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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    ...
    In the end, Apple and Palm are true innovators. So is Google. Google is bringing a lot of nifty, amazing features to their OS. And this is very, very rare in a market. To have three innovators fighting it out? Usually it's only one. All three of these companies have made their fair of mistakes...
    One of the most spot-on paragraphs I've ever seen on this forum.

    You will still be disagreed with by some, of course.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    The thing about it is, I think Apple's way of multitasking is harder. Case in point, when I upgraded my non-multitasking iPod gen to the new OS last year, I couldn't figure out the multitasking. I figured it just wasn't possible. It wasn't until I did it on accident I figured it out and I was like "wow!" Even more surprising, it wasn't until 1-3 months afterwards I figured out I could kill app's by holding the home button while looking at the multitasking. Again, it was on accident, not on purpose or not by reading about the iPhone 4.

    Now with Palm WebOS, my sister who thought my Samsung Exclaim (yes -- the feature phone for Sprint) was too complicated, loves her Pixi because it's simple and easy to use. She said it took her a day or two to become a master of how it works, but was able to figure the phone out. She even knows more about WebOS then I do, and I read and keep up with all it's features (and she doesn't). BTW, my sister hates computers, so it's not like she is a tech geek like me.

    So I fail to see it being too complicated. Maybe it is for some, but for some the iPhone is too complicated -- so it goes both ways.
    I'm going to rehash on what cardfan already touched on..

    You, me and most everyone else on this forum make up a VERY small percentage of the smartphone market share. You have techie's (us) and non-techie's. Apple targets the non-techie demographic and they do that through simplicity.

    Your idea of "multitasking" is much different than that of say, your mom (or any non-tech person for that matter). They designed multitasking in a manner that the person doesn't need to worry about it, it just works. The controls are really given to the developers to control how multitasking is interfaced.

    Now, this probably doesn't appeal to you (as you've already stated through it being 'difficult') because the control has been taken away from you. If you try and understand things from the other side (non-tech) then it becomes clear why Apple's implementation works.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You think that's a reasonable and natural step the average WebOS customer who got their handset free from Amazon or Verizon or wherever wanting to upgrade their handset is going to take or be satisfied with?
    Nope. He didn't address "average WebOS customers", he was speaking about himself (or at least, appeared to be).

    The average WebOS customer that wants to upgrade their handset will simply have to wait on the OTA update. It is coming.

    How much time do we normally see for other OS's to do a major revision of their OS over the air? Factor in the fact that Palm was bought out in the interim, and I don't think the timing, overall, is that bad.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I did that. However, the only "refresh" I see is a new input box on the home screen. Where's the new UI elements or major facelift you speak of?
    You did what? I don't quite understand. I'm assuming you're talking about a different post than the one you quoted, and you downloaded the devkit.

    If so, a clarification - I didn't say anything about any "new UI elements", but there are some. Just type on the screen is new. The presentation of the screen when you're in "Launcher" mode is new with new configuration capabilities. The spell checking is new with new configuration capabilities. These are not only presentation differences, but are OS differences in the system. The entire system uses a new database engine and structure. There are new APIs which I cannot discuss, but can be found by signing the NDA and downloading the product.

    I'm not surprised you didn't find any "refresh", but I suspect it's because you don't want to find them. With your current running record of mistakes about what you "know" both about Sprint and WebOS, I would suggest you make an effort to ask questions about things you really don't know about, and only speak "athoratatively" on the things that fall in your area of expertise.

    Just a suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    The quick launch bar is new, the launcher is new (now it's like cards), just type is new... there are new buttons styling (shared with current styles) in new apps and preferences, new frames for interface elements (like contact thumbnails)...
    Dang, I forgot all about the cards...
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    I think you are the only person who thinks iPhone is too complicated. One of the thing that alot of people stay away from iphone and went to Android because Iphone is just too simple.

    Even if you are an anti Apple, or anti Iphone, you really have to give some credit to Apple to make mainstream device which is so simple, even 2 years old baby can use it. remarkable.
    I have stated quite a lot on this forum I am an Apple lover, and I actually do like the iPhone (I am more of a anti-ATT, but even less so now since I have to go to Uverse -- we'll see if I like that). And I love my iPod Touch, it's amazing.

