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  1. #261  
    Ummm... sells, maybe..,

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  2. #262  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    I just have to say the iPhone sales to iPhone users while Android users is picking up left overs from Blackberry users. iPhone -- while it does make money -- does not always sale to NEW iPhone users. And YES IT DOES sale to new users just not at a fast enough rate to increase market share. Going to Verizon probably has helped that, however, since the people who did buy the iPhone were mostly Verizon customers (according to the data given by HPA). But eventually that will happen again (where the iPhone decreases market growth). This happens to everyone in every market.
    There is an important difference, unlike cheaper handsets, iPhones are nearly always handed down. they stay in circulation (generally going to a non-iPhone user).

    I financed my last purchase by selling my old one on eBay, and it sold for $50 more than my new 4G (on contract) and it was just a 3G. Many people pass their old one on to family members -- unless it's broken ( and even then!) it just doesn't go to the junk drawer.
  3. #263  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    There is an important difference, unlike cheaper handsets, iPhones are nearly always handed down. they stay in circulation (generally going to a non-iPhone user).

    I financed my last purchase by selling my old one on eBay, and it sold for $50 more than my new 4G (on contract) and it was just a 3G. Many people pass their old one on to family members -- unless it's broken ( and even then!) it just doesn't go to the junk drawer.
    . That is true but that's doesn't nec increase marketshare. Unless I am wrong which is possible
  4. #264  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    . That is true but that's doesn't nec increase marketshare. Unless I am wrong which is possible
    Sure it does. HP Webos fan buying a new phone because their old one crapped out doesn't increase marketshare (if by marketshare you mean the share of users).

    But an Apple user buying a new phone and recycling a their old phone to a new user does.
  5. #265  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Apple has not "held its own" in marketshare. It's slipped. It not only slipped in Europe, but here as well.
    So you are not even going to acknowledge this?

    Here is a snippet:

    Europe as a whole clearly favours iOS – its market share has run between 50 per cent and 45 per cent between January 2010 and January 2011 – which is well ahead of nearest rivals Symbian, BlackBerry and Android.
  6. #266  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    So you are not even going to acknowledge this?

    Here is a snippet:
    I think it is you that is not acknowledging it. It is not my contention that Android is leading any market over IOS. I don't know if it is or not. The issue that I keep trying to make the aPhans here understand is that the statement that no other phone has "put a dent" in iPhone's market share is false.

    Some of you guys just don't seem to get it, even when you offer evidence yourself.

    How much of the market share will Android need to capture before you call it a "dent"?
  7. #267  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    So you are not even going to acknowledge this?

    Here is a snippet:
    I think it is you that is not acknowledging it. It is not my contention that Android is leading any market over IOS. I don't know if it is or not. The issue that I keep trying to make the aPhans here understand is that the statement that no other phone has "put a dent" in iPhone's market share is false.

    Some of you guys just don't seem to get it, even when you offer evidence yourself.

    How much of the market share will Android need to capture before you call it a "dent"?
  8. #268  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    How much of the market share will Android need to capture before you call it a "dent"?
    Without context, this is all meaningless babble. In another thread, I stated that nothing is making much of a dent in iOS PROFIT share, not market share. I posted an article to that affect. You came off as if you didn't know what I meant and I showed you in no uncertain terms. Those posts were deleted by mods, and the conversation moved to this thread, sans my comments and links. You have taken it out of context and ignored the evidence, not me.
  9. #269  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    So you are not even going to acknowledge this?

    Here is a snippet:
    How do you reconcile that with this?

    In the smartphone operating system (OS) market, ''Android grew 888.8 percent in 2010 and moved to the No. 2 position. Android sales in the fourth quarter of 2010 continued to be driven by broad availability of many high-end products from HTC (Desire range, Incredible and EVO), Samsung (Galaxy S) and Motorola (Droid X, Droid 2).

    Symbian’s market share dropped further in the fourth quarter of 2010 to 32.6 percent or 32.6 million units. This allowed Android to overtake Nokia's Symbian unit sales during the fourth quarter of 2010. However, the Symbian OS is also used by Fujitsu and Sharp as well as in legacy products from Sony Ericsson and Samsung. “This aggregated volume kept Symbian slightly ahead of Android,” said Ms. Cozza.

