippidy flappidies?"
    Since opera started using the middle button to quickly open and close its tabs (and all other browsers copied that feature) also the 3rd button is almost mandatory.

    It works also on the MACs just matter of swapping the subborn apple mices with a decent one.
    Last edited by The Solutor; 03/01/2011 at 08:07 AM.
    -------------------------------------------------

    Ericsson/Sonyericsson SH 668 > SH868 > SH888 > R320 >T39m > T65 >T68mc > R380 > P800 > Z600 > Z1010 > K608i
    Siemens ME45 > S55 > SL55
    Motorola 6200 > C333 > C350 > V547 > E1000 > A1000
    Nokia 7110 > 6230 > 6630 > 6230i> E60 > N80
    Panasonic G500 > GD90 > VS3
    Philips Fisio 820 > 825
    Palm Treo 650 > Treo 750V
    Samsung ZV40 > SGH-Z560
    NEC 338 > 616
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't think you get to speak for others, including the "average customer". Your anectdotal experiences are just that - anectdotal.

    Ironic the first complaint you mentioned was taken care of by Palm with an OTA update that required no "geek" knowledge.
    I get to speak about my observations no matter how you feel about them. And no, even after the many OTA updates, people continued to complain. So while some things were addressed, there were still many hardware and software issues. In fact, the software issues continue to this day. The average customer is still not buying the product.

    (here's waiting for you to pick a specific word in my post in an attempt to turn this into an argument about semantics)
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Solutor View Post
    Since opera started using the middle button to quickly open and close its tabs (and all other browsers copied that feature) also the 3rd button is almost mandatory.
    It's been mandatory since Firefox implemented this about 5 years ago.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Okay, maybe not every level, but close to it. webOS' notifications are a bit less obtrusive. I give it that.
    "A bit less obtrusive"? Either you don't understand the meaning of the word, or you're completely jaded.

    I really don't understand what it is that causes people to lose their minds when they buy an iPhone. Do you realize that competition is good for everyone, including (maybe especially) iPhone users? When you finally do get a good notification system it will be because of WebOS.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    "A bit less obtrusive"? Either you don't understand the meaning of the word, or you're completely jaded.
    I think he was being funny. I don't think anyone believes webOS' notification system, while far from perfect, does not have some significant advantages over iOS' notifications.

    Do keep in mind that webOS notifications are very obtrusive at times. I've had them squeeze my screen to an unusable size at times. Even when minimized, they take up screen real estate. They are better than what you get on iOS but they are not perfect. And's notifications are better in this regard but webOS 3.0's notifications are the closest I've seen to perfection.
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    It's been mandatory since Firefox implemented this about 5 years ago.


    Opera introduced the tabbed browsing on the early 2000, firefox copied it almost 3 years later.

    Probably every modern feature present on today's browsers are copy (often a bad copy) of an Opera's feature introduced earlier, usually one or two years.
    -------------------------------------------------

    Ericsson/Sonyericsson SH 668 > SH868 > SH888 > R320 >T39m > T65 >T68mc > R380 > P800 > Z600 > Z1010 > K608i
    Siemens ME45 > S55 > SL55
    Motorola 6200 > C333 > C350 > V547 > E1000 > A1000
    Nokia 7110 > 6230 > 6630 > 6230i> E60 > N80
    Panasonic G500 > GD90 > VS3
    Philips Fisio 820 > 825
    Palm Treo 650 > Treo 750V
    Samsung ZV40 > SGH-Z560
    NEC 338 > 616
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I get to speak about my observations no matter how you feel about them. And no, even after the many OTA updates, people continued to complain.
    I suspect you didn't directly observe enough of the Pre users to make claims about the "sverage user" from direct observation. Any user that was complaining about there baing no video camera after the OTA update that provided it was just complaining to be complaining. On THAT I don't dout you personal observation at all.



    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I think he was being funny. I don't think anyone believes webOS' notification system, while far from perfect, does not have some significant advantages over iOS' notifications.

    Do keep in mind that webOS notifications are very obtrusive at times. I've had them squeeze my screen to an unusable size at times. Even when minimized, they take up screen real estate. They are better than what you get on iOS but they are not perfect. And's notifications are better in this regard but webOS 3.0's notifications are the closest I've seen to perfection.
    Agreed. Nothing is perfect.

    But I doubt he was kidding.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    "A bit less obtrusive"? Either you don't understand the meaning of the word, or you're completely jaded.

    I really don't understand what it is that causes people to lose their minds when they buy an iPhone. Do you realize that competition is good for everyone, including (maybe especially) iPhone users? When you finally do get a good notification system it will be because of WebOS.
    Personally, I'm not a fan of webOS' notification system. I was, initially after having been on iOS for ~3 years, it was refreshing. Then, I experienced Android and how it handles them.

    Personally, I think HP should adopt how they do notifications on the tablet into future versions of their smartphone(s).

    While they are better (and yes, less obtrusive) than iOS' notifications, they compromise screen real estate, which is a big no no in my opinion, especially when you're already very limited as is.

    I think my ideal notification system would be a combination between iOS' app badge count (they little red circle with the number on the corner of an app icon to indicate how many unread notices) and webOS 3.0 (it's like Android, but a bit more appealing).
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Any user that was complaining about there baing no video camera after the OTA update that provided it was just complaining to be complaining.
    I'm trying to see where in my post I suggested that people complained about "no video camera after the OTA update that provided it". I don't see it; perhaps you can point it out to me so that I may correct it.

    On a side note, I've also seen direct complaints about the video recording that was provided after CES 2010. The capability was "offered" but it didn't work very well. I understood the complaints since I simply stopped using the feature myself due to stability issues. And the lack of options within the camera/video app at the time was...well...let's just leave it at there was a tremendous lack of options. Maybe that has changed by now and people are no longer complaining?
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Personally, I think HP should adopt how they do notifications on the tablet into future versions of their smartphone(s).
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I'm trying to see where in my post I suggested that people complained about "no video camera after the OTA update that provided it". I don't see it; perhaps you can point it out to me so that I may correct it.

    On a side note, I've also seen direct complaints about the video recording that was provided after CES 2010. The capability was "offered" but it didn't work very well. I understood the complaints since I simply stopped using the feature myself due to stability issues. And the lack of options within the camera/video app at the time was...well...let's just leave it at there was a tremendous lack of options. Maybe that has changed by now and people are no longer complaining?
    Maybe in 2.x, but my Pre - as of the latest version 1.4.5 - never could record video reliably. There was either a lag in starting up that made miss a spontaneous event, crashes during recording, or glitches here and there that made the playback annoying to watch. I gave up.
  20. #160  
    Same with me Mikah. Here is one such example: (starts around 30 seconds)


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