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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    The problem here is you misunderstand the issue.

    99% of the time everything is fine.
    The only failure here was whatever app you used, not a failure in the android system.

    IF you feel the need to monitor your apps, which some do, you can download "watchdog" or "watchdog lite"

    Link: Watchdog Task Manager Lite - Android app on AppBrain

    That will keep tabs on your apps and, in the rare event that an app "misbehaves", it will alert you can you can remedy the situation.
    But only in that example.
    Do NOT kill apps just because you do it in WebOS.

    The reason that what you're talking about is so "difficult to do" is because of what taharka said in his post.
    I want to be as clear as possible. I am not saying that Android is buggy. I am saying that it takes too many steps to close an app.

    I was accused of lying about the need to even close an app. I was told you can just leave apps open. I made the point that if an app is malfunctioning, and to correct the malfunction you need to close the app and open it again, then Yes, you need to close an app. Not monitor it. Close it.

    And yes, it is possible to close apps in Android, but in my opinion, it takes too many steps.

    Yes it is rare that apps malfunction, but when they malfunction in front of a client, it doesn't matter how rare it is, and you just want to get the app functioning again as soon as possible.

    I am simply echoing the sentiments of the original post in the thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by ptosto View Post
    In summary, I had assumed that I would be just as happy with the HTC and Android after a little getting used to it. In fact, the WebOS is truly a lot smoother and more comfortable to use on a daily basis.
    That is my feeling as well, and I wanted the original poster of the thread to understand that I feel the same way s/he does.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    I want to be as clear as possible. I am not saying that Android is buggy. I am saying that it takes too many steps to close an app.

    I was accused of lying about the need to even close an app. I was told you can just leave apps open. I made the point that if an app is malfunctioning, and to correct the malfunction you need to close the app and open it again, then Yes, you need to close an app. Not monitor it. Close it.

    And yes, it is possible to close apps in Android, but in my opinion, it takes too many steps.

    Yes it is rare that apps malfunction, but when they malfunction in front of a client, it doesn't matter how rare it is, and you just want to get the app functioning again as soon as possible.
    The problem is if it's easier to do then you're going to have what you had previous to Froyo [In Froyo [2.2] Google made a multi-task kill not possible].
    Previous to 2.2, people would just kill apps for fun to "save resources" and that causes serious problems.

    What kind of problems you say?
    One example:
    If you kill an ebay app it will no longer inform you of notifications unless you reopen it or restart the phone.

    That could cause you to have even more "problems" with the Android system.


    It's "easy enough to do" and that's all there is to it.

    If you are having to kill any app multiple times then maybe you should find another app that does the same or you can contact the dev and they will hopefully remedy the situation.
  3. #63  
    but I don't WANT ebay notifications. What makes it a problem if I want them to stop?
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    but I don't WANT ebay notifications. What makes it a problem if I want them to stop?
    When I say eBay notifications I mean any notification you may set in the app.

    Such as:

    "inform me when the auction is almost over"
    or
    "inform me if I'm out bid"

    If you don't WANT eBay notifications then I wouldn't set them?
    Or I just wouldn't have the app?
    lol


    But the point is, if you set them and then you kill the app, you won't get those notifications.
    You can see where the problem in that would be.

    Then the devs get blamed for "making a bad app" and Google gets blamed for "making a bad OS" in that persons eyes simply because they aren't using the system properly.

    That's why it's not "easy to do". It doesn't need to be and making it easier would cause all these issues for something that you shouldn't have to do very often.

    How often you say?
    I think I've killed an app maybe 5 or 6 times since I switched to Android and that's been half a year. And that situation has been remedied by getting rid of the app or changing to a different one that does the same.



