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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by jsgraphicart View Post
    But its still technically open right? As long as it has that little light under the icon in the launcher? I just think its kinda bad that with apple, unless you know better, you think the program (or in this case, an app) is "closed."
    When you "QUIT" an app it is no longer open. I don't think it is fair to count "I didn't know how to do that" the same as "It doesn't do that". It's like saying that because I clicked on the minimize button in Windows and the app stays present that Windows is flawed. In that case it would be more of a user error. Same is true when people assume the "red bubble" on the mac does the same as the "black x" in windows. It's a user error and similar things happen if you switch from webOS to Android or vice versa.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    When you "QUIT" an app it is no longer open. I don't think it is fair to count "I didn't know how to do that" the same as "It doesn't do that". It's like saying that because I clicked on the minimize button in Windows and the app stays present that Windows is flawed. In that case it would be more of a user error. Same is true when people assume the "red bubble" on the mac does the same as the "black x" in windows. It's a user error and similar things happen if you switch from webOS to Android or vice versa.
    Yes, it is a user error. Its also a user preference. And for me personally, I just dont like how Apple handles that stuff. If I want to close a program, I dont want it anymore. I dont want to have to "close" the program and then "quit" the program. But thats just me of course. Not saying everyone else should believe what I believe. lol
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by jsgraphicart View Post
    Well in all those examples (games, video, youtube), those all have pause features. Its the same as if you pause it and keep it in the foreground. Its not really a save state. webOS just automatically pauses that for you when you exit. The patch to continue video just removed that from the video player. Its like what I said though. All other OS's, the app has to be specifically written for multitasking. And I believe that with webOS, the OS itself automatically allows everything to be ran at the same time without it having to be written a certain way.
    Again, two approaches to the do the same thing. In webOS there are events that developers should listen to in order to modify that app's behavior depending whether it is in the foreground or not. Same is true for Android and I believe iOS. On Android, there are documented rules on when your app's resources will be reclaimed. This does not make the multitasking any less "true". What you see with Android is that app developers have the ability to selectively keep their apps longer living or default to the stricter of the reclaiming rules. On webOS, since there is no automatic resource reclaiming it is left to the user to start and stop apps. Again, there are pros and cons to both approaches.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by jsgraphicart View Post
    Yes, it is a user error. Its also a user preference. And for me personally, I just dont like how Apple handles that stuff. If I want to close a program, I dont want it anymore. I dont want to have to "close" the program and then "quit" the program. But thats just me of course. Not saying everyone else should believe what I believe. lol
    I wasn't knocking your preference. A simple CMD+Q will quit a Mac app (just like Alt+F4 does for windows). There are menu options on both OSes as well. My point was that "Close" has a different meaning on Mac OS X. You don't "close and then quit" the program.

    You "close" (really it's more "hide") the program if you want to get out of the current context but leave the application in memory (in order to get to it faster the next time you need it)

    OR

    You "quit" the program if you want to completely get rid of it.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Again, two approaches to the do the same thing. In webOS there are events that developers should listen to in order to modify that app's behavior depending whether it is in the foreground or not. Same is true for Android and I believe iOS. On Android, there are documented rules on when your app's resources will be reclaimed. This does not make the multitasking any less "true". What you see with Android is that app developers have the ability to selectively keep their apps longer living or default to the stricter of the reclaiming rules. On webOS, since there is no automatic resource reclaiming it is left to the user to start and stop apps. Again, there are pros and cons to both approaches.
    You are right. There are pros and cons. Just like my comment on computers, its a user preference too. I myself like to be in charge of what is running and whats not and what to leave open and what to close. Im not saying other OS's dont multitask. They do it in their own way. Just saying webOS by default allows all apps to be ran at the same time.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by jsgraphicart View Post
    You are right. There are pros and cons. Just like my comment on computers, its a user preference too. I myself like to be in charge of what is running and whats not and what to leave open and what to close. Im not saying other OS's dont multitask. They do it in their own way. Just saying webOS by default allows all apps to be ran at the same time.
    I'm cool with that. Again, I'm not knocking your preference, just explaining what I see as a common misunderstanding. They both allow apps to be ran at the same time but have different defaults in when an app's recourses are available to be reclaimed. That's all I was trying to present.

    By they way, you are in full control over what's running on Android (and I believe iOS). You can manually stop an app just like in webOS if you'd like. However, doing this is not a simple swipe up as it is in webOS.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I'm cool with that. Again, I'm not knocking your preference, just explaining what I see as a common misunderstanding. They both allow apps to be ran at the same time but have different defaults in when an app's recourses are available to be reclaimed. That's all I was trying to present.

    By they way, you are in full control over what's running on Android (and I believe iOS). You can manually stop an app just like in webOS if you'd like. However, doing this is not a simple swipe up as it is in webOS.
    No Problem. i get what you are saying.

