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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post

    Multitasking on smartphones, TODAY, is not something the average consumer cares about, much less really understands, no matter how well/elegantly it is implemented.

    Can we all at least agree on that?
    I don't agree. My wife is an "average consumer" who happens to use (and love) a Palm Pre. When she's swiping between cards to move between her calendar, answering text messages, and checking emails from work, she is multitasking.

    Does she declare that she's multitasking when she does it? Does she think about whether or not she's multitasking? Does she go on some web board and argue about whether or not she's multitasking, or whether iOS or Android are capable of running multiple processes?

    No, what she does is swipe her finger back and forth with a smile on her face talking about how easy it is. And I guarantee you that if she goes from WebOS to Android or iOS, she'll be complaining about how much more difficult it is to get around. Just like I did and I am. Just like my average user oldest son, who went from a Pixi to the Droid 2 I bought him, does. Get that; he has a Droid 2 and wants his Pixi back. For the apps? For the blazing speed?

    If nobody cared about multitasking, Apple wouldn't have hacked it on to iOS.

    It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Sorry, but hardware was not the only thing that went wrong with the Pre.
    True but I suspect that average consumers were frustrated with poor reliability or how slow it was. I doubt that the majority gave up on it because of poor software. In fact, many of us geeks put up with crappy hardware (I was on my 6th Pre) because it's got the most intuitive UI. The moment consumers saw how long it took to open a program versus its competitors, it was game over. Only hardcore Palm loyalists and new webOS fans were willing to accept the flawed hardware and make the best of it.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    I don't agree. My wife is an "average consumer" who happens to use (and love) a Palm Pre. When she's swiping between cards to move between her calendar, answering text messages, and checking emails from work, she is multitasking.

    Does she declare that she's multitasking when she does it? Does she think about whether or not she's multitasking? Does she go on some web board and argue about whether or not she's multitasking, or whether iOS or Android are capable of running multiple processes?

    No, what she does is swipe her finger back and forth with a smile on her face talking about how easy it is. And I guarantee you that if she goes from WebOS to Android or iOS, she'll be complaining about how much more difficult it is to get around. Just like I did and I am. Just like my average user oldest son, who went from a Pixi to the Droid 2 I bought him, does. Get that; he has a Droid 2 and wants his Pixi back. For the apps? For the blazing speed?

    If nobody cared about multitasking, Apple wouldn't have hacked it on to iOS.
    And the rebuttal to that is:

    Back when I owned a Pre (last summer) I tried selling both my sister and my mom (who both owned iPhone's) on webOS. I showed them how cards worked (that was really the only firepower I had as I didn't have an arsenal of apps or anything else like their devices did for comparison).

    Their response?

    I don't get or need that. I can do the same thing by just pressing a button. Also, where are all the apps and games?

    I had nothing else to show or any points to prove. They were right.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    And the rebuttal to that is:

    Back when I owned a Pre (last summer) I tried selling both my sister and my mom (who both owned iPhone's) on webOS. I showed them how cards worked (that was really the only firepower I had as I didn't have an arsenal of apps or anything else like their devices did for comparison).

    Their response?

    I don't get or need that. I can do the same thing by just pressing a button. Also, where are all the apps and games?

    I had nothing else to show or any points to prove. They were right.
    Do your mom and sister also not "get" Microsoft Windows or OSX? They're really confusing like that too.

    "Power windows on my car? I don't need those!"

    Is good multitasking a feature that will cause people who love and are accustomed to their current device, or care more apps and games and retina displays and ecosystems to give up their device? Is the average person going to move to WebOS on multitasking alone? No, they're not. The reasons a person selects a particular piece of electronics over another are many.

    But none of that means that WebOS isn't better at multitasking, and if you've determined that it's not that important to you, or you're content with the (lame) way that iOS has implemented it given the total package, enjoy. It doesn't appear that you are.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Do your mom and sister also not "get" Microsoft Windows or OSX? They're really confusing like that too.

    "Power windows on my car? I don't need those!"

    Is good multitasking a feature that will cause people who love and are accustomed to their current device, or care more apps and games and retina displays and ecosystems to give up their device? Is the average person going to move to WebOS on multitasking alone? No, they're not. The reasons a person selects a particular piece of electronics over another are many.