    The wider availability of the iPhone 4 helped Apple to maintain its share of the smartphone market to 16.0 percent in the fourth quarter 2010 and led the iPhone OS platform to reach the No. 4 position in 2010. "As a platform, iOS is in excellent shape," said Ms. Milanesi. With every iPad and iPod Touch sold, Apple increases the profile of iOS with potential iPhone buyers and strengthens its developer ecosystem.
    Dated this month, BTW.
  10. #270  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    How do you reconcile that with this?

    Dated this month, BTW.
    What I posted was not just about marketshare, but usage share. There are lots of ways to slice this pie. The market may be flooded with a lot of handsets running Android. That is one data point, not necessarily the most important one.

    Personally, I think profit share is the most important, but usage also matters. It shows what people use the most to do certain things. That is a more important metric than the raw number of devices, IMO. I was not suggesting my article trumped all others, just that it deserved to be considered with the rest of the data.
  11. #271  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    What I posted was not just about marketshare, but usage share. There are lots of ways to slice this pie. The market may be flooded with a lot of handsets running Android. That is one data point, not necessarily the most important one.

    Personally, I think profit share is the most important, but usage also matters. It shows what people use the most to do certain things. That is a more important metric than the raw number of devices, IMO. I was not suggesting my article trumped all others, just that it deserved to be considered with the rest of the data.
    Err, ok. Your pull quote from that link was focused on marketshare, as well as the argument in the last page of this thread. "Usage share" sounds a bit vague and nebulous to me. But there is a conflation of different arguments into one unwieldy mass here.

    Marketshare is a battle between Android/Google and iOS/Apple. ProfitShare would be more about the between Apple and the phone manufacturers (not that Google doesn't make a profit from Android, but the model is completely different and doesn't include handset revenue). UsageShare....I....got nothing.
    Last edited by mikah912; 02/23/2011 at 09:42 AM.
  12. #272  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    UsageShare....I....got nothing.
    Then allow me to oversimplify.

    Say you have two, cheap Android phones with small screens and a crappy web experience on one side, and an iPhone on the other. Android has twice the market share. However, the one iPhone user browses the web twice as much as the two Android users combined, and buys twice the number of apps, and spends twice as much money. That is an example of usage share and profit share. Which share stat is more important? It depends on the point you are trying to make.
  13. #273  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Without context, this is all meaningless babble. In another thread, I stated that nothing is making much of a dent in iOS PROFIT share, not market share. I posted an article to that affect. You came off as if you didn't know what I meant and I showed you in no uncertain terms. Those posts were deleted by mods, and the conversation moved to this thread, sans my comments and links. You have taken it out of context and ignored the evidence, not me.
    Actually, that's not what you said, you said "profit-share of the market". I asked for clarification, and you pointed to the article (which, I should mention, was from an Apple iPhone blog). No where in it did it talk about "profit-share of the market". In my response, I asked if, by the term, you meant "market share" or "profit", you didn't respond other than to link to the article.

    In context the OP of that thread never posited that HP should try to diminish Apple's profit margin (which was what the article was about). Other than being envious of it, I doubt HP is particularly concerned about Apple's profit margin. Bringing down another company's profit margin does nothing for HP, unless they are bringing in more money.

    I'll also provide this quote from the same article:
    So, yes, Nokia has a bigger market share and Android likely will as well soon enough.
    A few posts back, you asked me if I was going to acknowledge yet another link you provided. Now I ask you, are you going to acknowledge your own link's information, or do you simply pick and choose the parts you prefer?
  14. #274  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, that's not what you said, you said "profit-share of the market"
    The market being discussed was the smartphone market, particularly in Europe and the world outside of Verizon. I have already explained profit share, which the article directly addressed. It was not about profit margin on devices. There was nothing confusing about it.

    In the even you were genuinely confused, I hope that clears it up.
  15. #275  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Then allow me to oversimplify.

