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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Sure the xbox is selling more now, and I did misstype. But the wii has some over 70 million and the xbox is under that, closer to 50-60 million. And the xbox has been around longer. Its true, but your missing the point. Apple doesn't need to rebrand itself. HP needs to rebrand Palm. You don't need to rename something most people don't know what it is.



    Which comes first, food or the chicken? That is a better example. There has to be enough food to feed the chickens and get the chickens to your ecosystem. Your not going to get more cooks to cook for you if you dont have chickens to eat the food you cook. However, if the food you give the chickens is not what they want then chickens go somewhere else.

    See? Yes, it is a catch 22 and it is a lot of work. But HP has the ability to do it. We shall see if they will.
    We don't know if HP has the ability to or not. They're divvying into a market they've never really played before (you can't count their little iPaq and Slate runs).

    Sure, they have funds but that doesn't mean anything. Ask Microsoft.

    Color me the eternal pessimist but I gave Palm my final backing when they made me look like an ***** to my friends when I praised the Palm Pre and webOS as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Boy, was I an *****.

    I hope that HP proves me wrong and hits a home run with the next release of webOS and devices, but I'm not holding my breath.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    We don't know if HP has the ability to or not. They're divvying into a market they've never really played before (you can't count their little iPaq and Slate runs).

    Sure, they have funds but that doesn't mean anything. Ask Microsoft.

    Color me the eternal pessimist but I gave Palm my final backing when they made me look like an ***** to my friends when I praised the Palm Pre and webOS as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Boy, was I an *****.

    I hope that HP proves me wrong and hits a home run with the next release of webOS and devices, but I'm not holding my breath.
    Sounds like you have given up, and thats fine. But HP does have the ability to create an amazing product. Palm's biggest problem before was lack of marketing skills and bad hardware. The missing features in WebOS are missed but can be fixed. It was the first gen of the product, and the first generation is never the best.

    Microsoft's problem is they are not bringing anything new to the market. But they have created a wonderful product, with a few missteps they shoun't have made. And HP does have new talent. Some from Nokia, some from Samsung, and who knows who else they have hired (although I am sure its not high profile new people -- we would have heard of that).

    HP can deliver a great product. From the leaks we have all ready seen, it appears Topaz and Opal are going to be two amazing tablets. Hopefully that translates into amazing phones, but the tipster did say the phones were nothing too amazing. Which could mean it's nothing revolutionary. Or it could be a bold face lie, who knows?

    We will find out on the 9th of Feb. We will either see amazing products we want, or we shall see HP take it;s first plunge into darkness. Because it is quite possible that if they don't do well in the mobile world HP might be on it's last legs.

    (For people who don't believe me, it is apparent in the interview with Todd Bradley that HP believes that the mobile products with WebOS is a huge part of HP's future and that they know mobile is the future. Although laptops and desktops will never go away, companies that use to be small like Apple are now huge threats because of the iPhone -- and really, Apple has changed the game by bringing the focus to mobile products)

    And remember, the guy who helped create the iPod is working with Palm. He sure has made a lot of mistakes -- but I believe that he knows how to create good products, and I also believe WebOS 1.0 and 2.0 are both good products. Maybe not better then everything out there -- but it is a good mobile OS.
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Sounds like you have given up, and thats fine. But HP does have the ability to create an amazing product. Palm's biggest problem before was lack of marketing skills and bad hardware. The missing features in WebOS are missed but can be fixed. It was the first gen of the product, and the first generation is never the best.
    I wouldn't say HP has the ability to create an amazing product. It would be more appropriate to say HP has the potential to build an amazing product, but it remains to be seen if they can realize their potential. The same could be said for Palm. They had the potential to do amazing things in the industry (and often did in their earlier years), but under Rubinstein and Elevation Partners, they came no where near their potential and failed.
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I wouldn't say HP has the ability to create an amazing product. It would be more appropriate to say HP has the potential to build an amazing product, but it remains to be seen if they can realize their potential. The same could be said for Palm. They had the potential to do amazing things in the industry (and often did in their earlier years), but under Rubinstein and Elevation Partners, they came no where near their potential and failed.
    If some has potential then they have to have the ability to get to that potential. I mean, how can someone have any potential if they have the ability? Yes, Palm had the ability to do many great things and no, they haven't done it yet. But since HP has to potential -- and therefore ability -- to do great things, Palm could finally make good on their full potential.