    But none of that means that WebOS isn't better at multitasking, and if you've determined that it's not that important to you, or you're content with the (lame) way that iOS has implemented it given the total package, enjoy. It doesn't appear that you are.
    Honestly? No, they don't as they're constantly calling me with issues and questions; like most (average) people with their computers.

    Cards are cool, but not needed. iOS and any other modern OS allows one to multitask just fine.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Honestly? No, they don't as they're constantly calling me with issues and questions; like most (average) people with their computers.

    Cards are cool, but not needed. iOS and any other modern OS allows one to multitask just fine.
    Calling with computer questions and not understanding the concept of windows are two different things entirely.

    Retina display is cool, but not needed.

    200,000 apps is cool, but not needed.

    A smartphone...

    A cell phone...

    Indoor plumbing...

    iOS multitasking is not cool and it sux.
  7. #127  
    What do you find lacking about iOS' multitasking? Specifically, I mean.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Calling with computer questions and not understanding the concept of windows are two different things entirely.
    But you just made the comparison above..

    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Retina display is cool, but not needed.
    True. But after you've seen and used one, it's very difficult to go back to anything else. Trust me. It reminds me of those that were dead against HDTV but after having actually experienced it and seen the comparisons there's no way they could go back to standard definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    200,000 apps is cool, but not needed.
    Needed? No. But anyone that has spent a good amount of time with an iPhone or iPod will understand why it's so popular/successful. Hint: it's the apps.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    iOS multitasking is not cool and it sux.
    Let us know how you really feel!
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Do your mom and sister also not "get" Microsoft Windows or OSX? They're really confusing like that too.

    "Power windows on my car? I don't need those!"

    Is good multitasking a feature that will cause people who love and are accustomed to their current device, or care more apps and games and retina displays and ecosystems to give up their device? Is the average person going to move to WebOS on multitasking alone? No, they're not. The reasons a person selects a particular piece of electronics over another are many.

    But none of that means that WebOS isn't better at multitasking, and if you've determined that it's not that important to you, or you're content with the (lame) way that iOS has implemented it given the total package, enjoy. It doesn't appear that you are.
    GMoney;

    I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying here, or, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

    Everyone would appreciate the ability to "multitask" - geek or novice - that isn't the point. It's GREAT to be able to do that, and I believe most here would agree - additionally, WebOS's implementation is, the best. I think most here would agree with that, too.

    The issue here is that it is NOT understood or valued as a required feature by most users today - they hear the DROID commercials talking about "multitasking" and they say wow, I have to get that, and deal with that implementation, because they don't know any better, nor do they need to. It works at thier current needs.

    Same for iOS multitasking - it certainly isn't an elegant implementaton, but, it works for their users, and thats what counts.

    Your wife is not typical - I know she likely fits the demographic, but, not functionally - she is using her phone to its maximum capacity - that's hardly normal - she's a power-user by today's standards.

    The fact that she has no idea what "multitasking" as a word or concept is, has nothing to do with her use of the phone... she's ahead of her time, trust me (and be proud!).

    It's just not a feature one can brag about that will make a huge difference in demand today... but, I do believe, sincerely, that will change, as I have posted before in this thread, in the next few years, and when that happens, if the other multitasking implementations fall asleep at the wheel and don't enhance their processes and GUI's, then WebOS, even in its current state, will be way ahead of them in this area, when multitasking, just like on a desktop PC, is something that everyone thinks IS vitally important in any mobile device and the platform it runs on.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Sorry, but hardware was not the only thing that went wrong with the Pre.
    That is my strong belief too. And I don't like direction it is going too (as smartphone OS).
    But, it looks perfect for tablet.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    GMoney;

    I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying here, or, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

    Everyone would appreciate the ability to "multitask" - geek or novice - that isn't the point. It's GREAT to be able to do that, and I believe most here would agree - additionally, WebOS's implementation is, the best. I think most here would agree with that, too.

    The issue here is that it is NOT understood or valued as a required feature by most users today - they hear the DROID commercials talking about "multitasking" and they say wow, I have to get that, and deal with that implementation, because they don't know any better, nor do they need to. It works at thier current needs.

