Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 62
  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    the market grew by 800k
    palm's % of the market was 3.9

    800 * .039 = 31.2
    (800 thousand times 3.9 percent = 31.2 thousand)

    so, to keep a 3.9% market share, palm would have to have added 31.2k users out of the 800 that were added to the market.

    you just said they grew by 30k

    thats 3.9%

    (roughly speaking)
    ah, thanks. I told you I suck at math. What you are saying is that they kept to 3.9% of new purchases, not total market (total current users). Yes?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Oh, I get that. But again, do the math.

    If we take these numbers as gospel, their most recent estimate puts the total number of US smartphone owners at 61.5 million. Palm has 3.9 percent of that or 2,398,500 users. Yay, right?

    But ComScore's last report for the previous quarter ending in July (the current one linked above started in August) had the market at 53.4 million smartphone users in the US. Palm supposedly had 4.9 percent of that or 2,616,000 users.

    So not only are they not keeping up with market growth, but they just lost hundreds of thousands of users (roughly ten percent of the user base) this past quarter.

    Bottom line is...there's no good news to be found in said report unless you think a guy getting shot once as opposed to 9 times is something to celebrate.
    you're not talking about the same thing...

    you're looking at April 2010 numbers (when palm was 4.9%), and comapring them to now (3.9%). yes. thats a 1% decrease in terms of market share.

    He's talking about november until now (i believe?) in which case, assuming they're still at 3.9%, then there was no loss.

    If you're argument is that they've been losing users over the last year+, then noone is going to argue that. I believe he was talking about the last 3 months...

    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Couldn't the majority of this (as it's based on usage not sales) be accounted for by internal HP users (as they are now giving staff webOS devices right?)?
    sure. i'm not sure how anyone would 100% prove or disprove that though, as I doubt HP is going to release their numbers so that the math can be done. But, yes, if HP required everyone to switch to webOS then that could have something to do with it. I doube they'd do that though, thats a ****ty company policy...
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    HP would only have to give ~10% of their staff a Palm phone to account for that 30,000.
    Oh, they definitely "dogfooded" from the ancient stock gathering dust, but they still lost a LOT of customers. And keep in mind, Verizon didn't EOL them until the end of October and Sprint didn't until mid November, so for the vast majority of this period, their devices were still free and available on the top 3 US carriers.

    Really, the more you analyze the data, the worse it gets.
  4. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Posts
    3,868 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,556 Global Posts
    #24  
    But, yes, if HP required everyone to switch to webOS then that could have something to do with it. I doube they'd do that though, thats a ****ty company policy...
    Who mentioned "required"? However if they are pushing their own smartphones, it would be slightly odd if they were subbing blackberries? I know that Microsoft gave out 90,000 WP7 devices to staff so HP giving out 20-30,000 Pres to staff who need a new phone does not seem that unlikely.

    Indeed, I seem to remember that one of the first mentions we got here of a Pre 2 phone was a HP employee who said is what the internal system told him he had to have (anyone know the thread I'm talking about?)
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    ah, thanks. I told you I suck at math. What you are saying is that they kept to 3.9% of new purchases, not total market (total current users). Yes?
    well, assuming the numbers are correct, then if you get the same percentage of new users as you currently have, then your overal % stays the same.

    using nice, round numbers, because when I type it out it confuses even me :

    if i have 5% of 100 people, i have 5 people.

    if 100 more people join the pool, and I aquire 5% of the people who join (100 * .05 = 5), then I've added 5 more people to my list.

    I now have 10 people out of 200 (5 + 5, out of 100 + 100, is 10 out of 200)

    which is still 5% over the total pool of people.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Who mentioned "required"? However if they are pushing their own smartphones, it would be slightly odd if they were subbing blackberries? I know that Microsoft gave out 90,000 WP7 devices to staff so HP giving out 20-30,000 Pres to staff who need a new phone does not seem that unlikely.