    And if you actually read my post before the one you quoted, you will see this:

    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    iOS is behind in certain areas, but not every area. Palm is behind in many areas, but leading in others. And when this update comes to iPhone users, Apple will no longer be behind. And so many iPhone users will begin to understand why their old multitasking style with double tap was inferior to what Palm did.
    ....
    Look, I am a Mac user and I know that what Palm did Apple had thought of before.
    ....
    In the end, Apple and Palm are true innovators. So is Google. Google is bringing a lot of nifty, amazing features to their OS. And this is very, very rare in a market. ... Palm made very unreliable hardware when they said "We want to get it right the first time." Sorry folks, you didn't.
    So, I must be an Apple hater who likes to give Apple credit for being an innovator? Please, read the post (and posts) before making a claim that someone is an Apple hater, or a Palm hater, or any hater. Be sure before you say something like that.

    And the iPhone, for the most part, is simple. I did not call the iPhone complicated. I called it's multitasking function complicated. Maybe I should have said, less obvious? Maybe I did mistype. But, again, read the entire post at least before replying to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    The thing about it is, I think Apple's way of multitasking is harder.
    ...
    So I fail to see it being too complicated. Maybe it is for some, but for some the iPhone is too complicated -- so it goes both ways.
    As you can see, in that quote -- and go check for yourself, if you'd like -- I multitasking is harder. Later on I did say some think the iPhone is too complicated. But, in context, you should have seen what I was talking about and not just take the last thing I said and take it out of context. Give the iPhone to someone who just wants to make phone calls and thats it and see if they can make a phone call (and I mean thats all they want in a cell phone, and I don't just mean old people). I can name a few people who would think that the iPhone is too complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    One of the most spot-on paragraphs I've ever seen on this forum.

    You will still be disagreed with by some, of course.
    I am glad someone thought so. I thought I was being fair to all fans there, honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I'm going to rehash on what cardfan already touched on..

    You, me and most everyone else on this forum make up a VERY small percentage of the smartphone market share. You have techie's (us) and non-techie's. Apple targets the non-techie demographic and they do that through simplicity.

    Your idea of "multitasking" is much different than that of say, your mom (or any non-tech person for that matter). They designed multitasking in a manner that the person doesn't need to worry about it, it just works. The controls are really given to the developers to control how multitasking is interfaced.

    Now, this probably doesn't appeal to you (as you've already stated through it being 'difficult') because the control has been taken away from you. If you try and understand things from the other side (non-tech) then it becomes clear why Apple's implementation works.
    And again, my sister IS a non techie. She has told me a thousand times that my FEATURE phone -- a phone MADE for simple, non tech people -- is too much like a computer. She only recently got a computer because she is going back to school. She hardly touches the thing.

    And SHE thinks the Pixi is easier to use then my phone. I thought my example was clear that I understood the iPhone was used for non-techie. And, if it is for a non-techie, how is a non-tech person suppose to find out about that function of the iPhone? I don't think it should be something you accidentily do -- it should be apparent. And it wasn't.

    So there ya go.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    And, if it is for a non-techie, how is a non-tech person suppose to find out about that function of the iPhone? I don't think it should be something you accidentily do -- it should be apparent. And it wasn't.
    Multitasking isn't something that needs to be 'discovered' on the iPhone. Double-tapping the home button doesn't activate multitasking, it's just a way of switching between applications (fast switch, they call it).
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by rexalbel View Post
    Using an itouch more then my pre, let me answer this. Background/ multitasking is horrid. Defiantly NOT the best at all. Getting to the apps is annoying. I've had several non tech friends say they never use it because it annoys them to have to try and pull it out. Also, the way it multitasks is really not much different from the way it did before honestly... Aside from the nifty launcher it has now, the apps simply save state. Many apps do use some background function, but things like iming just don't work anywhere near like u would want them to. And webos has the most elegant messaging system of all, it just needs more features and services. Many of the iming apps simply don't alert you unless your in app. Copying and pasting between apps is not A's easy distpite how much better copy and paste is on the iPhone. Now... Also synergy is awesome and the new just type will be awesome. Let me also say iOS is ahead in things too. Copy and paste is way ahead on iOS. Also like how apps can coincide with each other so one app may let me use another app to save or view something. That's very cool it's got more strengths and more weaknesses as well buy it does have some big points it's behind in. The app store is what blinds that.
    I'll let this speak...