    ADDITION: Just an addition to this. Keep in mind what we're talking about as far as the steps to do this.
    Settings > Applications > Manage Applications > Running > Pick app > Force close
    We're talking about 5 to 10 seconds for something that, if you ever have to do, shouldn't be more than an average of once a month.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 01/15/2011 at 10:11 AM. Reason: ADDITION
  5. TJB
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    #65  
    Keeping apps running seems cluttered to me. I keep thinking of how that would be on my PC if there was no way to close out a program by clicking the X. I think I would miss that.

    Maybe for those people who want to not have to worry about closing programs on their PC and letting the OS do it automagically, someone should create the same android type process of letting the system close apps for you and do away with the task bar. Just hit the back space or something to switch between all of your open apps. Then you can just control alt tab to shut stuff down IF you ever need to. Seems that would be way better than actually having the tedious process of having to click on that X every time and clicking the taskbar to open running programs. Not to mention see what programs are running.

    I wonder why someone created the App killer app in the first place. Probably many people must feel the same about keeping apps running as they do when using a PC. Its probably just what people are used to and want the same type of experience.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by TJB View Post
    Keeping apps running seems cluttered to me. I keep thinking of how that would be on my PC if there was no way to close out a program by clicking the X. I think I would miss that.

    Maybe for those people who want to not have to worry about closing programs on their PC and letting the OS do it automagically, someone should create the same android type process of letting the system close apps for you and do away with the task bar. Just hit the back space or something to switch between all of your open apps. Then you can just control alt tab to shut stuff down IF you ever need to. Seems that would be way better than actually having the tedious process of having to click on that X every time and clicking the taskbar to open running programs. Not to mention see what programs are running.

    I wonder why someone created the App killer app in the first place. Probably many people must feel the same about keeping apps running as they do when using a PC. Its probably just what people are used to and want the same type of experience.
    See, the first line is the problem and that's why task killers were created. [That and back before Android 2.0, there was some claims of issue with the android system in this respect]

    It MAY "seem" cluttered to you because you're associating Android with Windows or WebOS, but it's not.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    See, the first line is the problem and that's why task killers were created. [That and back before Android 2.0, there was some claims of issue with the android system in this respect]

    It MAY "seem" cluttered to you because you're associating Android with Windows or WebOS, but it's not.
    Well, I don't use Android, but it certainly seems cluttered to me, too. Not in terms of system resources. If you say that Android handles that adequately, I'll trust you. But in terms of _my_ resources. I often close applications on my computers (including my Pre, but also both Windows and Mac machines) to unclutter my "workspace" so it's easier for me to find the stuff I expect to use.

    I flip back and forth between applications on my computers all the time, and one of the huge improvements of the Pre over the Treo for me was that it made it easy to do that.

    How do you interact with Android to find the game you just stopped to answer a phone call, or to flip to the email with the address that you want to enter into google maps, or whatever?

    Oh, and instead of accusing Vociferous of spreading untruths about Android, it would be nice if someone could help him with the particular problems he's mentioned having. That would be far more productive, both to him, and also to those of us thinking about moving to Android. So, Android users, you have an app that is supposed to do something, and has worked in the past, but this time it fails. What do you do? (right there and then. I'm not interested in the long-term solution of "get another app".)
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    Well, I don't use Android, but it certainly seems cluttered to me, too. Not in terms of system resources. If you say that Android handles that adequately, I'll trust you. But in terms of _my_ resources. I often close applications on my computers (including my Pre, but also both Windows and Mac machines) to unclutter my "workspace" so it's easier for me to find the stuff I expect to use.
    You have to understand and respect that the Android system does that for you.
    You also have to understand and respect the fact that just because the Android system shows the app doesn't mean it's eating any system resources.


    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    I flip back and forth between applications on my computers all the time, and one of the huge improvements of the Pre over the Treo for me was that it made it easy to do that.

