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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4 View Post
    You missed the point of my post entirely. Last time they announced and then didn't ship for several months. Last time they announced before the operating system was ready to release and due to pressure ended up releasing more quickly than they should have.

    It's like deja vu all over again...
    That is true, but it sold poorly for more reasons than thode, many of which have been fixed.

    The OS is more mature, though by a long shot.

    No flash... Fixed.
    No voice dial... Fixed.
    Small screen.... Fixed.... HD Camera, hardware, etc...

    This time, albeit after the same ridiculous delay, atleast people should like the phone.

    Biggest hole is in apps, but it's come a LONG way. And it seems like HP is going to try to make up that ground itself.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think it's already been tried in the PC business in the past - it's called pre-installed crapware. What else would you call pre-installing something that 95% of your users aren't interested in? What features does this new software have for the average PC user that will interest them?
    Sarcasm/
    Yes. Pre-installed software does not work. The iLife applications are unusable and never get used. IE never gets used (actually, some DON'T use that) and Safari./Sarcasm

    Thats just some of the app's that actually do get used. Not even touching burning software or game software or media players.


    But WebOS is different then all of those. WebOS it seems to me will be a dual boot OS. I think it would be better as an application on top of Windows -- more people would use it.
    Last edited by astraith; 02/12/2011 at 07:30 AM.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think it's already been tried in the PC business in the past - it's called pre-installed crapware. What else would you call pre-installing something that 95% of your users aren't interested in? What features does this new software have for the average PC user that will interest them?
    Do the math - if 95% aren't interested in using WebOS and 5% are, we will have a big win. HP keeps talking scale and the largest installed base of connected users. They may be right.
  4. #24  
    HP is fighting the war with 1 gun blazing...

    3 portrait sliders aint gonna cut it...HP needs to be in all smartphone and mobile device form factors to win:

    4" slab
    landscape slider
    portrait slider
    candybar
    large tablet
    mini tablet

    The U.S. Military has an Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, and CIA for a reason...you cant win every battle with tanks only...
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Yes. Pre-installed software does not work. The iLife applications are unusable and never get used. IE never gets used (actually, some DON'T use that) and Safari. Thats just some of the app's that actually do get used. Not even touching burning software or game software or media players.

    But WebOS is different then all of those. WebOS it seems to me will be a dual boot OS. I think it would be better as an application on top of Windows -- more people would use it.

    where are you gathering your facts?? ILife isn't used??? IE isn't used, yet has the largest marketshare of browsers??
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by dj ozone View Post
    HP is fighting the war with 1 gun blazing...

    3 portrait sliders aint gonna cut it...HP needs to be in all smartphone and mobile device form factors to win:

    4" slab
    landscape slider
    portrait slider
    candybar
    large tablet
    mini tablet

    The U.S. Military has an Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, and CIA for a reason...you cant win every battle with tanks only...
    Exactly my point... People only seem to understand Androids plan, but yet..... doesn't apple have only 1 gun?!!! And yet they are winning.

    I keep hearing that argument but the prime example escapes people.

    again, HP is obviously playing catchup, but evaluate it's plan on logic, not compared to others. It has merit to me, but people don't seem to be evaluating it without comparing it.
    Last edited by Spitfire11; 02/12/2011 at 08:00 AM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by pavvento View Post
    where are you gathering your facts?? ILife isn't used??? IE isn't used, yet has the largest marketshare of browsers??
    Ha, I am sorry, I didn't make it clear I was being sarcastic? Yes, they are being used.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Ha, I am sorry, I didn't make it clear I was being sarcastic? Yes, they are being used.
    Sorry! Usually i can tell, but last night I was clearly off.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by pavvento View Post
    Sorry! Usually i can tell, but last night I was clearly off.
    No problamo dude!
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You're ignoring one of the obvious successes of "pre-installed" software - Internet Explorer.
    I really don't think installing third party software is comparable with something as integrated as a web browser, in the case of ie, or the lengths that Microsoft went through in order to cripple the competition. Anti-trust suits ring a bell? A better comparison would be to see the stats from Windows 7 users that had a choice of browsers through that browser switcher option (or was that option only available to EU users?).

    I am more likely to download it and give it a try than I am to use something bundled with a PC although I whole heartedly hold my hand up and state this is my opinion alone and most likely does not reflect most of the pc buying public.

    As stated on a previous thread, and sorry if this drags this thread off topic, I would be interested in seeing webOS sitting on top of an installable live distro that I could run on my eee-pc. This would open up the option for older systems, and netbooks, to gain a new lease of life and also potentially open up a new avenue of consumers for the app catalogue.
  11. #31  
    Jon Rubinstein 2/9/11 Interview with Engadget

    Jon Rubinstein has stated before and reiterates in this interview that he does not try competing products which may explain why he said this:

    Jon: First of all, webOS is a better experience -- true multitasking, Synergy, Just Type, OTA updates, the list goes on and on. It's a fundamentally better experience. The whole vision of connected devices... this is just the beginning. Connected devices, web connectivity, delivering unified HP webOS experiences across a variety of devices.
    Multitasking: webOS, Android, BlackBerry, and iOS 4.3 all time-slice to give you the feeling that they are doing multiple things at once.

