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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    So how long before google put out a Honeycomb vers for phones... And how many, if any, of the CURRENT phones, do you believe will get the update..

    while I don't dispute the definition of fragmentation the way eric schmidt put it .. However.. At the rate of android expansion this issue of all androids having different vers is real.. And finally when they got it under control with froyo.. Will we see an uprise again.

    Edit: I use the word fragmentation for a lack of a better word


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Yeah, it stinks to have a successful product. Something Palm can only dream about at this point in time...
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Hey, thanks for the insult, I'll try to be offended when I get some time (I'm a little busy at the moment, sorry).

    Anyway, a simple look at the thread title will confirm my point. Also my point was not that it is not an issue at all but rather it is not nearly as large as people here try to make it out to be. Most users really don't care.
    I don't think it's (currently) that big of an issue, but it will certainly eventually be a bigger issue, as people come to understand more about their devices.

    I'd hate to count the number of times folks have said to me "I have a computer my brother-in-law gave me, and I'm trying to get the latest version of Windows running it. It's so slow, do you think you can fix it for me?" Yes, that's going to happen with phones. I'm sure not nearly as bad, but it's going to.

    However, what about tablet devices? While consumers have just barely begun to dip their toes into that market, I see the possiblity of trouble coming on that end.

    Tablets appear to be headed for about the same price as PCs (a lady at my church was proudly showing off her $1000 iPad about a month ago). While folks won't buck (too much) against forced upgrades to phone hardware every 1-2 years for $100-$200, I think you're going to see some complaints if they find the latest version of the tablet software won't run on their tablet that they paid close to $1k for 6 months ago.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    (a lady at my church was proudly showing off her $1000 iPad about a month ago)
    How did she spend $1,000 on a device with a max price of $829? She buy that from me off of ebay?
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    How did she spend $1,000 on a device with a max price of $829? She buy that from me off of ebay?
    Absolutely no idea. I don't know enough about iPads to even say "Wow, you got the xyz device".

    Maybe she was counting the leather cover, taxes, and anything else she may have paid.

    I was a bit mind-boggled as well, since my wife has been hinting around that she wants one. When she heard the price (we were sitting together) she said "Don't you dare buy me one of those".

    She was even happier when she heard that the chances of a WebOS device are pretty good. She likes the idea of being able to use what she's "used to" on her phone.

    Yep, there are people like that out there.
  5. #65  
    If she got the most expensive one, plus paid taxes and shipping, by not ordering directly through Apple, it could have easily hit $1,000.

    I want one, but would not spend that much, plus I'd rather wait for the iPad2 and see what it offers and what the price is.

    My Evo works pretty much like a pad, so I'm in no hurry.
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  6. #66  
    What's to be confused about,people exaggerate ,when people spend money and brag about it they always round up. Should not take things so literary .

    Evo-lution
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't think it's (currently) that big of an issue, but it will certainly eventually be a bigger issue, as people come to understand more about their devices.

    I'd hate to count the number of times folks have said to me "I have a computer my brother-in-law gave me, and I'm trying to get the latest version of Windows running it. It's so slow, do you think you can fix it for me?" Yes, that's going to happen with phones. I'm sure not nearly as bad, but it's going to.

    However, what about tablet devices? While consumers have just barely begun to dip their toes into that market, I see the possiblity of trouble coming on that end.

    Tablets appear to be headed for about the same price as PCs (a lady at my church was proudly showing off her $1000 iPad about a month ago). While folks won't buck (too much) against forced upgrades to phone hardware every 1-2 years for $100-$200, I think you're going to see some complaints if they find the latest version of the tablet software won't run on their tablet that they paid close to $1k for 6 months ago.
    I think you're over-exaggerating the situation though.

    The iPad starts at $499.

    But that's Apple.

    Everything costs more with Apple. [Literally]
    Laptops that would be $500 with Windows cost $1500 with Apple.

    I think $499 is going to be the price plan for the Xoom and others.
    Going any higher really is silly.


    As has been stated before.
    People buy products for what it can do.
    Not what it may be able to do in the future.


    That being said I really doubt that manufacturers will choose to not keep their products updated for the time being.

    But, it must be respected that what is going on in the mobile world today is what was going on in the PC world leading up to 2000.

    You simply cannot expect a device that is two years out of date to run the latest software.

    Much like you can't expect a desktop that is 5 years old to run Windows 7.

    Yearly hardware updates to tablets are going to occur.
    If it's not respected that a 2010 tablet won't be on the same level as a 2012 tablet then maybe the person should wait til 2012.

    The mobile industry will slow down to what the desktop/laptop industry has. [Which is more reasonable for the common user]. Just not yet.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 01/10/2011 at 06:04 PM. Reason: typo
  8. #68  
    How does an android fragmentation thread become a discussion of iPad pricing?
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    How does an android fragmentation thread become a discussion of iPad pricing?
    Just how the conversation evolved.

    The pricing of tablets can lead to questions about if it's "right" for fragmentation to occur.



    But we should all remember that it is all on the manufacturer.
    The Android distribution system is completely different from everyone else because of the open source nature.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 01/10/2011 at 06:10 PM. Reason: smaller not larger!
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    How does an android fragmentation thread become a discussion of iPad pricing?
    Because someone wanted to dispute what I had to say, I suppose.

    My point was that if folks are going to spend double and more (up to five times as much apparently), they are going to expect more life out of them than 1 to 2 years. Thus, fragmentation is going to be more of an issue.

