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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    <<Thread cleaned>>
    Everyone needs to be more polite. None of us knows as much as we think we do. In general, statements that start with the word "You" are probably headed in the wrong direction.
    +1

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  2. spare's Avatar
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    #22  
    Does the Nexus One have Gingerbread yet?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Hey, thanks for the insult, I'll try to be offended when I get some time (I'm a little busy at the moment, sorry).

    Anyway, a simple look at the thread title will confirm my point. Also my point was not that it is not an issue at all but rather it is not nearly as large as people here try to make it out to be. Most users really don't care.
    always a pleasure Ill be here all week JK true most people now dont care, but the question is if its not contained will they?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    Does the Nexus One have Gingerbread yet?
    Twitter / Google Nexus: The Gingerbread OTA for Ne ...
  5. #25  
    Fragmentation or not....ppl are still buying the phones left and right....so who really cares??
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    Hey there .. ..while I don't dispute the definition of fragmentation the way eric schmidt put it .. However.. At the rate of android expansion this issue of all androids having different vers is real.. And finally when they got it under control with froyo.. Will we see an uprise again.

    Personally I think you're right most users don't care what vers they have.. But if it brings a cleaner UI and additional features I'm sure users will want it.

    Will this want prompt manufacturers to update to the latest vers... For some sort of loyalty or do you think that users have no loyalty to the Manufacturer with android?


    Edit: I use the word fragmentation for a lack of a better word

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Here's the thing. I believe most users buy a device that serves their need at the time of purchase with the hope that the product will continue to serve their needs in the near future. I do NOT believe users line up for updates the way we tech types do. In fact, most of them aren't usually aware that a new version of the OS is available (well, at least not until one of their tech type friends inform them as much, lol). Software fragmentation is just not as big of a deal as we'd like to believe (though it does pose some issues for developers). Hardware fragmentation is another issue. Again, users typically buy a device and they're done until the next time they are in the market for a device. They don't keep looking at tech blogs and get jealous when new hardware comes out. They simply don't care like we do.

    Brand loyalty? Sure, it exists. But it goes beyond a simple software version usually. People are loyal for all sorts of reasons. Look at how people are loyal to Palm despite the low quality products available for the past couple of years. If people are so loyal to webOS (just an example) despite all that it's missing, why do you think an un-upgraded Droid (or whatever product) will break the typical user's loyalty when most of them don't even care about the OS version?

    (I don't have any hard numbers on the following, so it's just my guess.)
    I'd bet the vast majority of users go try the phone they think will fit their needs and either return it within the trial period if it doesn't fit or they stick with it until it either breaks completely or their needs have changed and they are outside of their contracts. All the stuff that happens in between goes mostly ignored. The reason it doesn't seem like it's ignored is because there are many, MANY contracts that end every month so there is always someone "looking". But they are not looking simply because something new (be it new hardware or new software) is released.
    Last edited by taharka; 01/09/2011 at 11:48 AM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Here's the thing. I believe most users buy a device that serves their need at the time of purchase with the hope that the product will continue to serve their needs in the near future. I do NOT believe users line up for updates the way we tech types do. In fact, most of them aren't usually aware that a new version of the OS is available (well, at least not until one of their tech type friends inform them as much, lol). Software fragmentation is just not as big of a deal as we'd like to believe (though it does pose some issues for developers). Hardware fragmentation is another issue. Again, users typically buy a device and their done until the next time they are in the market for a device. They don't keep looking at tech blogs and get jealous when new hardware comes out. They simply don't care like we do.

    Brand loyalty? Sure, it exists. But it goes beyond a simple software version usually. People are loyal for all sorts of reasons. Look at how people are loyal to Palm despite the low quality products available for the past couple of years. If people are so loyal to webOS (just an example) despite all that it's missing, why do you think an un-upgraded Droid (or whatever product) will break the typical user's loyalty when most of them don't even care about the OS version?

    (I don't have any hard numbers on the following, so it's just my guess.)
    I'd bet the vast majority of users go try the phone they think will fit their needs and either return it within the trial period if it doesn't fit or they stick with it until it either breaks completely or their needs have changed and they are outside of their contracts. All the stuff that happens in between goes mostly ignored. The reason it doesn't seem like it's ignored is because there are many, MANY contracts that end every month so there is always someone "looking". But they are not looking simply because something new (be it new hardware or new software) is released.
    Ya know what's funny about what you're saying?
    I have a friend that works at Best buy and another that works at Sprint and they both have told me how it is very common that you see people still running Android 1.6 when [whatever phone] has OTA for much newer updates







    If we want to discuss the "fragmentation issue" then lets...

    What does "fragmentation" really mean...

