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  1. #101  
    @LCGuy You are missing the point. It's not that a gold standard can't be obtained. The issue is that you are using the wrong metric to begin with. It's like trying to compare automobile and airplane fuel economy and saying one should serve as the gold standard for the other. Though they are both used for travel, they are very different beasts.
  2. #102  
    Taharka;

    With all due respect, YOU are missing the point.

    No one is comparing, however, if one was to have a goal to obtain, it would be to multitask on a smartphone as you would on a PC - and in that regard, WebOS is the closest, and my prognostication is that in the future, that MAY prove to HP's benefit, but certainly, not now.. not yet.

    And, to reiterate...

    That isnt something that current smartphone users feel is so important.. yet!!!

    You say they are different, and I agree, but, they are on a collision course for merging in the near future, and then, I am sure things will change, drastically, and in that regard, WebOS is well ahead of their competition, currently.

    So, to sum it all up:

    Is WebOS the best multitasking implementation of a mobile OS out there today?

    Yep.

    Does the majority of the consuming public really care about that?

    Nope.. not yet (and perhaps not for a few years to come, as well).
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  3. #103  
    /sigh...
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    There will be one factor that will never allow smart phones cross into the desktop territory: size. Who really wants to do the things you do on your desktop on a device that's visually >= 20" smaller?

    At least, that's my opinion.
    You mean like, send and receive email, check and edit your calendar, view and edit presentations and Word documents and surf the web? Yeah, who's EVER gonna want to do that desktop-type of stuff on their smartphone??

    Ridiculous argument is ridiculous.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    multi-tasking WILL become something of a much higher importance to users,
    i want your crystal ball. who's gonna win next year's superbowl. I want to bet on it.

    i got a prediction. sooner all phones will as pre people say 'true multitask" and several phone makers will have something that looks similar to cards. Then the forums will shift into more they stole it from us threads. regardless right now most phones multitask good enough for consumers and multitasking doesn't matter. Time to focus on stuff that does sell phones and grows users. It's just an argument that isn't getting webos anywhere.

    ok you're the best multitasker. Everyone else isn't as good. They are all gonna copy cards. Now what?
  6. #106  
    you know what would be perfect mobile multitasking? An Android-WebOS Mixture. Widgets+ Cards+ APIs+ Apps ;'0

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    i want your crystal ball. who's gonna win next year's superbowl. I want to bet on it.

    i got a prediction. sooner all phones will as pre people say 'true multitask" and several phone makers will have something that looks similar to cards. Then the forums will shift into more they stole it from us threads. regardless right now most phones multitask good enough for consumers and multitasking doesn't matter. Time to focus on stuff that does sell phones and grows users. It's just an argument that isn't getting webos anywhere.

    ok you're the best multitasker. Everyone else isn't as good. They are all gonna copy cards. Now what?
    First, its no crystal ball - just a speculation based on theory and experience, but, I'm pretty certain I will be proven correct about this.

    Second, copying cards would be a smart move, but, they will have to implement real state saving and multiprocessing - that isnt just a GUI capability - that's an extensive hard core programming change which will need to deal with CPU utilization time for heat control and battery consumption..

    I'd venture to say that it won't be a n easy adjustment for OS's that have established themselves in different directions - advantage to WebOS at that time, because of the early lead and what I beileve will be huge steps in programming efficiencies taken over the many releases of devices and newer versions of WebOS up to that time.

    Having said that, once again, today, it's just no biggie to the average consumer.

    My opinion is that in a few years, it will be, though. Its the natural order of things I have seen and witnessed over many years, despite those who provided what they thought were practical reasons as to why my not even practially possible.

    I remember years ago when I spoke about the cell phone becoming, within the next 5 - 10 years, (I was right on the edge there) a true mini compuer with computing power comparable to then current low/mid end desktop PC's, citing Moore's Law as one of the theories for that projection. From the detractors came the following responses, among MANY others, claiming to be fact at the time (10 years ago):

    -Battery power - huge porcessing power requires power. 10 minue battery life for such devices, with current battery technology, given the requirement for small battery size.
    -Screen size/type - to make it useable, would require additional CPU power and battery size, see above
    -Device size - even if optim,ized, will need a battery and screen that would be way too big to carry around everywhere, especially women or those of small stature.