    Or they could fail. I am not saying HP is going to do well. Having the ability and not actually following through with their ability is possible. I am having an open mind.
  5. #145  
    The guy who wrote DOS created something with great potential (for that time) but did not have the ability to take it to the next level. It is quite possible to have great potential and lack of ability.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    The guy who wrote DOS created something with great potential (for that time) but did not have the ability to take it to the next level. It is quite possible to have great potential and lack of ability.
    Thank you. Or more generally, being born a human being may give you the potential to win an Olympic gold medal, but that potential is a far cry from having the ability to win a gold medal. We can probably all agree that HP has the potential - it remains to be seen if they have the ability.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    The guy who wrote DOS created something with great potential (for that time) but did not have the ability to take it to the next level. It is quite possible to have great potential and lack of ability.
    The guy could have had the ability but failed in the end. Like microsoft has not only potential but the ability to create a great mobile os. Will they? I don't know. Same with HP. Yes they have the ability. They have very talented people and all the resources they need. Enough partners who can build solid devices. But will they? Will they capitalize and take webos to its full potiential? I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Thank you. Or more generally, being born a human being may give you the potential to win an Olympic gold medal, but that potential is a far cry from having the ability to win a gold medal. We can probably all agree that HP has the potential - it remains to be seen if they have the ability.
    I think our definitions of ability and potential are very different. I mean, lets look at it this way. Apple has the ability to make a very good camera. They all ready do it with the iPhone. But with your logic, they don't have the ability because they haven't done it. Or Apple has the ability to make a very good set-top box that could act as a DVR (ala, Apple TV) however they choose to make the device more of a way to stream content from your iMac/iPhone to your TV -- making renting and buying movies from iTunes useful and not just something to do every once in a while.

    See? Thats what I mean. HP has every resource and tool to make a good product. And with WebOS they have a great start to something that could truly be unique and amazing. The main question is do they know how to use it? Do they know how to capitalize on their full potential?

    That has yet to be seen.

    Really, I think we are saying the same thing just you are saying potential and I say ability.
    Last edited by astraith; 01/20/2011 at 02:53 PM.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    The guy could have had the ability but failed in the end. Like microsoft has not only potential but the ability to create a great mobile os. Will they? I don't know. Same with HP. Yes they have the ability. They have very talented people and all the resources they need. Enough partners who can build solid devices. But will they? Will they capitalize and take webos to its full potiential? I don't know.



    I think our definitions of ability and potential are very different. I mean, lets look at it this way. Apple has the ability to make a very good camera. They all ready do it with the iPhone. But with your logic, they don't have the ability because they haven't done it. Or Apple has the ability to make a very good set-top box that could act as a DVR (ala, Apple TV) however they choose to make the device more of a way to stream content from your iMac/iPhone to your TV -- making renting and buying movies from iTunes useful and not just something to do every once in a while.

    See? Thats what I mean. HP has every resource and tool to make a good product. And with WebOS they have a great start to something that could truly be unique and amazing. The main question is do they know how to use it? Do they know how to capitalize on their full potential?

    That has yet to be seen.

    Really, I think we are saying the same thing just you are saying potential and I say ability.
    The difference in our viewpoints is a small but important one: proof. Potential is unproven - it is about the possible. Ability is proven - it is about the actual. So in general, I would agree with you that HP has both the potential and the ability to "make a great product," in the generic sense, as they have done this with printers and laptops. However, in the specific case of smartphones, especially ones that compete well in today's market, it remains to be seen if HP has the ability since HP has not yet proven that they have this ability. As a result, HP currently only has the potential to produce a great smartphone.