    Basically it means that every year or two you're gonna have to upgrade your phone in order to stay current with the Android versions released...

    [practically every 2010 phone has 2.2 or will get it and pretty much is true for 2.3 as well]

    But isn't that exactly what people do anyway?

    How many people, that are smartphone users, honestly keep their phone for more than 2 years?
    Because I don't know one.
  8. #28  
    i think fragmentation is over rated. as power users, we like too tweak and experiment so whats the issue. most if not all apps will run on just about any version of android.

    android is just getting better and better. unlike webos, android at least is moving forward. waiting for anything from webos is like waiting for paint to dry.

    lets quit making excuses for webos and its hardware.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by c_legaspi View Post
    waiting for anything from webos is like waiting for paint to dry.
    A diehard would say "Oh but that paint will eventually dry. And when it does...booyah...Enyo face!" Until they realize that they need to apply yet another coat and...wait some more.

    Quote Originally Posted by c_legaspi View Post
    lets quit making excuses for webos and its hardware.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by c_legaspi View Post
    lets quit making excuses for webos and its hardware.
  11. #31  
    that is true most people only notice the version of OS, only when a program or feature either dosent work on their current version, or is not available (in general not just android). Though most consumers that are accustom to android, and are really techy will most likely just buy the latest model anyway within 6 months, so whatever OS their device has is not a issue anyways. To me the issue is the consumer who buys a phone yearly or every 2, are alot of them complaining? Are alot of them madd that their phone OS, or hardware after 6 months is outdated and cant afford to go to the latest and greatest? Only Google knows the stats on these things, all we can do is speculate what the average consumers issue or non issue is with fragmentation.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Here's the thing. I believe most users buy a device that serves their need at the time of purchase with the hope that the product will continue to serve their needs in the near future. I do NOT believe users line up for updates the way we tech types do. In fact, most of them aren't usually aware that a new version of the OS is available (well, at least not until one of their tech type friends inform them as much, lol). Software fragmentation is just not as big of a deal as we'd like to believe (though it does pose some issues for developers). Hardware fragmentation is another issue. Again, users typically buy a device and they're done until the next time they are in the market for a device. They don't keep looking at tech blogs and get jealous when new hardware comes out. They simply don't care like we do.

    Brand loyalty? Sure, it exists. But it goes beyond a simple software version usually. People are loyal for all sorts of reasons. Look at how people are loyal to Palm despite the low quality products available for the past couple of years. If people are so loyal to webOS (just an example) despite all that it's missing, why do you think an un-upgraded Droid (or whatever product) will break the typical user's loyalty when most of them don't even care about the OS version?

    (I don't have any hard numbers on the following, so it's just my guess.)
    I'd bet the vast majority of users go try the phone they think will fit their needs and either return it within the trial period if it doesn't fit or they stick with it until it either breaks completely or their needs have changed and they are outside of their contracts. All the stuff that happens in between goes mostly ignored. The reason it doesn't seem like it's ignored is because there are many, MANY contracts that end every month so there is always someone "looking". But they are not looking simply because something new (be it new hardware or new software) is released.
    I think you nailed it there. And as far as Matty's comment on whether or not people keep their phones over 2 years.... Well I just crossed the 1 year mark and the few people I do know with smartphones are in between the 1&2 year marks so, I agree with that statement too. Being that I'm about to get my 5th Pre tomorrow or the next day, and I've been using the Pre for just over a year, based on that track record, it doesn't look good for the following year, unless I happen to get a good phone that doesn't blow the speaker, have a malfunctioning space bar or loose fitting battery.

    I like webOS, it's the only smartphone OS I've used but if (and I think that's a big IF) it isn't around when it comes time for a new phone, I'll find something that's similar that I'll like.
  13. #33  
    though people you need to realize the excuses for the first webos products the pre, and pixi hardware, OS etc will come. Not only are you on a forum that favors these products, the majority as you all state are diehard Palm fans. So regardless if the next products that are introduced in feb are less then satifactory, certain people who favor webos, or palm will still support their products. So making statemnts or bashing a product on a certain products site will always get you ill responses, or excuses. The same goes for if a Palm supporter goes to android and dumps on the platform over there, regardless if its in the cross platform, other products, or whatever. All OS's will have its flaws, as does its designer, and corporation that backs it.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    To me the issue is the consumer who buys a phone yearly or every 2, are alot of them complaining? Are alot of them madd that their phone OS, or hardware after 6 months is outdated and cant afford to go to the latest and greatest? Only Google knows the stats on these things, all we can do is speculate what the average consumers issue or non issue is with fragmentation.
    I just think we'd hear about it if the majority of them were really unhappy like that. I think word would spread and sales would be affected. I think those users would discover these shortcomings during their trial period and return the device if it were a problem. Naturally, this is all speculation on my part based on what I see in my circle.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Here's the thing. I believe most users buy a device that serves their need at the time of purchase with the hope that the product will continue to serve their needs in the near future. I do NOT believe users line up for updates the way we tech types do. In fact, most of them aren't usually aware that a new version of the OS is available (well, at least not until one of their tech type friends inform them as much, lol). Software fragmentation is just not as big of a deal as we'd like to believe (though it does pose some issues for developers). Hardware fragmentation is another issue. Again, users typically buy a device and their done until the next time they are in the market for a device. They don't keep looking at tech blogs and get jealous when new hardware comes out. They simply don't care like we do.