    Indeed, I seem to remember that one of the first mentions we got here of a Pre 2 phone was a HP employee who said is what the internal system told him he had to have (anyone know the thread I'm talking about?)
    well.

    if it was a choice, and that many people took the option, then they aren't required.

    but if they just gave them to them, or only allowed the webOS devices as an upgrade, then thats pretty much requiring it...

    you're requiring it by making the other option (not getting a new phone) a really really crappy one...

    the last paragraph is a bit choppy, but:
    "Indeed, I seem to remember that one of the first mentions we got here of a Pre 2 phone was a HP employee who said is what the internal system told him he had to have (anyone know the thread I'm talking about?)"

    sounds like he was required to have it, if the internal system told him it was what he had to have.

    i may be reading that wrong though...
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    you're not talking about the same thing...

    you're looking at April 2010 numbers (when palm was 4.9%), and comapring them to now (3.9%). yes. thats a 1% decrease in terms of market share.

    He's talking about november until now (i believe?) in which case, assuming they're still at 3.9%, then there was no loss.

    If you're argument is that they've been losing users over the last year+, then noone is going to argue that. I believe he was talking about the last 3 months...
    Sorry, but no. First off, it's not April, but the period from April to July. That's the previous quarter.

    Second, his report is not "November until now". It is August to November, the quarter after the period I cited.

    Finally, I'm using their total numbers from each report. According to them, the US smartphone market grew by 8.1 MILLION users from quarter to quarter, not 800,000. Using their percentages against those summary numbers indicates continued failure, continued exodus, and continued marketshare decline.

    Failure across the board.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Sorry, but no. First off, it's not April, but the period from April to July. That's the previous quarter.

    Second, his report is not "November until now". It is August to November, the quarter after the period I cited.

    Finally, I'm using their total numbers from each report. According to them, the US smartphone market grew by 8.1 MILLION users from quarter to quarter, not 800,000. Using their percentages against those summary numbers indicates continued failure, continued exodus, and continued marketshare decline.

    Failure across the board.
    looks like i'm a victim of reading the OP and not reading the linked content
    looks like you're right. it didn't grow by 800k
    it went from 53.4 million to 61.5 million.

    i thought he was talking about a different report, from this month, and comparing it to the november numbers.

    so yes, failure all the way around.

    and yes, people are bailing on webOS. but we all pretty much knew that anyways
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    i saw this too, and all i can think is that there are a lot of people who haven't left their palm devices because they aren't up for renewal. not everyone is willing to pay 500$ for a phone, infact a lot of people have a problem paying the 100/150 for a smartphone.
    I don't think that's it at all. Most carriers have ETF fees that are far less than $500, or even $300 ((ETF + subsidised phone cost) < $500). I suspect that the vast majority of users are just not as unhappy as what has been portrayed on here.
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Only here would falling way behind market growth, losing 15 percent marketshare, and continuing to drag the bottom of the barrel be considered "good news".

    These numbers are atrocious, but expected when you have virtually no US retail presence. All that matters is what happens in the quarters from the launch of new devices onward. Trying to wring a droplet of sunshine from these marketshare reports is silly.
    Nowhere did ANYONE say the numbers were "good", just that they were 'holding steady' They had 3.9% of 60.7M and still have 3.9% of 61.5M.

    <You would> have everyone believe all users have dumped webOS and their marketshsre is "0" which is not true. Mindshare may be at 1.8% but again Moto was in "has been" status and rebounded 200%
    Last edited by pogeypre; 01/31/2011 at 10:15 AM.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by kristoffer10 View Post
    Sadly, WebOS started to die slowly with the Sprint Pre. Come Feb 9th, that day might be the kill for the Pre...
    That's funny. I'm almost positive that WebOS sales went from 0 to a couple of million uses after WebOS came out.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Nowhere did ANYONE say the numbers were "good", just that they were 'holding steady' They had 3.9% of 60.7M and still have 3.9% of 61.5M.

    <You would> have everyone believe all users have dumped webOS and their marketshsre is "0" which is not true. Mindshare may be at 1.8% but again Moto was in "has been" status and rebounded 200%
    I am simply using the numbers from the report you quote as gospel. They are not holding steady. Looking at two consecutive quarters from the SAME SOURCE, the one that YOU linked to in this thread, the market grew by 8.1 million users while Palm LOST hundreds of thousands of users. That is not holding steady. That is decline.