    Synergy: Synergy 2.1 will have most of the features from Android 2.0.

    Just Type: webOS 2.1 will have most of the Voice Actions options except the voice part.

    OTA updates: That is just a strange advantage to claim as it is so common in all platforms.

    Connected devices: Google Print prints maps, docs, xls, etc. from your phone to your home or office printer. Apps like Bump let you share with a touch. NFC (Near Field Communications) is the next step.

    At least Rubinstein did not claim to have invented the Internet.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 02/13/2011 at 06:23 PM.
  12. #32  
    No, but he does claim to have "home court advantage" - whatever that means.

    When he touts the "better experience" of webOS, I start to believe him when he says he's never used any other platforms.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Jon Rubinstein 2/9/11 Interview with Engadget

    Jon Rubinstein has stated before and reiterates in this interview that he does not try competing products. The problem with that is that you end up making statements like this:



    Multitasking: webOS is not the only OS that truly multitasks. What all of them do is time-slice giving you the feeling that it is doing multiple things at once.

    Synergy: Synergy 2.0 will have most of the features from Android 2.0 from May 2010.

    Just Type: webOS 2.0 have most of the Voice Actions options except the voice part.

    OTA updates: That is just a strange advantage to claim as it is so common in all platforms.

    Connected devices: Google Print already lets you print maps, docs, xls, etc. from your phone to your home or office printer. Apps like Bump already let you share with a touch. NFC (Near Field Communications) in Gingerbread opens a whole new world.

    At least Rubinstein did not claim to have invented the Internet.
    Its called sales/marketing, what do we expect him to do, talk about how great his competition is and how they do everything better.

    If intrested in webOS, the avg consumer will probably hear what he says without knowing or even thinking about the things you are saying above (which may all be true, but who cares), so this is why HP will have a STRONG marketing campaign (I hope).

    We should at least allow HP to try to execute its plan, heck I dont recall RIM ever mentioning the Pre or webOS with the torch/Playbook, or Google mentioning things they may use with honeycomb.
    Last edited by RoverNole; 02/13/2011 at 07:20 PM.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Jon Rubinstein 2/9/11 Interview with Engadget

    Jon Rubinstein has stated before and reiterates in this interview that he does not try competing products which may explain why he said this:



    Multitasking: webOS, Android, BlackBerry, and iOS 4.3 all time-slice to give you the feeling that they are doing multiple things at once.

    Synergy: Synergy 2.0 will have most of the features from Android 2.0 from May 2010.

    Just Type: webOS 2.1 will have most of the Voice Actions options except the voice part.

    OTA updates: That is just a strange advantage to claim as it is so common in all platforms.

    Connected devices: Google Print prints maps, docs, xls, etc. from your phone to your home or office printer. Apps like Bump let you share with a touch. NFC (Near Field Communications) is the next step.

    At least Rubinstein did not claim to have invented the Internet.
    I guess him not trying other products makes sense as the tablet's Mail app looks an awful like the iPad version, except of course the number row. I guess he had know idea his development team copied the look. LOL
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Its called sales/marketing, what do we expect him to do, talk about how great his competition is and how they do everything better.
    Rubinstein should focus on the unique features of his products and why a consumer might find them useful or better than the competition, not reiterate 2-year-old blather that was arguable in 2009 and is laughably wrong in 2011.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by pavvento View Post
    where are you gathering your facts?? ILife isn't used??? IE isn't used, yet has the largest marketshare of browsers??
    You didn't notice the sarcasm tags?
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preman_ie View Post
    I really don't think installing third party software is comparable with something as integrated as a web browser, in the case of ie, or the lengths that Microsoft went through in order to cripple the competition. Anti-trust suits ring a bell? A better comparison would be to see the stats from Windows 7 users that had a choice of browsers through that browser switcher option (or was that option only available to EU users?).
    .
    No, I'm well aware of the lengths Windows went to; however, IE was pre-installed before it became "integrated" into the OS. It was successful. Not as successful as Microsoft wanted. They didn't want 40-50% of the browser market (on which they made no money), they wanted to completely kill all other Windows browsers, thus forcing folks to use their technology, and their technology only, going forward. It took integrating it into the OS to (almost) acheive that.

    However, simply including it as one of the applicationss, before it became part of the OS, worked quite well.

    There are other examples, but it's hard to nail them all down, since it varies from (get this now) computer manufacturer to computer manufacturer.

    Some include Google as a search engine - others include Yahoo. Back in the day, some even included AOL. All of these were done with a substantial subsidy to the manufacturer (which is why so many computer shops "back in day" couldn't keep competing by building computers from components, we couldn't put the OS on them for pennies on the dollar like the big boys).
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