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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Or maybe, after seeing/trying/experiencing webOS on a Pre/Pixi, those "sheeple" you describe chose something else they like better. Products have to sell themselves too.
    unlikely as that would require webOS selling well and being broadly available prior to the iphone or droid(s).

    it didn't sell and wasn't available broadly until after the droid hit and iphone already ruled the roost.

    I think android iphone wp7 webos are in a category of smartphone together that is modern touch screen oriented and good browser ect. Blackberry is not yet in that arena, there strengths are more enterprise than consumer. There is plenty of room left for wp7 webOS or revamped blackberry on the market.


    luck for us consumers it's going to be a while, and a bazillion cool gadgets, before it gets anywhere near sorted out.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    unlikely as that would require webOS selling well and being broadly available prior to the iphone or droid(s).

    it didn't sell and wasn't available broadly until after the droid hit and iphone already ruled the roost.
    Not true except for Verizon. It beat Android to Sprint and AT&T, and since Android is selling fine on both carriers, the customers were there and willing. The product was not up to snuff. And what's the excuse for sales abroad?
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Not true except for Verizon. It beat Android to Sprint and AT&T, and since Android is selling fine on both carriers, the customers were there and willing. The product was not up to snuff. And what's the excuse for sales abroad?
    it did not beat the droids or the iphone, I didn't say android

    droids and iphone bring marketing power and the theory was condumers follow that.

    since that muscle was flexed (for iphone or droid) prior too the widespread availability of the pre, and with significant force, it is not possible to draw a conclusion about advertising not being a factor based on sales which happened post advertising.

    not to mention at&t had an android handset in march and the pre in may.

    which means that android was on verizon at&t and tmobile before webOS.

    only sprint had it before android. And it was there biggest seller for a while.

    then it became outdated, crappy quality control and well you know the rest.

    bottom line the pre/pixi did not take off after some initial sprint success tepid though it may have been.

    marketing, exicution (timing, sdk, hardware and scale) carrier exclusivity, and perhaps but I feel unlikely user dislike of webOS itself, are the factors for this.

    with HP alot of the issues have a potential to be addressed, and competition met head on.

    I hope so, I love me some gadgets, and this year isn't dissapointing so far!
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    it did not beat the droids or the iphone, I didn't say android

    droids and iphone bring marketing power and the theory was condumers follow that.

    since that muscle was flexed (for iphone or droid) prior too the widespread availability of the pre, and with significant force, it is not possible to draw a conclusion about advertising not being a factor based on sales which happened post advertising.

    not to mention at&t had an android handset in march and the pre in may.

    which means that android was on verizon at&t and tmobile before webOS.
    AT&T didn't have a successful Android handset until the Captivate in July. But even that betrays a simple fact: Other handsets have prospered at AT&T after the iPhone, and the Pre Plus was not one of them. At Verizon, they made the ***** move of giving them their upgraded handset with no control over how it would be promoted or how reps would sell it. That's Palm's fault...not Verizon's.

    only sprint had it before android. And it was there biggest seller for a while.

    then it became outdated, crappy quality control and well you know the rest.

    bottom line the pre/pixi did not take off after some initial sprint success tepid though it may have been.
    Sprint carried their water for as long as possible. Their plight there is also Palm's fault.

    marketing, exicution (timing, sdk, hardware and scale) carrier exclusivity, and perhaps but I feel unlikely user dislike of webOS itself, are the factors for this.

    with HP alot of the issues have a potential to be addressed, and competition met head on.

    I hope so, I love me some gadgets, and this year isn't dissapointing so far!
    It'd be nice. But I don't think WebOS itself is a compelling enough product yet. It's not finished, native apps are barebones, and developers have been missing APIs for quite sometime. HP should address these issues before all else.
  5. #65  
    I notice that in this conversation a lot of hypothetical scenarios have been discussed.


    No offence to WebOS, or any other platform for that matter, but things happen for a reason.
    WebOS didn't fall flat because of marketing.
    It didn't fall flat because "sheeple".

    It did because of lack of dev interest and a very bad release [as far as build quality] with the Pre.

    Even at it's peak it didn't have a decent amount of dev internet.



    Apps drive consumers.
    Phones that last drive consumers.


    Dev interest isn't driven by marketing.


    By the way, I think the marketing on the Pre was pretty damn good before release.
    Every reviewer out there was questioning if it was an iphone killer or not.