    I provided the link to the quarter previous to the one you cited specifically to prove this. Would you like me to copy and paste the specific sentences? I'd be happy to:

    1st:

    53.4 million people in the U.S. owned smartphones during the three months ending in July, up 11 percent from the corresponding April period.....
    Then....:

    61.5 million people in the U.S. owned smartphones during the three months ending in November, up 10 percent from the preceding three-month period
    Last edited by pogeypre; 01/31/2011 at 10:28 AM.
  13. #33  
    Me thinks that once iPhone is released on Verizion, those numbers are going to be drastically different. As for marketshare. I don't care honestly if Palm has 5 percent or 20 percent, just so long as my phone will continue to be supported, which it is and not dropped into oblivion like many of the android phones. It may not have 100k or 300k apps, but as being an iPad owner, I find most of the apps useless anyways. Since most of Palm's features are taken care of by free patches, I really only use a handful of actual paid apps. I don't know if i'll be able to pass on the Atrix though, LTE speeds is too tempting.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    looks like i'm a victim of reading the OP and not reading the linked content
    looks like you're right. it didn't grow by 800k
    it went from 53.4 million to 61.5 million.

    i thought he was talking about a different report, from this month, and comparing it to the november numbers.

    so yes, failure all the way around.

    and yes, people are bailing on webOS. but we all pretty much knew that anyways
    One bit of data that says webOS is still growing in spite of the lack of new products over the last two quarters... Pre|Central membership continues to grow, and the number of online members/guests continues to grow.

    That's based on my occasional glances to the bottom of the forums page and looking at increases in the "total member" number. I think that P|C membership has grown by more than 50,000 since I joined 12 months ago. But that's based on failing old-guy memory, so I may be off +/- by 25%. Since "most" users never visit/join forums like this, you can probably assume at least the 80/20 rule of no more than 20% of purchasers have found PreCentral, and probably only 20% of those actually become members.

    Side note: Too bad they aren't reporting phone shipments instead of sales. If the "average" Pre/Pre+ user has their phone replaced at least 3 or 4 times over the life of their contracts... that would skew the numbers and make Paln appear to be gaining in terms of % of units shipped. Just sayin...

    And considering the size of the Android and Apple installed base, I don't see AndroidCentral or TiPB pulling away from PC in those same 3 metrics.

    SO unless all the new P|C members are actually iPhone/Android users who just join for the entertainment value of arguing with P|C members... I'd say that people continue to buy webOS phones in spite of the astounding lack of effort by carriers or Palm since last spring.

    I think it's safe to say that HP has every reason to change that level of effort to justify the billions they will have spent to acquire and integrate Palm. Time will tell if they are successful, but we can certainly expect a significant effort throughout 2011. And we can expect a surge in webOS users coming back from whatever they jumped to and new users wanting to see what all the buzz is about after the feb 9th extravaganza.

    Note to Palm: Please make sure it is an extravaganza that is noisy enough to be heard above the android/iphone buzz. Thank You.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled OP.
  15. #35  
    I've yet to find anywhere, on either graph, anything that represents 4%. Maybe I don't know how to read a graph properly? Seems according to bottom graph Apple is somewhere between 25% and 50%, we'll assume that's 37.5%, for sake of argument?

    mybad that's Nokia...colors are pretty close...too bad right side of graphs don't have a tighter scale. Nice pretty colors though
  16. #36  
    The 4% includes pads,pods,music and other non phone related stuff. I thought this was a phone forum.
  17. #37  
    I figured that out, eventually. So was there any story that went along with the graphs? Or did you just find 2 graphs with no accompniement?
  18. #38  
    If you are going to post graphs and a title... please also include something explaining what this is about. If it includes ALL sales (iPod, computer, phone, pad, etc) it really has no relevance here.
  19. #39  
    What is the rest of the industry fighting for, if not money? It seems everything else is just an esoteric stat.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    What is the rest of the industry fighting for, if not money? It seems everything else is just an esoteric stat.
    These aren't one-to-one comparisons. While they all sell mobile phones, they do so with wildly varying additional product lines, business models, intentions, and demographics.

    Apple is a super-profitable company. They should be. But this is kind of a meaningless comparison.
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions