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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by oddlou View Post
    If you're not scared to root, you can install Cyanogenmod, which allows up to 16 (or 24, I don't remember) apps on the recent list.

    As for the OP, you can do pretty much everything you mistakenly believe that you can't quite easily, you just need to learn the OS.
    Awesome! I can root my phone and then I still have to long press the home button, and if I decide that I still have too many apps open, then I have the great and wonderous pleasure of hunting down a task killer in the settings, or I have the great honour of going to the Android market and downloading a task killer that makes my phone unstable! Yippee! Thank you soo much. This is awesome news. Now I really love this phone. Yum!
  2. #42  
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    Awesome! I can root my phone and then I still have to long press the home button, and if I decide that I still have too many apps open, then I have the great and wonderous pleasure of hunting down a task killer in the settings, or I have the great honour of going to the Android market and downloading a task killer that makes my phone unstable! Yippee! Thank you soo much. This is awesome news. Now I really love this phone. Yum!
    A task killer isn't needed. The Android system will close apps that have been opened and not used for awhile, automatically.

    And why is it such a chore to long press the home button? Its not like it takes 10 minutes.

    If you don't like that, there are also apps that you can use or roms, to change the configuration, so you can map a button to just bring up the list of recent apps, without having to long press.
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    Awesome! I can root my phone and then I still have to long press the home button...
    There is actually little need to root an Android unless you just like playing with it. You know all those patches that the developers made for webOS? Palm would only use 6 of them. Android was listening and used a myriad of them. See webOS Patches that Are Standard Android Features.

    I don't long-press the Home button very often. I often have way more than 8 things going on.

    PalmOS had Folders that allowed you to be no more than three taps away from any app. Android has Folders too and they actually work even better. Up to 256 apps are just 3 taps away: Home > {Folder} > {App}

    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    ...hunting down a task killer in the settings, or I have the great honour of going to the Android market and downloading a task killer...
    Google says that Task Killers actuall hurt, not help. This article has a wealth of information about why when Android makes an app dormant, it should be left alone.

    Vociferous, someone is giving you bad information...and they seem to be making you very angry.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 01/14/2011 at 09:28 PM.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    Awesome! I can root my phone and then I still have to long press the home button, and if I decide that I still have too many apps open, then I have the great and wonderous pleasure of hunting down a task killer in the settings, or I have the great honour of going to the Android market and downloading a task killer that makes my phone unstable! Yippee! Thank you soo much. This is awesome news. Now I really love this phone. Yum!
    As stated above, you don't need task killers on Android anymore. They don't help. The OS manages memory very well on its own. If you still want to close apps, because you're used to having to from your previous/current OS, CM (the same Rom I mentioned earlier) allows you to close an app by long pressing the back button. So, instead of swiping up twice to close the app, you can press the back button once! One less button press than WebOS to do the same thing! WAY MORE EFFICIENT!
  6. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #46  
    I have had an evo for about there days now and the whole you don't need a task manager thing is completely stupid.i don't know how many times on just there days I needed to shut down a program because it wasn't working properly and you have to open like three menus and find your program from a list of 15 to 20 things running and manually shut it down. I think I'm big boy enough to manage my own programs I don't need android to do it for me. Then they say if you use one it could mess you up? Easy to penalize me for it.I'm liking the evo but hating android. I so wish I had this evo worth webOS on it. The plan for me was get evo now see how I like it and by february 9th I'll still be within the 30 days to take it back if I like what I see then. Take it from me android pretty much sucks it's just the hardware and api's thats make the platform. In my opinion of course. Lol you can thank swype for the wrong words.
    Last edited by jwinn35; 01/14/2011 at 03:47 PM.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    I have had an evo for about there days now and the whole you don't need a task manager thing is completely stupid.i don't know how many times on just there days I needed to shut down a program because it wasn't working properly and you have to open like three menus and find your program from a list of 15 to 20 things running and manually shut it down. I think I'm big boy enough to manage my own programs I don't need android to do it for me. Then they say if you use one it could mess you up? Easy to penalize me for it.I'm liking the evo but hating android. I so wish I had this evo worth webOS on it. The plan for me was get evo now see how I like it and by february 9th I'll still be within the 30 days to take it back if I like what I see then. Take it from me android pretty much sucks it's just the hardware and api's thats make the platform. In my opinion of course. Lol you can thank swype for the wrong words.
    Please understand what Google (and everyone else) is talking about are "automatic" task killers, not the need to kill and occasional process. Automatic task killers are those that kill task ... wait for it ... automatically because you don't want XYZ to run in the background.

    And if you are using it in "manual" mode, I personally don't see the difference between having to go through a couple menus to get to the list as opposed to having to open an app to do it.

    My wife has had an EVO since June and my daughter has had an Epic since the beginning of December and they have never had to "kill" and app for the reason which you mention.
  8. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    Please understand what Google (and everyone else) is talking about are "automatic" task killers, not the need to kill and occasional process. Automatic task killers are those that kill task ... wait for it ... automatically because you don't want XYZ to run in the background.

    And if you are using it in "manual" mode, I personally don't see the difference between having to go through a couple menus to get to the list as opposed to having to open an app to do it.

    My wife has had an EVO since June and my daughter has had an Epic since the beginning of December and they have never had to "kill" and app for the reason which you mention.
    The main program I'm talking about is qik, which is a major reason to even have the evo when you have family that want to do video chat it messes up all the time and you have to kill it and restart it to get it to start to work right again. So what your saying is that the task manager that has the little android looking guy is okay to use? I haven't used it because of what every one has said about task killers.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by oddlou View Post
    I'm pretty sure Milo was directing his comment at Vociferous, whom he quoted.
    Then he definitely needs to stop calling people by their first initials, too confusing.

    Sent from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  10. #50  
    You don't have to wait for a task to be killed, you can just keep using your phone and not worry about it.

    Android manages it and if you open a new one, when too many are running, it will close old ones as needed.

    Sent from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  11. tommy27's Avatar
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    #51  
    Here is my take on this. Got the shift 3 days ago. Figured I would try out android while I waited for my touchstone to be shipped cause my 1.5 year old pre's usb port failed. Day 1: complete and utter frustration with the jumbled mess that android is. Day 2: ok, its more organized that I had originally thought but still not webos. Day 3: I'm flipping thru the phone and useing the back button without much thought. I've come to the point that instead of dumping the shift when my touchstone arrives I'm gonna hold onto it and see what hp/palm has to say in Feb. I would dump android in a second for a webos phone with this much power but I think I would be just fine holding onto the shift for a year.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    You don't have to wait for a task to be killed, you can just keep using your phone and not worry about it.

    Sent from my eVo
    Okay, Verwon, perhaps you missed my sarcasm. I'll say it once. The waiting for a task to be killed is not working for me. Task switching on Android doesn't work for me. Let it go.

    Don't get me wrong, the only reason why I'm on Android is because I need text editing on my phone. I've got a HUGE contract coming up and I can't edit and store text docs on the Pre. Fine. WebOS has it's problems. I know. And I need a hardware keyboard. Fine. No iPhone. I'm stuck with Android.

    There are some great things about Android. There are some terrible things about Android. I'm just being honest about them.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by oddlou View Post
    I'm pretty sure Milo was directing his comment at Vociferous, whom he quoted.
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    Then he definitely needs to stop calling people by their first initials, too confusing.

    Sent from my eVo
    Sorry, I was quoting Vociferous.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    ...if I decide that I still have too many apps open, then I have the great and wonderous pleasure of hunting down a task killer in the settings, or I have the great honour of going to the Android market and downloading a task killer that makes my phone unstable!


    Quote Originally Posted by verwon
    A task killer isn't needed. The Android system will close apps that have been opened and not used for awhile.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    ...I see now, I just wait, oh, I don't know, what, an hour, a half hour, I know, I'll just sit on my hands and stare at my phone and wait for a task to be killed.



    You are missing the point.

    Here is the deal. All mobile devices have a very limited amount of resources that must be managed carefully.

    Short explanation
    You typically don't worry about closing apps on Android. The number of "most recent apps" you get by long-pressing "Home" has nothing to do with how many apps can remain in the background. Android manages apps based on the amount of recourses available on the device.