    How do you interact with Android to find the game you just stopped to answer a phone call, or to flip to the email with the address that you want to enter into google maps, or whatever?
    The back button will take you back to what you were just at previous to the call.
    Also, pressing the home button for one second shows you the last eight apps you've used and allows you to switch to whichever one you want.
    Moreover, with Android 3.0 it's going to be even more different and "improved". The guy that worked on WebOS's UI is working on Android now and it will have more of a WebOS based UI [IN RESPECT TO MULTI-TASKING]


    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    Oh, and instead of accusing Vociferous of spreading untruths about Android, it would be nice if someone could help him with the particular problems he's mentioned having. That would be far more productive, both to him, and also to those of us thinking about moving to Android. So, Android users, you have an app that is supposed to do something, and has worked in the past, but this time it fails. What do you do? (right there and then. I'm not interested in the long-term solution of "get another app".)
    Someone HAS helped him.
    And his claims HAVE been proven wrong.

    As far as what you do...you kill it if it's absolutely necessary.
    If it keeps happening then you go to settings > applications > manage applications > pick the app > click clear data
    If after that, it still continues to have an issue then you can uninstall it and reinstall it.
    If then, you need to find another app because obviously that developer is not developing the app correctly.


    It's the same for WebOS or Windows on your desktop.
    If you download an app or program and you continue to have the same issues after troubleshooting it then you generally find another.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post

    ADDITION: Just an addition to this. Keep in mind what we're talking about as far as the steps to do this.
    Settings > Applications > Manage Applications > Running > Pick app > Force close
    We're talking about 5 to 10 seconds for something that, if you ever have to do, shouldn't be more than an average of once a month.
    I get your point... But I just have to point out that 'easy' like that won't work for the majority of users (like my wife and non-power users).

    reading that sounds just like DOS command line stuff from the 80's.

    did you ever use WordStar?

    ctrl+kc ctri+kk ctrl+kp to select and print.

    new app request: WordStar for webOS and Android! It will be a huge seller!

    of course, I'm only kidding. I'm one of few here that are old enough to remember that stuff!
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I get your point... But I just have to point out that 'easy' like that won't work for the majority of users (like my wife and non-power users).

    reading that sounds just like DOS command line stuff from the 80's.
    This is where apps come in. If the stock way of doing it is too hard (again, I firmly believe that it shouldn't be "too easy"), on can download a multitude of apps that make closing an app a bit easier. I have QuickDesk installed and one of the features it provides is the ability to long press an app's icon from the recent task list and it will give you a context popup. In there you can click details and it takes you to the stock screen where you can "Force stop", "Clear data", etc.

    So to kill a misbehaving app in this case, you would double tap Home -> long press bad app -> tap details -> tap Force stop.

    Is it harder that swiping up? Most definitely! Should it be as easy as swiping up? IMO, no. Again, this is something that is hardly ever used and if you're using it too often (especially on the same app), it's time to do some troubleshooting as Matty suggested earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    did you ever use WordStar?

    ctrl+kc ctri+kk ctrl+kp to select and print.

    new app request: WordStar for webOS and Android! It will be a huge seller!

    of course, I'm only kidding. I'm one of few here that are old enough to remember that stuff!
    LOL. I remember WordPerfect (the DOS version). It had some crazy key combinations as well to do simple things.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    Well, I don't use Android, but it certainly seems cluttered to me, too.
    That's the first problem. No disrespect but you can't get a true feel for it just from a few of us geeks discussing it in a forum. You are judging it without any real understanding of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    Not in terms of system resources. If you say that Android handles that adequately, I'll trust you. But in terms of _my_ resources. I often close applications on my computers (including my Pre, but also both Windows and Mac machines) to unclutter my "workspace" so it's easier for me to find the stuff I expect to use.
    There is no "workspace" to clutter or unclutter in Android. The app that you are using is front and center and rest are in the invisible background. When you want to go to another app, just open it again. Android is smart enough to know if the app should be fully launched (you haven't used it in quite some time) or quick launched (you just used it so all of it's resources are still available and you can pick up where you left off). If launching it again via the app drawer or homescreen icons is not to your liking, you can long press the home button and get to the most recent 8 apps. You can install apps like QuickDesk which allows you to long press the home button and get to 15 or so of the most recent apps.
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    I flip back and forth between applications on my computers all the time, and one of the huge improvements of the Pre over the Treo for me was that it made it easy to do that.