    So let's not kid ourselves.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 01/10/2011 at 06:53 AM.
  6. #66  
    That was only after it was announced. They didn't keep the momentum going. They barely placed ads(if any) before release. In fact, people kept wondering where the %$#& it was and if it even was going to be released. Their self-imposed mystery tactic hurt them if you ask me; out of sight, out of mind. And they stupidly tried to go up against the 3GS for their chosen release period. Not to mention the useless ads and useless carrier ads for that matter. AT&T had the right types of ads, but by then it was too late.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #67  
    I have friends that said they chose the evo literally because it was the newest and "best" thing out
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    That was only after it was announced. They didn't keep the momentum going. They barely placed ads(if any) before release. In fact, people kept wondering where the %$#& it was and if it even was going to be released. Their self-imposed mystery tactic hurt them if you ask me; out of sight, out of mind. And they stupidly tried to go up against the 3GS for their chosen release period. Not to mention the useless ads and useless carrier ads for that matter. AT&T had the right types of ads, but by then it was too late.
    AT&t doesn't have ads....Apple does. One of apples rules are AT&T can't use the iPhone in their commercials. Thats how much Steve and company care about brand image...they refuse to let others advertise their products.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    That was only after it was announced. They didn't keep the momentum going. They barely placed ads(if any) before release. In fact, people kept wondering where the %$#& it was and if it even was going to be released. Their self-imposed mystery tactic hurt them if you ask me; out of sight, out of mind. And they stupidly tried to go up against the 3GS for their chosen release period. Not to mention the useless ads and useless carrier ads for that matter. AT&T had the right types of ads, but by then it was too late.
    My response to this would be, even at the release[where we're stating WebOS had it's most ads/interest], it was sub-sub-par to any interests in any other platform.


    I just don't buy into the "it didn't have the right marketing" argument.

    WM7 had a lot of "meh" reviews from people.
    But the dev interest was there.
    They have 5000+ apps already. I believe they have even passed the WebOS catalog by now.

    But some have even questioned if it's a flop and it has constant commercials.

    Marketing is important but it's not as important and people here want it to be.



    Quote Originally Posted by manordwall View Post
    I have friends that said they chose the evo literally because it was the newest and "best" thing out
    I believe you.
    That being said that doesn't cover the majority of smartphone buyers.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by manordwall View Post
    I have friends that said they chose the evo literally because it was the newest and "best" thing out
    I've set up 5 Android devices to use our Department email. Only one of them knew anything about the OS. They bought either because they liked the hardware or it was what the sales clerk recommended. Only us geeks buy for the OS. The masses buy what's popular or familiar because they see lots of ads on TV. Most consumers aren't that well informed. I'd love to know how many people walk into a Sprint Store to buy a Droid?

    The iPhone has become an icon, the Droid is almost there. The BB is waning and WP7 is the new kid on the block. HPalm has to bring out a good range of devices, hit the marketing hard and get developers energized. It'll take all three to get webOS rolling good.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    AT&t doesn't have ads....Apple does. One of apples rules are AT&T can't use the iPhone in their commercials. Thats how much Steve and company care about brand image...they refuse to let others advertise their products.
    I was taking about Pre ads, which they certainly did have. But it wasn't enough to sell the Pre Plus.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    My response to this would be, even at the release[where we're stating WebOS had it's most ads/interest], it was sub-sub-par to any interests in any other platform.


    I just don't buy into the "it didn't have the right marketing" argument.

    WM7 had a lot of "meh" reviews from people.
    But the dev interest was there.
    They have 5000+ apps already. I believe they have even passed the WebOS catalog by now.

    But some have even questioned if it's a flop and it has constant commercials.

    Marketing is important but it's not as important and people here want it to be.





    I believe you.
    That being said that doesn't cover the majority of smartphone buyers.
    IMO one reason is because it's MSFT and people likely bank on them being around for some time. Palm is still kinda iffy, even though HP bought them. They still are not shouting loud enough and HP isn't really helping them.

    Which underdog would you choose to develop for? MSFT openly stated all that they had to offer and what they wanted to do, and threw around money and marketing. Palm... crickets until Feb. 9.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    IMO one reason is because it's MSFT and people likely bank on them being around for some time. Palm is still kinda iffy, even though HP bought them. They still are not shouting loud enough and HP isn't really helping them.
    I think its simply more that HP isn't ready yet. Why shout from the rooftops if you're not ready?
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    If it wasn't about the marketing, WebOS would have a much larger share. Most sheeple must be told what to buy.
    And yet in the UK, it *did* have marketing and in the O2 shops was the only other phone besides the iphone to have its own stand with Palm branding. And it was still a flop. Maybe just maybe the hardware wasn't appealing?