    Long-winded explanation
    With webOS, the user has to take an active role in this resource management by keeping the number of opened apps within reason. This is especially true for a stock Sprint Pre and Pixi. Failure to do this results in a "Too Many Cards" error. Because the user has to take such an active role in this sort of resource management, it makes sense that the user be provided with an easy way to close apps.

    With Android, the user does not have to take an active role in this resource management. It is handled automatically by the OS. Because of this, an easy way to close apps in general does not have to be a quickly accessible feature. Think about why not every option in webOS is accesible from the slide down menu. It is because there are many features that you access very infrequently and do not need to clutter the menu.

    Now, you have to understand what this means because there is somewhat of a paradigm shift between webOS and Android in this regard. With webOS, you must close apps yourself because there is no other way that apps will close "normally". With Android, you don't normally worry about closing apps. When you are done with an app, you simply move on to the next app. If you move on to another app and Android detects that there does not exist enough resources to deal with the app you are trying to use, resources will be reclaimed from one of those apps you were likely finished with. The point is, the vast majority of the time, the user should not be concerned with managing resources by closing apps in Android.

    A tale of two houses
    Imagine you lived in a house with a specific amount of allotted energy consumption.

    webOS would give you a switch for each appliance/device/light in the house. When you want to use something, you turn it on. When you are done with it, you can either turn it off or leave it running. Every time you try to turn on something, webOS checks to see if it would take you over your cap. If there are too many things running, you get an alert and you are not allowing to turn on anything else until you go back and turn off some of the stuff you left running.

    Android gives you an on/off switch coupled with motion and monitoring sensors for each appliance/device/light in the house. When you want to use something, you turn it on. When you move on from that room or device, the motion sensor can put the item in standby mode. You don't typically worry about turning off devices. When you are done in one room, you simply leave that room and go to the next. When you get to a point that you are reaching your power usage cap, Android will go shutdown some of the devices that were placed in standby mode. It only shuts down enough devices to give you room to turn on the device you are trying to use and there are rules on when a device qualifies as a candidate to be shutdown (this way, the light you left on over the pool table in the basement is turn off before Android considers turn off your TiVo while it is recording your favorite show).

    Which is better? Well, you can decide that for yourself. Do you want to manage this stuff yourself or have it done for you? There are pros and cons to both. What I can tell you is that if you are using Android, you shouldn't try to manage apps like you would on webOS because it is not the same.

    And for the love of all things pure, DO NOT USE AUTOMATIC TASK KILLERS. Treat those things like they are the Anti-Preware (i.e. Preware is a must for webOS and Automatic Task Killers are a "must not" for Android)
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    It's not just different. It's WORSE. It takes too many steps and it's not intuitive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    YES YOU DO HAVE TO CLOSE APPS IN ANDROID!!!!!!!!!! Yes there are times when you have to close an app. Yes there are times when you have to quickly access an app that you opened and you CAN'T because you have more than 8 apps in the app switcher. Multitasking is not better than WebOS and the sooner I can ditch Android and get a WebOS device with some great hardware THE BETTER.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    Awesome! I can root my phone and then I still have to long press the home button, and if I decide that I still have too many apps open, then I have the great and wonderous pleasure of hunting down a task killer in the settings, or I have the great honour of going to the Android market and downloading a task killer that makes my phone unstable! Yippee! Thank you soo much. This is awesome news. Now I really love this phone. Yum!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    I have had an evo for about there days now and the whole you don't need a task manager thing is completely stupid.i don't know how many times on just there days I needed to shut down a program because it wasn't working properly and you have to open like three menus and find your program from a list of 15 to 20 things running and manually shut it down. I think I'm big boy enough to manage my own programs I don't need android to do it for me. Then they say if you use one it could mess you up? Easy to penalize me for it.I'm liking the evo but hating android. I so wish I had this evo worth webOS on it. The plan for me was get evo now see how I like it and by february 9th I'll still be within the 30 days to take it back if I like what I see then. Take it from me android pretty much sucks it's just the hardware and api's thats make the platform. In my opinion of course. Lol you can thank swype for the wrong words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    Okay, Verwon, perhaps you missed my sarcasm. I'll say it once. The waiting for a task to be killed is not working for me. Task switching on Android doesn't work for me. Let it go.