    Same for iOS multitasking - it certainly isn't an elegant implementaton, but, it works for their users, and thats what counts.

    Your wife is not typical - I know she likely fits the demographic, but, not functionally - she is using her phone to its maximum capacity - that's hardly normal - she's a power-user by today's standards.

    The fact that she has no idea what "multitasking" as a word or concept is, has nothing to do with her use of the phone... she's ahead of her time, trust me (and be proud!).

    It's just not a feature one can brag about that will make a huge difference in demand today... but, I do believe, sincerely, that will change, as I have posted before in this thread, in the next few years, and when that happens, if the other multitasking implementations fall asleep at the wheel and don't enhance their processes and GUI's, then WebOS, even in its current state, will be way ahead of them in this area, when multitasking, just like on a desktop PC, is something that everyone thinks IS vitally important in any mobile device and the platform it runs on.

    Other than my wife being a power user, I agree with every bit of that. Frankly I was surprised that Apple's multitasking implementation was such a weak effort (IMO) and said as much at the time. I expected more from a company that places so much emphasis on form and expected WebOS to lose this advantage way back then. I guess we'll see on Wednesday if it changes.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    What do you find lacking about iOS' multitasking? Specifically, I mean.
    It's just clunky in function in comparison to WebOS. Once you're in an app, it's terrific, but moving between them is inelegant. This is the same company that designed the cool interface for the original iPod. And since it's icon-based rather than windows-based I can't see the app itself or the state of the app. So if, for example, I'm going to Engadget and it takes a while to load over 3G, I can't quickly swipe back and forth between some other app rather than sitting there waiting for it to finish.

    Plus the notification system is really bad. Fine for a Moto Razr, but not for a market leader IMO.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by empathyrus View Post
    True but I suspect that average consumers were frustrated with poor reliability or how slow it was. I doubt that the majority gave up on it because of poor software. In fact, many of us geeks put up with crappy hardware (I was on my 6th Pre) because it's got the most intuitive UI. The moment consumers saw how long it took to open a program versus its competitors, it was game over. Only hardcore Palm loyalists and new webOS fans were willing to accept the flawed hardware and make the best of it.
    The average consumer was frustrated with both hardware and software. Us geeks put up with it because of Preware. I know people personally that returned the Pre before anything was broken on the device itself. They retuned it because there was no video recording or not enough camera functions, or too many cards (even when they had only 1 card open), not enough apps, missing basic functionality, too slow, too unstable, etc. People try to make it out to be just a hardware issue but even after the hardware was improved and plussed, things were still going horribly wrong. Hardware was not the only issue frustrating consumers. webOS itself also frustrated them.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    I don't agree. My wife is an "average consumer" who happens to use (and love) a Palm Pre. When she's swiping between cards to move between her calendar, answering text messages, and checking emails from work, she is multitasking.
    Considering you described your wife's "task switching" in your example as "multitasking," it sounds like you're an "average consumer" yourself. Until she's actually reliant on multiple apps running (not sitting) in the background just to accomplish routine activities, she's still just a task switcher. But all-in-all it doesn't matter if it works for her which has been my point all along in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    So, they add a new feature, and nobody knows about it, and those that do know don't use it, and that's the "beauty of apple"? Not because it's a poor implementation...
    I have demonstrated the Pre gesture area to at least 8 friends/colleagues/acquaintances. Each of them had used the phone for months and none of them knew it existed (or the range of functions it had). Talk about a hidden feature.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Considering you described your wife's "task switching" in your example as "multitasking," it sounds like you're an "average consumer" yourself. Until she's actually reliant on multiple apps running (not sitting) in the background just to accomplish routine activities, she's still just a task switcher. But all-in-all it doesn't matter if it works for her which has been my point all along in this thread.
    Awesome. Since I'm not sporting your level of ego, I'll gladly accept and represent "average consumer", and this average consumer does care about multitasking, doesn't give a hoot about those nuances and prefers the way that WebOS performs task switching, multitasking and notifications over Android and iOS.
    Last edited by GMoney749; 02/28/2011 at 07:44 PM.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    The average consumer was frustrated with both hardware and software. Us geeks put up with it because of Preware. I know people personally that returned the Pre before anything was broken on the device itself. They retuned it because there was no video recording or not enough camera functions, or too many cards (even when they had only 1 card open), not enough apps, missing basic functionality, too slow, too unstable, etc. People try to make it out to be just a hardware issue but even after the hardware was improved and plussed, things were still going horribly wrong. Hardware was not the only issue frustrating consumers. webOS itself also frustrated them.
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    The average consumer was frustrated with both hardware and software. Us geeks put up with it because of Preware. I know people personally that returned the Pre before anything was broken on the device itself. They retuned it because there was no video recording or not enough camera functions, or too many cards (even when they had only 1 card open), not enough apps, missing basic functionality, too slow, too unstable, etc. People try to make it out to be just a hardware issue but even after the hardware was improved and plussed, things were still going horribly wrong. Hardware was not the only issue frustrating consumers. webOS itself also frustrated them.
    I don't think you get to speak for others, including the "average customer". Your anectdotal experiences are just that - anectdotal.