    Having said that, people who considering themselves individualists who don't follow the herd on the basis of their smartphone choice are always good for a chuckle.
  15. #75  
    Sprint/Palm did push out quite a bit of marketing for the original Pre, and it enjoyed decent popularity there for a while. Then for whatever reason, they simply stopped advertising, and WebOS stalled.

    Chuckle if you want, but if you were to take a sampling of iPhone owners and ask them how many of them actually considered another device before making their purchase, I would eat my hat if the percentage was greater than half. Yes, some people do the homework and make a decision based on what best meets their needs, but if you claim that the majority of phone buyers are not swayed by marketing, I would say you were wrong. And if you were to argue that the iPhone would be as successful as it is today without the support of the best marketing department in the world (Apple's), then I would say you were equally wrong.



    What I am not implying is that just because a device enjoys success due to marketing, that device is automatically crap, which is what you seem to be inferring. Considering WebOS, the amount of success it lacks in the market is disproportionate to the "goodness" of the OS--because of the lack of marketing. Hardly anyone walks into a cell shop specifically looking for a WebOS device, because they don't know WebOS even exists, much less have any concept of how it is in comparison to iOS or Android. Why? Because the TV didn't tell them about it. So unless the salesperson steers them that direction, they won't know what they haven't considered. I'd wager that the majority that do ask for WebOS are probably members of this forum.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I think its simply more that HP isn't ready yet. Why shout from the rooftops if you're not ready?
    To gain interest and excitement. MSFT hasn't exactly had a smooth start with WP7 but they still got people talking. Also talking about upcoming possibilities for the OS. So far, Palm...

    It'll also be Android vs. iOS as long as Palm continues to keep it's mouth shut.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Sprint/Palm did push out quite a bit of marketing for the original Pre, and it enjoyed decent popularity there for a while. Then for whatever reason, they simply stopped advertising, and WebOS stalled.

    Chuckle if you want, but if you were to take a sampling of iPhone owners and ask them how many of them actually considered another device before making their purchase, I would eat my hat if the percentage was greater than half. Yes, some people do the homework and make a decision based on what best meets their needs, but if you claim that the majority of phone buyers are not swayed by marketing, I would say you were wrong. And if you were to argue that the iPhone would be as successful as it is today without the support of the best marketing department in the world (Apple's), then I would say you were equally wrong.



    What I am not implying is that just because a device enjoys success due to marketing, that device is automatically crap, which is what you seem to be inferring. Considering WebOS, the amount of success it lacks in the market is disproportionate to the "goodness" of the OS--because of the lack of marketing. Hardly anyone walks into a cell shop specifically looking for a WebOS device, because they don't know WebOS even exists, much less have any concept of how it is in comparison to iOS or Android. Why? Because the TV didn't tell them about it. So unless the salesperson steers them that direction, they won't know what they haven't considered. I'd wager that the majority that do ask for WebOS are probably members of this forum.
    The last paragraph is exactly how I feel. Mainstream does not know what webOS is or what it can do for them. Android and iPhone have told them what they can do for them. The iPhone especially. I think the Droid ads had the first effective "what Android does" program.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    The last paragraph is exactly how I feel. Mainstream does not know what webOS is or what it can do for them. Android and iPhone have told them what they can do for them. The iPhone especially. I think the Droid ads had the first effective "what Android does" program.
    I agree, even with Palms/sprints intially advertisment (that lady), it never showed you what the phone could do. It never showed the differences between that, IOS, and Android. Of course alot to do with Palm (becuse it still was Palms duty to advertise, even if Sprint stopped) not having the money to continue to advertise. Hence IMO the reason why you still have a strong market share for webos, because the people who got over the hardware, they really do like webos. As well as the media and anyalist screaming since day one "give us some hardware, and we will buy a webos device".
  19. #79  
    Android Surpasses Apple as the Leading OS on Mellenial Media's Network

    Mobile advertising network Millenial Media announced today that the Android OS has surpassed Apple’s iOS as the leading smartphone OS on its network.

    The news lends further support for a prediction Gartner Research made in September: that the open-source Android OS would be the leading smartphone OS by 2014.

    Android phones outsold iPhones for the first time in early 2010, and a report from Nielsen recently revealed that Android increased its share of new smartphone buyers between January and November while Apple’s share remained about steady and BlackBerry’s decreased.
  20. #80  
    Congrats to Android, it's +/- 30 phones finally outsold 1 phone.
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