View Poll Results: What are your plans?

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  • Just waiting for pre-orders on the 2nd.

    9 5.39%
  • I'll wait until after the 9th to decide.

    44 26.35%
  • Sticking it out.

    34 20.36%
  • PAAAAAALM!!!!

    80 47.90%
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  1. #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Then, by logical extension, shouldn't WebOS developer momentum have increased after the acquisition rather than slow to a crawl with big name developers leaving?
    true, but its like evernote just updating their application for Webos. Did we know that they were still on board before they announced such? Do we know if HP has gotten new developers on board? Do we know If HP has been seeking developers, and if not when they plan on doing so?
  2. #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    but didnt Apple, and Google have to do that at one point, before they ended up where they are today?
    Kind of. Not really, though. Apple and Google didn't have to compete against players who had a massive head start back in iOS and Android's infancy.
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    #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Microsoft is way bigger and has been trying to compete even longer and they got their new OS off the ground much faster than HP did. I don't see Apple reacting to anything Microsoft does in the pad/smartphone market in any discernible way....

    Nothing. Then, it's just a well-designed device with a great OS and ecosystem. Still a pretty big draw. It's not like the Razr where people get tired and leave. Apple has gotten people to significantly invest money in their iTunes store and App stores.

    So on one side, HP is the little guy that people are going to cheer for because they're tired of the Apple tyranny. On the other side, HP is too big not to be a serious threat. I honestly don't think either is the case, but if one is true, it's pretty hard for the other to be.
    Are you talking about HP getting iPAQ if the ground or WebOS? Because HP have been at the reigns a few months, and haven't launched a single product! Therefore how have they even started trying to get it off the ground? They bought something which had already been launched. If it was a new product then no-one would know about it and therefore HP, with their leverage could, I'm sure, get WebOS off the ground within a similar timescale to Microsofts efforts.

    As in, its becoming unfashionable, everyone has Blackberry's and iPhones, and with any fashion with such an overwhelming prescence, there will be a reaction against it. Remember they aren't just devices anymore, but an extension of yourself, reflecting who you are as an individual. If people are given the option of having something seriously good, which looks good, works well and is 'cool', which noone else has, they're gonna want it. They're gonna want to be the one to say 'yep I was the first'. People are sheep. Once some people start to leave, it won't take long for people to decide Apple aren't cool, this is different, this is cool, I want this. That's of course looking at it from a teen POV, business etc will be very different, but looking at the advertsising hints we've had, it looks like this is where HP will be aiming it.

    Though I'll admit the money in the app store (though not iTunes given all songs are now DRM-free) is a tie in, though there are plenty of Smartphone virgins out there, and young kids coming through who won't have a smartphone yet. Hook them in early and get them locked in to 'your' system is what I'd be doing. The simple fact that I can transfer most of whats on my Palm to a new Palm phone OTA is a huge attraction to stay with them.

    I was referring to Palm and WebOS as the new kid on the block sort of thing (no-one knows about webOS so despite its age, that's what it will be like). Also there's no way Apple aren't going to take HP as a serious threat in the tablet and smartphone market, no-one can be that confident of their market dominance. Complacency like that would be there downfall.
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Kind of. Not really, though. Apple and Google didn't have to compete against players who had a massive head start back in iOS and Android's infancy.
    they didnt? before Apple didnt Palm run most of the smartphone relm, im not sure though but didnt they? When Android came out we all know Apple was running stuff with IOS. Understanding even with angry birds (which came out before the android version did) a developer will make a application on a mobile device, if they feel its profitable, or if there is a incentive involved. HP had provide incentives, and if their first wave of HP webos devices are successful they will be more users and therefore the developer will be more profitable. This all rest on the notion that HP will be successful with their next wave of devices a 50 50 thing right now. Though again to me it poses a better outlook for webos if they are, for developers know with Webos under HP a profitable company, and not Palm which wasnt, that products will continue to come, and will be able to compete with the competition. Also understand even before the first IPHONE and the G1 both Apple and Google had more money, captial, and a bigger brand name then Palm ever had.
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    #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    true, but its like evernote just updating their application for Webos. Did we know that they were still on board before they announced such? Do we know if HP has gotten new developers on board? Do we know If HP has been seeking developers, and if not when they plan on doing so?
    Also there's a possibility there's plenty being developed for webOS 2.0 which isn't compatabile with 1.4.5. We may see a huge influx after Feb 9th and the ball starts rolling, but who knows.
  6. #166  
    Microsoft is way bigger and has been trying to compete even longer and they got their new OS off the ground much faster than HP did. I don't see Apple reacting to anything Microsoft does in the pad/smartphone market in any discernible way....

    Nothing. Then, it's just a well-designed device with a great OS and ecosystem. Still a pretty big draw. It's not like the Razr where people get tired and leave. Apple has gotten people to significantly invest money in their iTunes store and App stores.