    After all, since we know HP "has the ability" design, engineer, manufacture, distribute and sell stuff, would we really say they have the ability to build a great car? Nope. But they might have the potential.
  9. #149  
    I see your point.

    A runner who has broken the 4 minute mile has that proven ability. A champion sprinter might have the potential to change events and be a champion long distance runner too but I can't think of a time that happened.

    Apple has the proven ability to create whole new markets: iTunes, iPod, iPhone, and iPad. Others may have been there years before but it is Apple that will be remembered.

    Boeing has the potential to make great phones. They have the money, technology, engineers, and business and marketing acumen to do it.

    But historically their success would be about the same as the sprinter who switches to the mile.

    - Craig
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    The difference in our viewpoints is a small but important one: proof. Potential is unproven - it is about the possible. Ability is proven - it is about the actual. So in general, I would agree with you that HP has both the potential and the ability to "make a great product," in the generic sense, as they have done this with printers and laptops. However, in the specific case of smartphones, especially ones that compete well in today's market, it remains to be seen if HP has the ability since HP has not yet proven that they have this ability. As a result, HP currently only has the potential to produce a great smartphone.

    After all, since we know HP "has the ability" design, engineer, manufacture, distribute and sell stuff, would we really say they have the ability to build a great car? Nope. But they might have the potential.
    *sigh* You just agreed without agreeing with me. Here are two definitions of ability.

    • the quality of being able to perform; a quality that permits or facilitates achievement or accomplishment
    • possession of the qualities (especially mental qualities) required to do something or get something done;


    The first definition is similar to what your saying. The second is what I am saying. But if your talking about proof, then it's not fair to judge a company who hasn't had a chance to prove themselves. Thats like saying Paton Manning doesn't have the ability to be a super bowl champion back when he was playing in Vols. I mean, he hadn't had the chance to prove himself. HP hasn't had a chance to show their cards yet. So to say they don't have the ability when they might prove themselves is kinda jumping the gun. However, saying that HP has the ability -- meaning the resources, the tools and everything they need to make a great product lineup -- but might not capitalize on their tools and resources correctly to actually make their product line up work together and become a great line up.

    See? Your using the word potential instead of ability. We are really saying the same thing.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    *sigh* You just agreed without agreeing with me. Here are two definitions of ability.

    • the quality of being able to perform; a quality that permits or facilitates achievement or accomplishment
    • possession of the qualities (especially mental qualities) required to do something or get something done;


    The first definition is similar to what your saying. The second is what I am saying. But if your talking about proof, then it's not fair to judge a company who hasn't had a chance to prove themselves. Thats like saying Paton Manning doesn't have the ability to be a super bowl champion back when he was playing in Vols. I mean, he hadn't had the chance to prove himself. HP hasn't had a chance to show their cards yet. So to say they don't have the ability when they might prove themselves is kinda jumping the gun. However, saying that HP has the ability -- meaning the resources, the tools and everything they need to make a great product lineup -- but might not capitalize on their tools and resources correctly to actually make their product line up work together and become a great line up.

    See? Your using the word potential instead of ability. We are really saying the same thing.

    Well Payton Manning was playing football in college and he was great at it. So he has great potential. However, how would you feel if he decided to play Basketball now? Football, basketball, they both sports, right? And he is tall, great athetic, he has great potential. But who is going to believe he is going to become the great basketball player without any track record?
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    Well Payton Manning was playing football in college and he was great at it. So he has great potential. However, how would you feel if he decided to play Basketball now? Football, basketball, they both sports, right? And he is tall, great athetic, he has great potential. But who is going to believe he is going to become the great basketball player without any track record?
    Thats a valid point. However, Palm -- who is apart of HP -- does have a track record in this market. Although, a shaky one. But they did manage to make a very good OS with some flaws that shouldn't have been there but were.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    You're getting further from the truth with every post. No worries, someday it might make sense to you. After all, I'm almost certain you have the potential to understand the difference, but so far you haven't indicated that you have the ability to tell the difference.
    I understand what your saying. You are saying that HP has not proven themselves in this market, thus they don't have the ability to make a good product. At least, there is no proof.