    My, what a difference 10 years makes!

    Last edited by LCGuy; 02/27/2011 at 06:46 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Having said that, once again, today, it's just no biggie to the average consumer.

    My opinion is that in a few years, it will be, though. Its the natural order of things I have seen and witnessed over many years, despite those who provided what they thought were practical reasons as to why my not even practially possible.
    Whether or not a device multitasks will never matter to the average consumer - it's only important to a bunch of nerds in a smartphone forum. What's important to consumers is how a device works for them, does what they want, performs for them, without causing them undue complication or confusion.

    Example: Is the computer that controls your car's engine (aka ECU) multitasking capable? Does the average consumer know, or care, or even have a clue that their car's engine uses a computer with an operating system?

    Claiming multitasking on a phone as a defining feature would be like claiming multitasking in a car's engine computer is a defining feature for that car. It's simply a means to an end - but it's only the end matters to the consumer.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Whether or not a device multitasks will never matter to the average consumer - it's only important to a bunch of nerds in a smartphone forum. What's important to consumers is how a device works for them, does what they want, performs for them, without causing them undue complication or confusion.

    Example: Is the computer that controls your car's engine (aka ECU) multitasking capable? Does the average consumer know, or care, or even have a clue that their car's engine uses a computer with an operating system?

    Claiming multitasking on a phone as a defining feature would be like claiming multitasking in a car's engine computer is a defining feature for that car. It's simply a means to an end - but it's only the end matters to the consumer.
    That's because, as always, there is confusion here, about what that "defining feature" is; every time WebOS multitasking comes up, all of those nerds who want to defend iOS' or Android's lame way of doing it start talking about multi-processing. Hell, my coffee machine runs multiple processes, so that's obviousiy not what we're talking about here. When the iPhone "got multitasking", it wasn't the ability to run more than one process, since it already did that. It was a change to the interface to allow the user to see and switch between open applications without going back to the home screen and searching for them on the grid of icons. I guarantee you that, prior to the change, the "average consumer" didn't know they were already back there running, but they certainly appreciate that it's now easier to get to them.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    That's because, as always, there is confusion here, about what that "defining feature" is; every time WebOS multitasking comes up, all of those nerds who want to defend iOS' or Android's lame way of doing it start talking about multi-processing. Hell, my coffee machine runs multiple processes, so that's obviousiy not what we're talking about here. When the iPhone "got multitasking", it wasn't the ability to run more than one process, since it already did that. It was a change to the interface to allow the user to see and switch between open applications without going back to the home screen and searching for them on the grid of icons. I guarantee you that, prior to the change, the "average consumer" didn't know they were already back there running, but they certainly appreciate that it's now easier to get to them.
    What's funny, after multitasking was introduced to iOS and by way of "fast switching" a large chunk of users a) know nothing about it or b) just don't use it.

    They continue to use their device as they always have with a few benefits they didn't have before, and probably don't realize. That's the beauty of Apple.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    What's funny, after multitasking was introduced to iOS and by way of "fast switching" a large chunk of users a) know nothing about it or b) just don't use it.

    They continue to use their device as they always have with a few benefits they didn't have before, and probably don't realize. That's the beauty of Apple.
    So, they add a new feature, and nobody knows about it, and those that do know don't use it, and that's the "beauty of apple"? Not because it's a poor implementation...

    No, the "beauty" is getting people to shove their heads so far up your tooter that they think that makes the least bit of sense.

    Ridiculous argument is ridiculous.
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    So, they add a new feature, and nobody knows about it, and those that do know don't use it, and that's the "beauty of apple"? Not because it's a poor implementation...

    No, the "beauty" is getting people to shove their heads so far up your tooter that they think that makes the least bit of sense.
    There will always be that group that just "doesn't get it".

    It broadens the capabilities for all users whether they realize it or not. It enriches the experience without having to change anything.

    For those power users that want to use the new features (fast switching), it's there and they can use it as they see fit. For others, if they use it or they don't, it doesn't matter. It's an effortless and thoughtless process.

    Despite how one uses their iPhone, the experience is the same across the board. That's the beauty.