    So on one side, HP is the little guy that people are going to cheer for because they're tired of the Apple tyranny. On the other side, HP is too big not to be a serious threat. I honestly don't think either is the case, but if one is true, it's pretty hard for the other to be.

    I understand your point, though remember microsoft owned WP7 already, HP didnt they just acquired Webos. HP also is trying to make their way into a market with their own OS, like microsoft and Apple has already. If Apple is looking at Microsoft, are we really going to see that. honestly? A great competitor never lets you see them worry, they play the game with their poker face right? So believe me Apple has to be concerned with any body entering the mobile space, as I believe they were when the G1 first launched, because at the end of the day theres always a chance right.
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    they didnt? before Apple didnt Palm run most of the smartphone relm, im not sure though but didnt they?
    It's a very different market now. Let's say you wanted Netflix on a phone in 2008 -- it didn't exist. If you want it in 2011, you're buying an iPhone or whichever Android phones Netflix releases their app on.
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by max167 View Post
    Ok, but HP are huge, HP have money, HP have developers and the capability, the power, the strength to get any developer they want on the planet to develop apps for their platforms.

    I think you might be underestimating the huge leverage HP have in the computing world.

    We're talking about the future here, not the god-awful webOS present, because right now I definitely would not want to sign a 2-year contract on a webOS phone, but hopefully by May, when my contract expires, things will have turned around a little.
    I keep hearing all this stuff about how much money HP has and how huge they are.

    Look at the chart below. HP sells a lot of stuff, but Apple keeps more of the cash in the end by a significant margin.

    If HP has so much leverage, etc then why do they have to sell their stuff for so cheap compared to Apple?

  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    It's a very different market now. Let's say you wanted Netflix on a phone in 2008 -- it didn't exist. If you want it in 2011, you're buying an iPhone or whichever Android phones Netflix releases their app on.
    those are the times of course. Like back then when you wanted to be able to take notes with a pen and paper you can carry around a palm pilot right? Thats technology, but its the same bases behind it. Look at how fast Android took off, it wasnt just because they were Google (though it didnt hurt) its how they executed that product, and stuck with it. We all know even after the G1 was released and how long it too it to just reach 1million sales, Google kept marketing, grabbing developers, carriers etc. Marketshare can shift drasticly just according to who shows that their product is better then the next persons, then makes it available on somehting that will appeal to the majority. So why wouldnt HP, Nokia, or even RIM be able to be just as or even more successful then Apple and Google is right now? All Im saying is theres always a chance, and IMO Webos under HP has a good chance.
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    #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I keep hearing all this stuff about how much money HP has and how huge they are.

    Look at the chart below. HP sells a lot of stuff, but Apple keeps more of the cash in the end by a significant margin.

    If HP has so much leverage, etc then why do they have to sell their stuff for so cheap compared to Apple?

    Because what Apple sells is cool and based on design, therefore they can sell their hardware at an inflated price, simple as.
  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I keep hearing all this stuff about how much money HP has and how huge they are.

    Look at the chart below. HP sells a lot of stuff, but Apple keeps more of the cash in the end by a significant margin.

    If HP has so much leverage, etc then why do they have to sell their stuff for so cheap compared to Apple?

    though it does show HP still brings in over 30 billion a Q:

    HP posted today its fourth quarter 2010 financial results, as expected, revenues and profits increased over the previous year. In particular, revenues increased by $2,500,000,000(8%) to 33.3 billion dollars, and profits increased by 10% to $4 billion.

    Apple reported 20.34 billion U.S. dollars of income and 4.31 billion U.S. dollars of profit both new records for Apple. $4.64 EPS(consensus Wall Street was $4.06 and Apple's guidance was $3.44.) A year ago, Apple posted revenue of 12.21 billion U.S. dollars from 2.53 billion U.S. dollars of profit($2.77 EPS). All said that the gross margin fell slightly, to 36.9 percent from 41.8 percent in the down years ago.

    Apple Q4: $20B revenue, $4B-profit, Mac 3.89M, 14.1 million iPhones 4.19M iPads – All new records | Top Technology Reviews
  12. #172  
    good discussions people Im out though every take care
  13. #173  
    Realizing that a number of posters here just like to pump up their egos by putting down webOS, so no amount of analysis and logic will change their mantra of "webOS sucks and you all are idiots for liking it". Certainly, challenges remain for HP. Nobody likes to start from 1% market share with large players to be fought. Still, there's plenty of reason for hope.

    First, the smartphone market can, and does, turn quickly. Not that many years ago it was largely split between RIM, Palm and WinMo. A few years ago the iPhone was everything. Now, Android is ascendant. What evidence does anyone have to make them believe it won't turn again?

    Secondly, HP has A LOT of capital and feels it needs to be a major player in this space. For comparison, HP generates nearly 3X the revenue Apple does and something like 5X the revenue Google does. While capital does not cure all ills, it greatly helps. Put another way (as we like to say in finance), there is no substitute for capital. Moreover, HP has well established distribution channels through which to sell its new products and the volume to get retailers and customers to sit up and listen. In this vein, I would not underestimate the value to the business channel for webOS's growth and ascendancy. There is a lot of value to be had basically being able to offer to provide the entire IT function to a business.