    What I am saying is that HP has the -- lets use your phrasing -- potential to make a good product. I am just using the word ability, which as I pointed out, can be used this way. Because they do have everything they need to be successful. Which, in my world, means they have the ability to do well. Or we can say "potential" to do well.

    And again, on Feb, 9th we shall see what they have planned and see if they will fall on their feet or be successful.

    As a side note, if I have potential then I must also have the right knowledge -- or "tools" -- which must mean I also have the ability. Otherwise, if I never had the ability to understand in the first place did I ever actually have potential? It is kind of like chicken first or the egg. Can one have potential if they never have ability to do it? Does a tiger have the potential to be the president of the united states? I mean, a tiger like HP has not yet proven themselves. What makes HP "potential" and tiger having no "potential"? HP has potential because they CAN make a good product. A tiger has not ability to ever become the president of the united states, therefore it has no potential to be one.

    And back to the topic -- yes, Apple will catch up. The question on everyones minds is will HP catch up?
    Last edited by astraith; 01/20/2011 at 07:43 PM.
  13. #153  
    I just spoke to Tim Cook. He has informed me that they have had to postpone catching up. Their progress continues to be blocked as they are stuck behind giant trucks carrying their $26 billion in revenue to the bank. Tim says the future doesn't look bright as they expect there to be even more trucks in the way next quarter. He claims if they don't sort this damn **** out heads will roll.
  14. #154  
    LOL
  15. #155  
    This is totally not what the OP was asking. I am sure the op knows how many iphones have been shipped.

    The fact is ios is behind webos in the user interface department and it doesnt matter because most iphone users have never heard of engadget (at least the ones I know) so as far as they know the iphone is state of the art in all departments. My iphone friends dont even know that their multitasking sucks and that there is such a thing as no home button.

    So yes, apple will continue to lag behind for a while, adding improvements here and there, and the users are going to think they have something fresh and new. Maybe one day they will leapfrog, but for now they are doing just fine with their sub par user interface.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    This is totally not what the OP was asking. I am sure the op knows how many iphones have been shipped.

    The fact is ios is behind webos in the user interface department and it doesnt matter because most iphone users have never heard of engadget (at least the ones I know) so as far as they know the iphone is state of the art in all departments. My iphone friends dont even know that their multitasking sucks and that there is such a thing as no home button.

    So yes, apple will continue to lag behind for a while, adding improvements here and there, and the users are going to think they have something fresh and new. Maybe one day they will leapfrog, but for now they are doing just fine with their sub par user interface.
    Le sigh. My friends see my phone and say to me now "Oh, it's the GOD PHONE" I may be too much of a webOS zealot for my own good. While EPIC sells 300k copies of Infinity Blade on iOS, I sit here... with my palm in my palm, and I sulk... because we can all run that game on our base specs like a 3GS can. Small pond... great OS. Come on HP... you need to market webOS well because it could be like crack if people got a whiff of it.
  17. #157  
    I have never been jealous of an iphone user. In fact I feel sorry for them, as in you poor thing you think you have the best when in fact you dont know what you are missing

    Cant wait til feb 9
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    I have never been jealous of an iphone user. In fact I feel sorry for them, as in you poor thing you think you have the best when in fact you dont know what you are missing

    Cant wait til feb 9
    Umm..that makes no sense or you wouldn't be waiting til Feb 9th for an announcement :P
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    I have never been jealous of an iphone user. In fact I feel sorry for them, as in you poor thing you think you have the best when in fact you dont know what you are missing

    Cant wait til feb 9
    Ironic.
  20. #160  
    What makes no sense. I am waiting for feb 9 to get better and newer hardware running my favorite operating system. My pre is just barely hanging on.

    If I was jelous of the iphone I would have one by now. Same for the evo, I am surrounded by them at work.
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