    From this article...

    Apple Ranks Highest in Customer Satisfaction of Smartphone Makers

    For the fourth consecutive year, Apple ranks highest in customer satisfaction among smartphone makers with a score of 800 out of 1,000 points. The iPhone performs particularly well in ease of operation, operating system, features and physical design…
    Apple No. 1 in smartphone satisfaction survey | Apple - CNET News

    Please, please, please compare Palm's results to the iPhone.

    That's real world results for the so-called outdated iPhone. Not fantasyland like on this forum.
    Last edited by SoFly; 01/14/2011 at 03:52 PM.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Multitasking isn't something that needs to be 'discovered' on the iPhone. Double-tapping the home button doesn't activate multitasking, it's just a way of switching between applications (fast switch, they call it).
    I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on this, but I do remember a lot of hoopla about multi-tasking on the iPhone when IOS 4 first came out, and various clams made, so I did a quick Google search on:

    iphone "double tap" multitasking

    And these are direct quotes from the first three hits I got:

    Multitasking is not difficult on the apple devices; one just has to double tap on the home button when an app is open in order to bring up new apps to choose from at the bottom of the screen. This is feature is similar to our laptop/desktop computer features as we are able to listen to music while playing a game, checking our e-mail, or browsing the internet. One can scroll through the apps by shifting it to the right and/or left of the screen.
    Most of the multitasking talk centers around the fast app switching dock. Iím going to cover that later, but before we get there I want to review the different app states: closed, suspended, and background.
    The home screen button now operates as the multitasking button.
    Now, you may be right, or they may be right (and actually, the article that provided the second quote basically agrees with what you're saying), but that's not really the point.

    The point made was that it was confusing. I'd say that when the forums that are built to help iPhone users make the above claims in error, it's a safe bet to say it's confusing.

    If they're not in error, well, we both know what that means
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on this, but I do remember a lot of hoopla about multi-tasking on the iPhone when IOS 4 first came out, and various clams made, so I did a quick Google search on:

    iphone "double tap" multitasking

    And these are direct quotes from the first three hits I got:






    Now, you may be right, or they may be right (and actually, the article that provided the second quote basically agrees with what you're saying), but that's not really the point.

    The point made was that it was confusing. I'd say that when the forums that are built to help iPhone users make the above claims in error, it's a safe bet to say it's confusing.

    If they're not in error, well, we both know what that means
    I can see how it'd be confusing to that particular demographic that's trying to take "control" of the multitasking on iOS, but like I said above, for the most part one can't.

    Double-tapping the home button is mainly for app switching. Yes, if you double-tap and then long-press the apps listed you can "close" it (all you're really doing is removing its save state, even if it's making use of a background service it'll still complete the task).

    For example, tapping the home button once to go back to the main home screen and then opening another app is the exact same as double-tapping the home button and then selecting that same app in the list of apps.
    Last edited by barkerja; 01/14/2011 at 04:05 PM.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I'll let this speak...



    From this article...

    Apple Ranks Highest in Customer Satisfaction of Smartphone Makers



    Apple No. 1 in smartphone satisfaction survey | Apple - CNET News

    Please, please, please compare Palm's results to the iPhone.

    That's real world results for the so-called outdated iPhone. Not fantasyland like on this forum.

    this is a poll, which does not look at OS just a general brand, apple rim and nokia have names and brands which are synonymous, the others do not.

    which of course leads to several questions

    first which palm phone it is not stated, palm sold a WM device concurrently with the pre, is that included here, how about the millions and millions of legacy palm devices?


    second is there a problem with the data, the palm rates higher for battery than the iphone. this is not the case for practical use when it comes to the pre, as most would atest too. perhaps that relates back to number one, perhaps it is due to differences in carriers, or usage, who knows, its not clear.

    taking a poll like this and saying it is data sure, saying it accurately captures and represents the real world, especially in relation to webOS is fantasy.