    How do you interact with Android to find the game you just stopped to answer a phone call, or to flip to the email with the address that you want to enter into google maps, or whatever?
    See comment about long pressing home or apps like QuickDesk.

    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    Oh, and instead of accusing Vociferous of spreading untruths about Android, it would be nice if someone could help him with the particular problems he's mentioned having. That would be far more productive, both to him, and also to those of us thinking about moving to Android.
    This is where I have a slight problem. No disrespect to Vociferous but he seems more intent on siding with the OP than seeking help. Many of us have explained in great detail how this stuff works but he is clinging to the rare malfunction as proof that it doesn't. So how else do you suggest we "help him"?

    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    So, Android users, you have an app that is supposed to do something, and has worked in the past, but this time it fails. What do you do? (right there and then. I'm not interested in the long-term solution of "get another app".)
    What would you do in webOS if you find an app misbehaves and always causes you to hit "Too Many Cards"? The long-term solution on all platforms is to get another app if possible (or try contacting the developer). Short term on Android has been explained a few times already. If Android detects the malfunction, it will force close it automatically. If you want to kill it yourself, you can go through the menu taps to select and force close it. If you install things like QuickDesk, it gives you a slightly quicker way to select and force close said app. The vast majority of the time, you will not have to deal with any of this. The point of all this is that you don't typically close apps in Android. When you hit a bad app, you are going to start troubleshooting (i.e. you are no longer in the normal pattern of use) and manually force closing an app is a troubleshooting step than a normal step one would take in day-to-day life with Android. That's why it's called "Force Close" rather than simply "Close". At this point, you are forcing an issue that is outside of the normal routine.

    Think about how a luna restart in webOS. It's not something that you should have to do on a regular basis. Would you really give the user the ability to simply swipe up to perform a Luna Restart or would you force them through a slightly less convenient process? Proper user experience design would suggest that only the most frequently used options be made readily available. The stuff you use rarely should not be a simple button click away especially if that thing may carry adverse effects.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    You also have to understand and respect the fact that just because the Android system shows the app doesn't mean it's eating any system resources.
    This deserves a second mention.
  13. #73  
    It's funny, I'm at my dentist, waiting, checking out this thread and I start typing a reply and then my dentist comes in and asks when I would like to make my next appointment, and I instinctually tried to get to my calendar using the wave bar and then I realized, I can't do that.

    In WebOS you can access your settings and four other apps while an app is open. My Droid Pro does let me map my side button to any app I want. (I have it set to my pod cast app, hmmm might want to rethink that) But I do miss the simplicity of the wave bar.

    And before the Android folks start telling me how I can root my Droid to get some great Wave Bar mod I'm just saying that I miss the wave bar. That's all. I'm not telling you that YOU should miss it.

    Oh, and this was sent from my Droid Pro.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    It's funny, I'm at my dentist, waiting, checking out this thread and I start typing a reply and then my dentist comes in and asks when I would like to make my next appointment, and I instinctually tried to get to my calendar using the wave bar and then I realized, I can't do that.

    In WebOS you can access your settings and four other apps while an app is open. My Droid Pro does let me map my side button to any app I want. (I have it set to my pod cast app, hmmm might want to rethink that) But I do miss the simplicity of the wave bar.

    And before the Android folks start telling me how I can root my Droid to get some great Wave Bar mod I'm just saying that I miss the wave bar. That's all. I'm not telling you that YOU should miss it.