    Ironic the first complaint you mentioned was taken care of by Palm with an OTA update that required no "geek" knowledge.
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by empathyrus View Post
    True but I suspect that average consumers were frustrated with poor reliability or how slow it was. I doubt that the majority gave up on it because of poor software. In fact, many of us geeks put up with crappy hardware (I was on my 6th Pre) because it's got the most intuitive UI. The moment consumers saw how long it took to open a program versus its competitors, it was game over. Only hardcore Palm loyalists and new webOS fans were willing to accept the flawed hardware and make the best of it.
    just a comment.

    you call it intuitive but honestly, on launch day, i used webos and it wasn't instantly intuitive. someone had to explain to us how the gestures work and how to get to the previous page. That swiping up closes. like we kept having fully open apps (not minimized) and tried to swipe up to close. He had to come back to show us how to minimize then swipe up. But it's hardly obvious to someone who has never seen it before. Another thing. I'm used to having a hold button. But the button on a pre doesn't do that, especially now since mine is broke and i've actually forgotten all that it does other then turn the phone off. But i kept trying to kill the touch screen by sliding the button on the pre over. But it doesn't do that it just cuts the ringer off. But i totally remember being frustrated cause there was no back button or home button and i can imagine many people thinking similar things.

    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    The average consumer was frustrated with both hardware and software. Us geeks put up with it because of Preware. I know people personally that returned the Pre before anything was broken on the device itself. They retuned it because there was no video recording or not enough camera functions, or too many cards (even when they had only 1 card open), not enough apps, missing basic functionality, too slow, too unstable, etc. People try to make it out to be just a hardware issue but even after the hardware was improved and plussed, things were still going horribly wrong. Hardware was not the only issue frustrating consumers. webOS itself also frustrated them.
    i think the average customer walked into a store and saw a pre next to an EVO, Incredible, Torch, and iPhone and decided it was a better phone well before anything broke.

    but i had a friend that had a pre, liked it at first, got frustrated with the short comings, lost it, bought a pixi. eventually got frustrated with it too. Now he has an iphone (free) a droid phone. Loves Android. Can't mention webos without dropping an F bomb. Neither of his palm phones had actually broke. He just found the software shortcomings and lack of apps amazing frustrating to the point of hating Palm phones with every fiber in his being.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 03/01/2011 at 12:48 AM.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    And the rebuttal to that is:

    Back when I owned a Pre (last summer) I tried selling both my sister and my mom (who both owned iPhone's) on webOS. I showed them how cards worked (that was really the only firepower I had as I didn't have an arsenal of apps or anything else like their devices did for comparison).

    Their response?

    I don't get or need that. I can do the same thing by just pressing a button. Also, where are all the apps and games?

    I had nothing else to show or any points to prove. They were right.
    I suspect you weren't trying very hard. The button would have worked, the device just did more.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    ...Cards are cool, but not needed. iOS and any other modern OS allows one to multitask just fine.
    Good to see that you've finally acknowledged something is cool that Apple just doesn't have yet. However, the rest of the statement is simply false. iOS's implementation of multitasking is hardly "just fine". It's extremely limited.
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