    We couldn't really talk about Android tablet pricing, since they're not widely available yet; but the move of OS's to the tablets are most certainly going to make people more aware of OS fragmentation.

    People are going to expect "usable life" to come closer to what they see on PCs than what they see on phones.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    but the move of OS's to the tablets are most certainly going to make people more aware of OS fragmentation.

    People are going to expect "usable life" to come closer to what they see on PCs than what they see on phones.
    I guess I have to ask; why?

    What is it about not getting the latest version of Android that makes the tablet/phone less "usable"?


    We are kinda spoiled with software updates in the mobile world [likely because of the immaturity of the mobile world].
    Think about what comes on your laptop.
    You get Windows [x] or Mac OS [x].

    If you want a new version you are welcome to purchase it and install it yourself. [Great thing about Android is, while the latter is still true the former isn't. It's free]

    What updates do you get to the OS?

    Well, I just scrolled through my Windows update history.
    Answer:
    Security updates and driver updates

    Do people riot in the street?
    No.

    People buy products for what they can do, not what they might do in the future.

    So I must reiterate the question:
    Why do you view updates as making the phone/tablet "usable"?
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 01/10/2011 at 06:42 PM. Reason: typo and added part
  12. #72  
    Thing is the "usable life" does not change just because there is a new software update that can't be applied. Even your first example of the person that got an old machine proves that. The machine was old and running old software with no issues. It only became a problem because a "new" user tried to use that device differently from how the original user was using it. The original user did not seem to care much. When his needs exceeded the capabilities of the device, he moved on and passed it on to someone else. I think the same will continue to happen in the mobile space. People just don't care about updates. They will often continue using that old product (sometimes even when "applicable" updates are available) without updates because it still meets their needs.

    There are still a handfull of people running Windows98 for example.

    Again, it's generally only us techies that really harp on the issue of which device will be updatable down the line. We are the only ones that somehow believe that a device, though it continues to function exactly as specified, is somehow "damaged" by the mere existence of a software update.
  13.    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Thing is the "usable life" does not change just because there is a new software update that can't be applied. Even your first example of the person that got an old machine proves that. The machine was old and running old software with no issues. It only became a problem because a "new" user tried to use that device differently from how the original user was using it. The original user did not seem to care much. When his needs exceeded the capabilities of the device, he moved on and passed it on to someone else. I think the same will continue to happen in the mobile space. People just don't care about updates. They will often continue using that old product (sometimes even when "applicable" updates are available) without updates because it still meets their needs.

    There are still a handfull of people running Windows98 for example.

    Again, it's generally only us techies that really harp on the issue of which device will be updatable down the line. We are the only ones that somehow believe that a device, though it continues to function exactly as specified, is somehow "damaged" by the mere existence of a software update.
    When customers come to me when they are "thinking" of transitioning from one phone category to another, since feature phones grow fewer by the day, I ask them to think about where do they see themselves in 6 months, do they "intend" to ever text message, email, facebook? Because they are holding the phone for at LEAST 2 yrs, the phones usability in 6 mos from now is actually the phone they want and need today.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    Because they are holding the phone for at LEAST 2 yrs, the phones usability in 6 mos from now is actually the phone they want and need today.
    I'm guessing we are in agreement here. Correct? The phone does not automatically become less usable simply because there is a new version of the OS.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I'm guessing we are in agreement here. Correct? The phone does not automatically become less usable simply because there is a new version of the OS.
    I would change "automatically" to "ever."


    Lack of updates never make the product, that people bought and have been using, less usable.

    If so then what has been done with the product until that update?
    Was it just unusable?
    No...
  16. sjaakb's Avatar
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    #76  
    No downside for Google don't you think?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I would change "automatically" to "ever."


    Lack of updates never make the product, that people bought and have been using, less usable.

    If so then what has been done with the product until that update?
    Was it just unusable?
    No...
    The reason I didn't go as far as saying "ever" is because we still have to consider the effects of bug/security patches.

    Still, I think if a manufacturer does not find a way to get a fix out for a major usability issue (in a timely manner), that manufacturer will suffer the consequences.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I guess I have to ask; why?

    What is it about not getting the latest version of Android that makes the tablet/phone less "usable"?
    When a new application comes out that requires OS version x.5, and the user has version x.4, they are going to ask for version x.5. If they then find out that version x.5 will not run on their system, that they purcahsed 8 months ago, and they have to purchase new hardware, they are not going to be happy.

    I've seen it. I don't think we see it so much in phones, because people already change phones every few months to every couple of years. They tend to chang computers less often. I believe that tablets are going to trend towards what happens in with PCs rather than phones (because of the higher expense).

    Somehow, I feel like I've already said this...

    Oh, and I wouldn't limit that to Android, it's just that that's the OS that is headed that direction moreso than others.
  19. #79  
    Again, I think you are mixing geeks with typical users. While there are some in both groups that this applies to, most typical users simply don't care. Most typical users don't go tapping the refresh button to check for updates like we do.

    Again, a new version of something does not automatically make the old version less useful. That applies to software as well as hardware and spans all the platforms. There are still people happily rocking the original iPhone.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    .....You simply cannot expect a device that is two years out of date to run the latest software.

    Much like you can't expect a desktop that is 5 years old to run Windows 7....
    My toshiba laptop from early 2006 that has a 1.83ghz first generation duo core, and 2 gig of ram is running window 7 just fine right now
    Last edited by cnote1287; 01/10/2011 at 08:45 PM.
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
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