    Don't get me wrong, the only reason why I'm on Android is because I need text editing on my phone. I've got a HUGE contract coming up and I can't edit and store text docs on the Pre. Fine. WebOS has it's problems. I know. And I need a hardware keyboard. Fine. No iPhone. I'm stuck with Android.

    There are some great things about Android. There are some terrible things about Android. I'm just being honest about them.


    Every comment I have just quoted proves that people do not research anything before judging it.

    I can remember the same claims about WebOS.

    I could show you links to completely prove the comments about task killers wrong, but what good would it do? Others have and the response has been the same.
    It's obvious that facts are irrelevant here, which is sad.


    You do not need to use task killers in android.
    You do not need to close apps at all, period.
    It is not WebOS.
    It is a completely different system.
    Please understand and respect that.


    Much like you wouldn't want people spreading lies about WebOS, we don't want you spreading lies about Android.



    Side note: I don't think I've ever thanked so many different posts in the same thread. Certainly not one with just 56 comments.
  16. wireguy's Avatar
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    #56  
    This is such a though provoking thread...I forgot the original topic....I think it was I went from a Palm Pre to a Shift....Yes.......? Great Thread
  17. wireguy's Avatar
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    #57  
    Oh by the way I have the original Pre and really need a keyboard and slightly bigger screen. However I don't feel like waiting until June for the next WEBOS super phone...
    Should I get the shift?
    Im still getting the "too many cards" error with nothing opened and cannot read PDFs keeps crashing...
    WireGuy
  18. #58  
    Look in my experience with Android, switching between tasks is not as elegant, discoverable or fast as with WebOS. I am not trying to tell you what YOUR experience is. I can only talk about MINE.

    I'm not spreading lies, i am talking about my personal, subjective experience. You are free to do the same.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    However, when someone comes into a thread basically kicking and screaming and making claims that are easily proven wrong then people are going to respond in kind.

    You say you're not spreading lies?

    We have proven that this is completely wrong.

    Everyone is welcome to their opinion on opinion related issues/discussions, but when someone starts claiming that the sky is purple, they better be prepared for people to prove them wrong.
    Okay, this happened last week; I'm with a client. I want to find the nearest Tim Hortons. I have the Tim Horton's app. No problem. I open up the app, and for some reason, it just hung, with some weird glitches. No idea why. I think, hey, no problem, I'll just close the app and open it again, that should do the trick.

    THAT is a situation where yes, you would want to close an app. (Or kill a task for those of you not keeping score )

    As I was clicking through the settings trying to find the application manager to kill the task, and as I was getting frustrated, I was thinking, with WebOS, I would simply flick the application to the top of the screen and start it again. In my opinion, that's simpler. If I'm wrong, I am more than willing to hear arguments to the contrary.

    And I don't appreciate being called a liar.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vociferous View Post
    Okay, this happened last week; I'm with a client. I want to find the nearest Tim Hortons. I have the Tim Horton's app. No problem. I open up the app, and for some reason, it just hung, with some weird glitches. No idea why. I think, hey, no problem, I'll just close the app and open it again, that should do the trick.

    THAT is a situation where yes, you would want to close an app. (Or kill a task for those of you not keeping score )

    As I was clicking through the settings trying to find the application manager to kill the task, and as I was getting frustrated, I was thinking, with WebOS, I would simply flick the application to the top of the screen and start it again. In my opinion, that's simpler. If I'm wrong, I am more than willing to hear arguments to the contrary.
    The problem here is you misunderstand the issue.

    99% of the time everything is fine.
    The only failure here was whatever app you used, not a failure in the android system.

    IF you feel the need to monitor your apps, which some do, you can download "watchdog" or "watchdog lite"

    Link: Watchdog Task Manager Lite - Android app on AppBrain

    That will keep tabs on your apps and, in the rare event that an app "misbehaves", it will alert you so you can remedy the situation.
    But only in that example.
    Do NOT kill apps just because you do it in WebOS.



    The reason that what you're talking about is so "difficult to do" is because of what taharka said in his post.
    It doesn't NEED to be easy to do because it rarely happens....much like you don't NEED to constantly change something in WebOS like say...making "media sync" appear when you plug it in.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 01/15/2011 at 09:18 AM.
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