    I certainly would love to have the kind of battery life this poll implies


    furthermore the data in the actual infographic you show here, does not reflect the OS part of the study they did, where, and i quote from JD power

    http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2010185

    The study also examines operating systems commonly used in wireless smartphones. Among operating systems measured, the Android operating platform (supported by Google); the Apple operating system used in iPhone devices; and Palm’s Web OS platform perform particularly well.

    emphasis my own
    Last edited by windzilla; 01/14/2011 at 04:43 PM. Reason: spelling, just a bit
    There are four lights.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I suspect that's merely another attempt at a "jab" - but if you're serious then you don't have to do either.

    Log on to Palm's website, register as a developer, and download the SDK. You won't get the "full experience" naturally, but a purchase won't be sight unseen either.

    Then, if you like what you see, you can plunk down the $450.
    Well they should just set that up on a computer at all the Verizon stores. That should generate all kinds of buzz for webOS 2.0.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    this is a poll, which does not look at OS just a general brand, apple rim and nokia have names and brands which are synonymous, the others do not.

    which of course leads to several questions

    first which palm phone it is not stated, palm sold a WM device concurrently with the pre, is that included here, how about the millions and millions of legacy palm devices?


    second is there a problem with the data, the palm rates higher for battery than the iphone. this is not the case for practical use when it comes to the pre, as most would atest too. perhaps that relates back to number one, perhaps it is due to differences in carriers, or usage, who knows, its not clear.

    taking a poll like this and saying it is data sure, saying it accurately captures and represents the real world, especially in relation to webOS is fantasy.

    I certainly would love to have the kind of battery life this poll implies


    furthermore the data in the actual infographic you show here, does not reflect the OS part of the study they did, where, and i quote from JD power

    The study also examines operating systems commonly used in wireless smartphones. Among operating systems measured, the Android operating platform (supported by Google); the Apple operating system used in iPhone devices; and Palmís Web OS platform perform particularly well.

    emphasis my own

    Huh? I'll just use the iPhone as an example.

    Ease of operation...Is that not a question on using and interacting with the actual phone?

    Operating System...Is that not a question about iOS?

    Physical design...They must be asking about the actual iPhone product.

    Handset features...Again, asking about the iPhone.

    Battery function...Must b talking about the battery.

    Seems to me that survey was asking strictly about the phone.

    People love the iPhone compared to the other smart phones out there. The sale results point that out. You can spin it however you want. But, I and the rest of the world will live in the real world and you believe whatever you want.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Huh? I'll just use the iPhone as an example.

    Ease of operation...Is that not a question on using and interacting with the actual phone?

    Operating System...Is that not a question about iOS?

    Physical design...They must be asking about the actual iPhone product.

    Handset features...Again, asking about the iPhone.

    Battery function...Must b talking about the battery.

    Seems to me that survey was asking strictly about the phone.

    People love the iPhone compared to the other smart phones out there. The sale results point that out. You can spin it however you want. But, I and the rest of the world will live in the real world and you believe whatever you want.
    no spin, i'm critiquing the infographic as you applied it

    thats it

    the iphone is great and has great consumer satisfaction, part of that is due to the OS no doubt

    palm has many OS forms out there, you cannot use this study to compare to the current gen palm, except for explicit statements to that effect which only say webOS, like iOS performs particularly well.

    http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2010185

    no fantasy, just quoting from the article here, no spin at all.
    Last edited by windzilla; 01/14/2011 at 04:44 PM.
    There are four lights.
  14. #74  
    "Palm’s Web OS platform perform particularly well."

    I am not sure if Palm's web os platform perform well. Honestly, without the homebrew, WebOS looks for outdated. HP/Palm should've updated their OS much faster.

    Plus, I always feel like my WebOS is kind of beta. Too many bugs. I just learned to accept the problem, and look else where. Just need few more weeks to finally get the iPhone.