    I know you can keep apps open on both OS's. webOS, in my opinion, just handles them better.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    if that were true, how does the patch work that has youtube play in the background? How does it work that I can watch multiple browser cards load at once while polling for email, etc?
    There is only one CPU in your phone. It is only doing one thing at a time. What you see is PFM, Pure Magic.

    On my Pre or EVO I can get an email and start a reply...
    ...while listening to music...
    ...get a text and reply to it...
    ...Google a store name to get the address...
    ...click the link for a Google map to the location...
    ...get a calendar reminder...
    ...take a picture...
    ...go back and finish the email right where I left off...
    ...and the music never skips a beat.

    In webOS, I have to make sure to never throw a card away or my work is lost. In Android, I "close" an app but still go right where I left off.

    We call it Multitasking but what it really was doing was time-sharing. It was like a juggler with 10 things up in the air at once. The music was at 100kHz. The CPU clock runs 10,000 times that fast.

    Another analogy is your TV, PC, or LED clock display. The display refreshes rows of dots. A movie camera's scan rate can make that effect very obvious when the displays flicker. So they now digitally put a picture over the displays in editing. The persistence in your retina makes it so that you just can't see that only one row was on at a time in real life.

    That is what your phone is doing. Even all of these things running at once take so few clock cycles that the CPU spends most of it's time just waiting to do the next thing.

    It's Clark's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

    It's PFM.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 01/03/2011 at 02:05 PM.
  9. #29  
    last time I checked (Ive had both evo and pre) both platforms android and webos multitask just in a different matter. Though yes there are more applications that Webos multitask then other platforms, but believe me Android multitask just as well IMO. To me it comes down to which you prefer to multitask with, card metaphor or a hold and switch applications type. Also for the above comment alot of applications on webos still run in the background after it is closed like the basketball application for instance. You open the app let it load then close the app by swiping the card away. The app still runs in the background the same as it would with the card open, giving you updates on scores through notifications. Even the video player app (with the patch) can be minized and still continue to play. So to me everything webos can do essentially android can do multitask wise, and it will only come down to which someone prefers.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post

    In webOS, I have to make sure to never throw a card away or my work is lost. In Android, I "close" an app but still go right where I left off.



    - Craig
    What???!?!?

    If i swipe a card it always saves what i was doing.. whether in an email app , notes or contacts etc... please clarify what you mean by this?!?!?
  11. #31  
    I have to agree with sketchy. Never had that problem when I was using my Pre. Even if I swiped something away, such as when I was in the middle of typing a text, email or memo, it was there waiting for me, when I relaunched the app. In messaging and email, it would automatically save it as a draft.

    I have noticed that this is the same on my Evo. So, that's not a valid complaint.
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  12. #32  
    To clear up the Mac confusion, you are not closing a program when you click the red X. You are simply closing the window. The confusion comes from bringing a Windows-centric perspective to the Mac.
  13. #33  
    Yeah, there are hooks in webOS so an app knows when it is being activated, deactivated, etc. So a developer can take advantage of these and perform processes like saving data. If an app loses data when it is closed, blame the developer not webOS.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    We call it Multitasking but what it really was doing was time-sharing.
    Um, that's exactly what multi-tasking IS, time-sharing resources. I think you've been confusing multi-tasking with multi-threading.


    As for iOS, it does "multi-tasking" in that there are a limited selection of processes that developers can implement to run in the background while an app is in the savestate list. iOS doesn't allow developers to implement TRUE multi-tasking like webOS or, I believe, Android allow to their app developers. By default apps in iOS only get the icon listing in the savestate list. If the app developer doesn't actively implement any of the limited "multi-tasking" processes then nothing is running from that app. The app is just sitting in memory, unless the dev didn't implement the "savestate" triggers either, then all that's in that savestate list is a shortcut to re-launch the app.



    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    To clear up the Mac confusion, you are not closing a program when you click the red X. You are simply closing the window. The confusion comes from bringing a Windows-centric perspective to the Mac.
    Actually, I believe the earlier Mac OSes used this "Windows-centric" method as well.
  15. spare's Avatar
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    #35  
    Everyone interested in iOS multitasking should read this great article. TidBITS iPhone iPad iPod: What is Fast App Switching?

    Quote Originally Posted by taharka
    By they way, you are in full control over what's running on Android (and I believe iOS). You can manually stop an app just like in webOS if you'd like. However, doing this is not a simple swipe up as it is in webOS.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but both Android and iOS can decide to close a background app the user didn't want closed. In webOS, the user has control over which background app stays open (as long as the app is in card or dashboard mode or not a core app like the phone app). And doesn't Android (like linux) load apps into memory that you may or may not want in memory? I'm not saying these are bad things but the user has less control over them.
    Also, webOS does implement resource claiming but limits it to clearing the browser/google maps which is why those apps need to refresh when you are low on memory. (Given that Mode Switcher can close apps, use it with a low memory trigger and it can auto close apps similar to Android/iOS I would think but you'd have to ask sconix if you want that feature).