    Say you have two, cheap Android phones with small screens and a crappy web experience on one side, and an iPhone on the other. Android has twice the market share. However, the one iPhone user browses the web twice as much as the two Android users combined, and buys twice the number of apps, and spends twice as much money. That is an example of usage share and profit share. Which share stat is more important? It depends on the point you are trying to make.
    Why is the amount of web browsing so important? Everything gets cordoned off into "apps" these days anyway. Many of Android's apps have the same web ads put into them to make them free, so ad revenue isn't a problem. The iPhone user may buy twice the number of apps, but that's no surprise. Developers are still almost equally interested between the two.
  16. #276  
    What are you guys arguing about?

    Apple has been the undisputed smartphone leader (Nokia, Simbian, blah blah blah), and Android phones have come on strong this year (market share, profits, multiple phones, blah blah blah). Some of those sales have been at the expense of iPhone users, some at feature phone users.

    Apple still does well, and now Android is an OS that is strongly in the mix.

    Is any of this in dispute, or are we going to have page after page defining what "is" is?

    The companies have their own goals and metrics for success. Any parsing after that is just fans trying to score a point in a *bulletin board*.
  17. #277  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    The market being discussed was the smartphone market, particularly in Europe and the world outside of Verizon. I have already explained profit share, which the article directly addressed. It was not about profit margin on devices. There was nothing confusing about it.

    In the even you were genuinely confused, I hope that clears it up.
    First of all, you did not "explain profit share", and most importantly, you didn't explain "profit-share of the market". You simply pointed to a blog (or was that blog yours?). Apple's "profit share" has nothing to do with market share, other than as their market share decreases, so will this "profit share".

    But, that's not the only thing that affects a company's profit margin. The notion that there is a fixed finite amount of "profit" out there that everyone gets to share in is incorrect. Two companies can have the same number of sales, same number of employees, and sell for the same price, and have different profit margins.

    Thus the whole premise of that article was flawed. It was; however, a very good attempt at another Apple fan to put the best spin on a steadily worsening situation. I can understand why you wanted to use it.
    Last edited by hparsons; 02/23/2011 at 10:53 AM.
  18. #278  
    Hparsons honest question: Do you think that Apple now has viable competition in the smartphone arena is a dire situation for them?

    Do you think it blows their business plan or profit margins or otherwise people over in Cupertino are holding their head saying, "oh noes!"

    Frankly, I think most of them expected this two years ago.

    You make it sound like this "steadily worsening," serious situation. But based on your predictions over the year of what HP is going to do, what Apple is going to do, what Google is going to do.....I don't think you have great insight into ANY of these company's plans.
  19. #279  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Hparsons honest question: Do you think that Apple now has viable competition in the smartphone arena is a dire situation for them?

    Do you think it blows their business plan or profit margins or otherwise people over in Cupertino are holding their head saying, "oh noes!"

    Frankly, I think most of them expected this two years ago.

    You make it sound like this "steadily worsening," serious situation. But based on your predictions over the year of what HP is going to do, what Apple is going to do, what Google is going to do.....I don't think you have great insight into ANY of these company's plans.
    I'll answer your question, but I'll also request that you answer mine.

    This is the second time I've seen a snarky reference to what I've predicted that HP, Apple, and Google is going to do. I don't think I've made many "predictions" about HP, though I've expressed some desires about what I'd like to see them do. That said, I've made no predictions about Apple or Google. i don't have a clue what they're going to do, and not much desire for the latter, and none for the former.

    I have said that if Jobs is no longer able to provide leadership to Apple, that I believe there's a good chance (50/50 was the term I used) that it would affect Apple. I stand by that one. It's not much of a prediction, and takes absolutely no insight into these company's plans (which I've never claimed to have)

    I've asked before, I'll ask again - what predictions are you talking about?

    Now, to answer your question; no, I don't think viable competition for Apple puts them in a "dire situation". I think competition is good for everyone, consumers in the short run, companies in the long run.

    That said, there are users on here that will insist, over and over, that there is no viable competition (however it's to be worded) for Apple. That no one is putting a "dent" in them, and that they simply don't care what Android does, or even HP/Palm.

    That, of course, is nonsense.
  20. #280  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    ... That said, I've made no predictions about Apple or Google. i don't have a clue what they're going to do, ...
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Let's pretend for a minute that your claim is true, and in six months the numbers pick back up (this won't happen, but that's fine, we'll play the fantasy). What has happened still remains, Android did exactly what you claimed no one could, they put a dent in Apple's market share.
    That's not a prediction, no?

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