    And to quote Steve Jobs:
    It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.
    Last edited by barkerja; 02/27/2011 at 05:13 PM.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    So, they add a new feature, and nobody knows about it, and those that do know don't use it, and that's the "beauty of apple"? Not because it's a poor implementation...
    After re-reading, I noticed you misunderstood what I said. You have this: those that don't know about or understand it, those that just don't care, those that do use it.

    Despite which category you fall under listed above, your experience on an iOS device is the same (battery, performance, etc.).

    Unlike other mobile OS' where you have to be a bit more conscious of things. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, or a wrong thing, but it does affect how one perceives their experience, especially those that are less understanding.

    For example: if one has multiple cards open on webOS and their phone has significantly slowed down, who or what do you think is going to get the blame by a less-knowledgable consumer? The same goes with battery.

    While iOS may strip you of some features, it entitles you to a lot more than others.

    There are compromises that need to be made. Compromises that may not fit the need or desire of many but it apparently works out best for most.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Oh, well if Jobs says it's so....

    Ridiculous argument is ridiculous.
    Sorry but what is ridiculous is fighting for a tech thing like for the beloved football club.

    99% of the users buys technology to use it, and they couldn't care less about what's under the hud, they look if something can fit their needs.

    ATM webos doesn't fits any needs because the lack of sw. Period.

    No matter on how well it's able to switch from a program to another.

    This maibe will change (but probably not) in the future, so when and if this will happen, arguing about the mutitasking capabilities will be a more productive debate.
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  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    After re-reading, I noticed you misunderstood what I said. You have this: those that don't know about or understand it, those that just don't care, those that do use it.

    Despite which category you fall under listed above, your experience on an iOS device is the same (battery, performance, etc.).

    Unlike other mobile OS' where you have to be a bit more conscious of things.
    Ummm, yeah...so, you need to be an advanced user to understand multitasking in iOS?

    Unlike WebOS, iOS multitasking is a hacked-on afterthought requiring extra steps to use rather than an integral part of the OS. All three of your "categories" get the exact same seamless multitasking experience.
  16. #116  
    I stand by my prognositcations above - we will see in time if Im right or wrong.

    I find it funny that people clearly state their opinions of what they think will happen in the future as a fact (Kupe, Im referring to you).

    Bottom line:

    Multitasking on smartphones, TODAY, is not something the average consumer cares about, much less really understands, no matter how well/elegantly it is implemented.

    Can we all at least agree on that?
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    I stand by my prognositcations above - we will see in time if Im right or wrong.

    I find it funny that people clearly state their opinions of what they think will happen in the future as a fact (Kupe, Im referring to you).

    Bottom line:

    Multitasking on smartphones, TODAY, is not something the average consumer cares about, much less really understands, no matter how well/elegantly it is implemented.

    Can we all at least agree on that?
    That was the point I was trying to make above.

    However, I think the future will be augmented, so this will be a moot point in 50 - 100 years! We'll be connected, telepathically; we'll communicate with one another through the embedded chips we had put into our brains at birth.

    That's my prediction for the future.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Ummm, yeah...so, you need to be an advanced user to understand multitasking in iOS?

    Unlike WebOS, iOS multitasking is a hacked-on afterthought requiring extra steps to use rather than an integral part of the OS. All three of your "categories" get the exact same seamless multitasking experience.
    I didn't say that, at all. You're just assuming that. And I didn't say the experience was multitasking related rather the experience perceived in whole from using the device.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    I stand by my prognositcations above - we will see in time if Im right or wrong.

    I find it funny that people clearly state their opinions of what they think will happen in the future as a fact (Kupe, Im referring to you).

    Bottom line:

    Multitasking on smartphones, TODAY, is not something the average consumer cares about, much less really understands, no matter how well/elegantly it is implemented.

    Can we all at least agree on that?
    Completely agree with you. Multitasking is not that important to consumers yet. Case in point is the original Pre. It had superb multitasking but didn't do well in the market because consumers wanted a fast and robust phone. If the original Pre had better HARDWARE (like a Droid or Evo) then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
  20. #120  
    Sorry, but hardware was not the only thing that went wrong with the Pre.

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