    For example,
    Gtalk. Since I bought the phone, maybe once a week or once a month, I can't login. I have to delete the account and re add in. That was the only solution I had. I even reported to the Palm. Now, I can't login, and I can't even delete it. I shutdown palm, and took out the battery, and I tried to delete gtalk account, still hanging. So I gave up on Gtalk on my Palm.

    Music player, too slow to open and very clumsy. Yeah, I did overclocked my Pre, but still slow. Not a good experience. Plus, I can't even play Korean MP3 on it. It was working fine until one of the OS upgrade, I forgot which one. Ever since, I can't play Korean mp3. I gave up on it, I don't really think Palm will ever fix it.

    WebOS 2.0. I remember I heard they are going to release 2.0 to Pre on Jan. Haven't heard anything yet. People making fun of Android for their fragmentation, delay on os upgrade. Pre doesn't have that issue right? they don't have much fragmentation issue, guess what? I gave up on waiting.

    My webos overall experiece is pretty low. I just learn to live with it. And I have to carry my iTouch for really useful apps.
  15. #75  
    Palm just doesn't get enough credit. I remember having touch screen phone with a full qwerty keyboard at a time when everybody else had flip phones.

    And now it seems that they are leading the way again and most phones are going to be like webos clones. They did drop the ball somewhere in the middle though and apple took full advantage, especially with web browsing
  16. #76  
    Webos out of the box DOES NOT perform well. And 18 months after launch that hasn't changed. It's gone from horrid to not-as-bad-but-still-substandard.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I can see how it'd be confusing to that particular demographic that's trying to take "control" of the multitasking on iOS, but like I said above, for the most part one can't.

    Double-tapping the home button is mainly for app switching. Yes, if you double-tap and then long-press the apps listed you can "close" it (all you're really doing is removing its save state, even if it's making use of a background service it'll still complete the task).

    For example, tapping the home button once to go back to the main home screen and then opening another app is the exact same as double-tapping the home button and then selecting that same app in the list of apps.
    Oh no, wrong wrong wrong. This had nothing to do with the "demographic that's trying to take control of the multitasking on iOS". These were instructions, from Apple-related forums, with instructions to end users. These instructions directly contridict what you were saying.

    I repeat. There's no doubt here that there's confusion.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Well they should just set that up on a computer at all the Verizon stores. That should generate all kinds of buzz for webOS 2.0.
    If you buy "sight unseen" at a Verizon store, you can still return it.

    But, I don't think there's going to be a big push at Verizon, it's just an "available" device.

    Of course, I don't think any of the objections you are raising are legitimate either, since I doubt you were ever a potential buyer, just someone coming on the forum to throw in their "this is why Palm sucks" stuff.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Webos out of the box DOES NOT perform well. And 18 months after launch that hasn't changed. It's gone from horrid to not-as-bad-but-still-substandard.
    have you used a pre 2 out of the box?

    I have, and I would disagree with you.

    but ultimatly it is a matter of opinion, you have yours i have mine.
    There are four lights.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Multitasking isn't something that needs to be 'discovered' on the iPhone. Double-tapping the home button doesn't activate multitasking, it's just a way of switching between applications (fast switch, they call it).
    Ah! Crap, I been calling it the wrong thing. OK, then FAST app switching is something that is more challenging to figure out -- and it shouldn't be.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The point made was that it was confusing. I'd say that when the forums that are built to help iPhone users make the above claims in error, it's a safe bet to say it's confusing.

    If they're not in error, well, we both know what that means
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    ...
    In the end, Apple and Palm are true innovators. So is Google.

    Two of these are household names in and outside of technology. The other no longer exists as a viable brand. I'm not sure what HP will announce next month but I'm fairly sure it will not include an innovative Palm.
    Yes, it is rumored Palm will not be called Palm any more -- but officially it still is Palm Global Business Unit, short name Palm, and it still does exist. And if you don't think Palm is an innovative company then your just ... wrong. Thats all I got to say.


    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Looks like Apple's not the one trying to catch up here.



    http://www.bgr.com/2011/01/14/images...galaxy-s-mini/
    Well, I never said Apple was the only one catching up. I don't know who that was too, since you didn't say.
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