    Quote Originally Posted by delta7
    Android keeps the last 8th Apps running in memory and it's pretty quiet on in my opinion.
    Actually, it's a list of the last 6/8 recently used apps. Those apps may or may not be running. iOS does a similar recent apps list except instead of running, they may or may not be sitting in memory (unless specifically using an allowed background operation).
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but both Android and iOS can decide to close a background app the user didn't want closed.
    A very good article on this topic: Android Developers Blog: Multitasking the Android Way
    A key to how Android handles applications in this way is that processes don't shut down cleanly. When the user leaves an application, its process is kept around in the background, allowing it to continue working (for example downloading web pages) if needed, and come immediately to the foreground if the user returns to it. If a device never runs out of memory, then Android will keep all of these processes around, truly leaving all applications "running" all of the time.
    It goes on to mention the lifecycle and resource reclaiming rules on when resources are reclaimed and why you never get "Too Many Cards" on Android. After following the lifecycle and reclaiming rules, if resources are needed, then Android will force kill apps based on the rules.
    it does this brutally, simply force-killing it. The kernel can then immediately reclaim all resources needed by the process, without relying on that application being well written and responsive to a polite request to exit. Allowing the kernel to immediately reclaim application resources makes it a lot easier to avoid serious out of memory situations.
    So you basically have the same control as you do in webOS. The difference is how that control is managed. In webOS, if you run low on resources, you are not allowed to launch any more apps (for better or worse). In Android, if you run low on resources, you are allowed to launch more apps but Android will "make room" by killing apps (that have already been save-stated) based on some well documented rules (again, for better or worse).

    On both platforms, if you want to close an app manually, you can.
  17. #37  
    all I know is IMing sucks on ios. If I switch apps I don't seem to et IMs unless I go back to that app. That's not how multitasking should work. If I have aim on, I should be notified of an IM regardless of screen being on or off or what else I'm using. As long as the app is in the background, which it is not, it's frozen. Thus this form of multitasking is merely a gimmick and more of a quick app switching thing because alot of apps did save state oreviously if I remember correctly, you just couldn't save recently used apps in a list, which is what the multitasking seems to be. No hatred towards apple. I actually use my itouch more then my pre now lol. Just saying, I couldn't get an iphone because as a messaging and multitasking device, webos wins. And that's what I want my phone to be. Do lots quickly and message people
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by rexalbel View Post
    all I know is IMing sucks on ios. If I switch apps I don't seem to et IMs unless I go back to that app. That's not how multitasking should work. If I have aim on, I should be notified of an IM regardless of screen being on or off or what else I'm using. As long as the app is in the background, which it is not, it's frozen. Thus this form of multitasking is merely a gimmick and more of a quick app switching thing because alot of apps did save state oreviously if I remember correctly, you just couldn't save recently used apps in a list, which is what the multitasking seems to be. No hatred towards apple. I actually use my itouch more then my pre now lol. Just saying, I couldn't get an iphone because as a messaging and multitasking device, webos wins. And that's what I want my phone to be. Do lots quickly and message people
    You probably have the notifications (PUSH) disabled for that specific app.

    Most people (apparently here) don't understand how multitasking works on iOS at all. A "running" app in the background, unless it's a navigation or music app, shouldn't be consuming any resources when not opened. When you double-click the home button and see the apps listed, those don't really indicate an active running app.

    It all depends on the developer and how they handle things when the app is closed. Like I said above, the only applications that should consume any sort of resources that one should be concerned about are music and navigation applications.

    In regards to the op's original post, you may have a defective unit.. it shouldn't take longer than 2 hours max to recharge a fully depleted iPod/iPhone/iPad. You can charge an iPod from < 20% to 90% in about 30 minutes.
  19. #39  
    Yeah, with iOS, only the app on the screen is 'running'.

    Other apps can use a small selection of background services (eg. playing audio, downloading or polling from a server, etc) to maintain the illusion of multitasking, but in reality, every app except the current one is totally suspended and on standby (ie. kept in memory in case you want to swap back to it, but not actually running).

    Re: the original poster.

    The thing that kills battery fastest is stuff like the wifi/bluetooth/3g antenna. If it's losing connection and trying to reconnect, that drains the battery super fast. So make sure it has a stable connection, or that you put it in airplane mode.
    Australian Apple fan
    Wannabe webOS developer, Multimedia designer & UI designer

    I have some app ideas, but really need to get a better handle of how this jscript stuff works!
  20. Helidos's Avatar
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    #40  
    Multitask this and multitask that, it a shame that average Joe doesn't give a crap. Now apple and google hit the ground running selling features that Joe's been wanting.

    Now here comes palm all hip and cool selling multitasking ya know the stuff windows 3.1 could do.

    But in the end as you can see one of the three has been sold recently, guess multitasking on phones is not all it's cracked up to be.
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