    Oh, and this was sent from my Droid Pro.
    I know it seems like I'm pushing QuickDesk a lot, but I just find it very useful. Take a look at it. It allows you to double tap your home button to slide a custom page full of apps over your current app. It's like the wave bar in webOS but with slots for 20 apps plus your most recent 15 or so apps.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I know it seems like I'm pushing QuickDesk a lot, but I just find it very useful. Take a look at it. It allows you to double tap your home button to slide a custom page full of apps over your current app. It's like the wave bar in webOS but with slots for 20 apps plus your most recent 15 or so apps.
    I may have to go check that app out... Sounds pretty nice!
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I know it seems like I'm pushing QuickDesk a lot, but I just find it very useful. Take a look at it. It allows you to double tap your home button to slide a custom page full of apps over your current app. It's like the wave bar in webOS but with slots for 20 apps plus your most recent 15 or so apps.

    I have to say, this QuickDesk is really interesting thus far and I'm glad you brought it up.
    The sheer ability to double tap home for your recent apps and see 15 + apps....plus the ability to use it with any launcher [I use launcher pro] is A++ in my book.




    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett92C View Post
    Can any of you Android guys recommend a good battery monitor app?
    For what purpose?

    If to actually monitor the battery to a serious degree: Battery Monitor Widget

    Battery Monitor Widget - Android app on AppBrain

    If to just monitor battery life then Battery Indicator
    Battery Indicator - Android app on AppBrain
  17. #77  
    @Matt

    I've used android enough to have an informed opinion,

    and the only reason I need for wanting to close an app is because I want to. It doesn't matter if its technically reasonable. If I wanted to be limited to what is technically necessary, id have an iPhone.

    and when I talk about the majority of potential smartphone users, its because most people don't have smartphones yet. The broader market on the other side of the chasm of tech adoption will have different requirements than early adopters like you and me. That's why android, blackberry, and even iPhone hackers are copying things like tossing cards.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @Matt

    I've used android enough to have an informed opinion,

    and the only reason I need for wanting to close an app is because I want to. It doesn't matter if its technically reasonable. If I wanted to be limited to what is technically necessary, id have an iPhone.

    and when I talk about the majority of potential smartphone users, its because most people don't have smartphones yet. The broader market on the other side of the chasm of tech adoption will have different requirements than early adopters like you and me. That's why android, blackberry, and even iPhone hackers are copying things like tossing cards.
    I didn't mean for my comment to be offensive, just being frank, so I do apologize if that's how it read to you.



    I understand what you're saying but it's like suggesting "I don't drive the right way down the express way because I follow my own laws"

    The Android system handles it.
    It handles it this way because it does it more efficiently than a user can.
    It handles it this way because it allows for fast access back to other apps without using an excess of [or sometimes ANY] resources without even having to leave the app "open"


    Is it "better" than WebOS with multi-tasking?
    That's opinion based only.

    With WebOS you HAVE to keep the app card open to continue to do whatever it is you're doing.
    With Android you don't but you also don't get the rather instant switch between apps with an "advanced gesture"

    But how many people really keep multiple cards open all the time?

    I know I rarely had multiple open and once I was done they were all closed.
    I know my mom only uses one at a time and then closes.
    And I know my brother did the same when he had a Pre.

    Therefore I would submit this:
    WebOS "card" technology is better suited for a tablet than it would be a phone.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 01/15/2011 at 02:58 PM. Reason: typographical error
  19. #79  
    its more like 'I use premium gas even though the manual says regular is fine'

    I think this particular topic has been beaten way beyond death.

    anything deeper technically or recycling the same stuff is better suited for androidcentral.com

    and no one is 'spreading lies'. Posts like that get deleted.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    its more like 'I use premium gas even though the manual says regular is fine'

    I think this particular topic has been beaten way beyond death.

    anything deeper technically or recycling the same stuff is better suited for androidcentral.com

    and no one is 'spreading lies'. Posts like that get deleted.
    The difference is there are benefits from using premium over regular. There are no benefits to closing apps on Android.
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