    Beyond that, I find it incredibly hard to believe that people with president in their title at the largest technology company on the planet are going to stick out their necks hosting their own event without some seriously kickin' products to announce. I would also look for significant application offerings and maybe a major webOS related IT contract announcement, something like providing a top-to-bottom IT solution for a Fortune 1000 firm.

    To close, the VZ iPhone announcement won't have a major impact on HP's Feb 9th announcement. The big "ta-da" was today, the actual landing in stores will have some buzz, but not like if the actual announcement was on the 10th. Moreover, HP's announcement needs to be big and create its own buzz and since Rubenstein, Bradley et al have upped the ante with their own event, I suspect they will deliver.

    JMHO

    Gargoyle
    JMHO
  14. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by max167 View Post
    Because what Apple sells is cool and based on design, therefore they can sell their hardware at an inflated price, simple as.
    I would say because Apple's stuff is well-designed and just works. Apple goes the extra mile to make the user experience as intuitive and simple as possible and adds extra stuff like the iLife suite.

    While HP puts Windows 7 on their stuff and some lite, trial version of video editing software with nagging advertisements to upgrade to the full version.
  15. #175  
    verizon prices are too high. way more than t-mobile or sprint. the wife and i are going to t-mobile next month and i was going to get a nexus s but after playing with an iphone 4 today i may get one on craigslist/ebay...unlock it and put on tmobile, maybe even prepaid tmobile at that.

    i can tell you alot of users whether they admit it or not will be flocking to the cdma iphone now. i hope hp is going to blow some of us fans away or i smell game over.
  16. #176  
    gargoylejps, all that revenue means nothing if they have to turn around and give a ton of it back to pay for running their business.

    What matters is what money is left after paying the bills and Apple has way more money left than HP.

    And it's my understanding that Apple gets the best deals on flash memory and mobile LCDs than anyone else in the industry. So, they have all the clout they need to get the necessary components for their products.

    HP is not going to take the risk of placing orders for as many webOS devices as Apple would place an order for. So, all those distributions channels don't mean anything if people are not going to buy the product. They first have to spend a few years trying to get their sales up. Meanwhile, Apple is not going to just stop competing in the smartphone market.
  17. #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I keep hearing all this stuff about how much money HP has and how huge they are.

    Look at the chart below. HP sells a lot of stuff, but Apple keeps more of the cash in the end by a significant margin.

    If HP has so much leverage, etc then why do they have to sell their stuff for so cheap compared to Apple?


    It's a different strategy. The boutique store downtown has a higher margin than Wal-Mart, but Wal-Mart makes more money through volume. Both are legitimate strategies employed by successful firms across the planet. HP plays in some low margin markets: printers, accessories, etc. Apple sticks to selling higher margin devices to a much smaller, but loyal user base, particularly with its Mac line of computers.

    Gargoyle
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by gargoylejps View Post
    It's a different strategy. The boutique store downtown has a higher margin than Wal-Mart, but Wal-Mart makes more money through volume. Both are legitimate strategies employed by successful firms across the planet. HP plays in some low margin markets: printers, accessories, etc. Apple sticks to selling higher margin devices to a much smaller, but loyal user base, particularly with its Mac line of computers.

    Gargoyle
    The boutique store that sells Gucci shoes for $500 is NOT the same as Wal-Mart that sells some no name shoe for $20.00. Wal-Mart does not sell shoes for $500.

    So, that analogy doesn't work for Apple and HP.

    Apple and HP both sell similar products with similar specs in the markets they compete in. Apple can just get people to pay more for their stuff than HP can.

    A better analogy for Apple and HP is Toyota and Kia. Kia (HP) sells their similar products cheaper than Toyota (Apple) does.

    Simple test for you. Go compare a Kia Sedona minivan to the Toyota Sienna minivan. Make sure the spec and features on both products are as similar as possible and tell me which minivan is cheaper. That's the perfect example of how Apple is compared to HP with the products they compete in. Not Wal-mart vs a boutique shop example.
    Last edited by SoFly; 01/11/2011 at 05:25 PM.
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by max167 View Post
    Apple's decision to try and 'sucker-punch' again and Steve Jobs' (infrequent) referrals to Palm suggest to me one thing. Apple is scared of HP/Palm. If HP launch an intergrated ecosystem of WebOS products based on the cloud (Printers, tablets, smartphones, netbooks etc) they could quite easily dominate the market. HP know it. Rubinstein knows it. Apple knows it. 2011 will be a big year for WebOS.

    Or am i just letting my imagination run wild?
    If that's the case, why did Apple back down from acquiring Palm?
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    If that's the case, why did Apple back down from acquiring Palm?
    Because they are arogant and delusional. The problem with apple is the harismatic mad man, which runs the company, as long he has the luck and all are making mistkes around him all will be good, and the sheep will come to be milked...

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