    Brand loyalty? Sure, it exists. But it goes beyond a simple software version usually. People are loyal for all sorts of reasons. Look at how people are loyal to Palm despite the low quality products available for the past couple of years. If people are so loyal to webOS (just an example) despite all that it's missing, why do you think an un-upgraded Droid (or whatever product) will break the typical user's loyalty when most of them don't even care about the OS version?

    (I don't have any hard numbers on the following, so it's just my guess.)
    I'd bet the vast majority of users go try the phone they think will fit their needs and either return it within the trial period if it doesn't fit or they stick with it until it either breaks completely or their needs have changed and they are outside of their contracts. All the stuff that happens in between goes mostly ignored. The reason it doesn't seem like it's ignored is because there are many, MANY contracts that end every month so there is always someone "looking". But they are not looking simply because something new (be it new hardware or new software) is released.
    You raise a point about development.. If developers need to make multiple vers for , not just hardware types but software as well, their apps.. They will need to decide when to "discontinue"

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Ya know what's funny about what you're saying?
    I have a friend that works at Best buy and another that works at Sprint and they both have told me how it is very common that you see people still running Android 1.6 when [whatever phone] has OTA for much newer updates
    Yeah, they just don't care (or maybe just don't have enough geek friends).
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    I think you nailed it there. And as far as Matty's comment on whether or not people keep their phones over 2 years.... Well I just crossed the 1 year mark and the few people I do know with smartphones are in between the 1&2 year marks so, I agree with that statement too. Being that I'm about to get my 5th Pre tomorrow or the next day, and I've been using the Pre for just over a year, based on that track record, it doesn't look good for the following year, unless I happen to get a good phone that doesn't blow the speaker, have a malfunctioning space bar or loose fitting battery.

    I like webOS, it's the only smartphone OS I've used but if (and I think that's a big IF) it isn't around when it comes time for a new phone, I'll find something that's similar that I'll like.
    I myself am where you are Ive had my pre since launch day never broken or had any issues (though I had it plussed a few months ago) I tend on keeping a phone for atleast a year, maybe 2. I love the fact that the iphone has 1 model phone, supported for 1 year, and then releases a new model the year after. Though they still support the ladder year with the OS updates too. Though even if I was on android (I had a evo for 5 months) I myself would have kept it regardless of what new came out, or if I could update to the latest OS. Unless the OS update I couldnt update to, required a feature I needed in my day to day life.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    You raise a point about development.. If developers need to make multiple vers for , not just hardware types but software as well, their apps.. They will need to decide when to "discontinue"

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    They're going to have to make Tablet versions for their apps...but that is something that is not native to Android.

    It's true for IOS, BB, and yes...whenever it happens...even WebOS.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I just think we'd hear about it if the majority of them were really unhappy like that. I think word would spread and sales would be affected. I think those users would discover these shortcomings during their trial period and return the device if it were a problem. Naturally, this is all speculation on my part based on what I see in my circle.
    I agree, I think we would hear it too if it was a major issue.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    You raise a point about development.. If developers need to make multiple vers for , not just hardware types but software as well, their apps.. They will need to decide when to "discontinue"

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Yeah. With Android though, they simply specify which version is supported and the market will filter. So if the app does not work for your version of Android, you don't see it. You are right however, they they'll need to decide when to discontinue support for an old version of an app tied to an old version of the OS, but that's no different from any platform. Even webOS 2.0 has some features that are not backwards compatible with prior versions and developers must either make dual versions or a single version with multiple paths until things are synch'd up. Eventually, old hardware will no longer be supported. There were even issues with some apps between the Pre and the Pixi. This sort of thing will continue to happen on all platforms but I don't think it will be such a big deal. Users will learn to pick the right device for their needs, regardless of platform. Like, don't get a DROID X if you want video conferencing or don't get a Sprint Pixi if you need to do heavy web-browsing on your home wifi connection. If 3D gaming is your thing, certain products are better for that than others on the same platform. That's why I encourage people to use the heck out of those trial periods. Try before you buy is a wonderful thing.
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