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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    don't confuse you're goal to not be like everyone else with Palm's or HPs goal to sell a phone that everyone wants. You've done nothing but prove my point. All the palm zealots are off base with the don't be like the other guy stuff. Palm, HP and everyone else needs to do exactly what the other guy does well. They aren't trying to make a geek phone. They are trying to make an everybody phone. They are trying to make grab the sheep. Join the Pepsi generation isn't saying, don't be like everyone else it's saying be part of us Be part of this big group of people. And there's a difference. They aren't saying we're too cool for school like the people that want their phone as some sort of geek cred, we're different and superior, statement.

    Hip-Hop hamsters? Great. Hip-Hop is the biggest selling music genre on the planet. It's an appeal to the masses not the few. But i've never heard a rap song with a Kia. My friends don't drive Kias. A couple have 7 series BMWs though.

    Think different still had apple lagging behind windows. And they dropped that for the slogan "Switch". People can have their phone to be different but bottom line is to be successful Palm has to be a lot more like the other guys.
    First of all- you don't know WHAT my goals are, so you are a little lost on that point.

    2) As to your arguments , they are mostly off-base. Pepsi was #2 behind Coke when they ran those ads... got a bit of a bump from those (and the MJ ads). Didn't get #1, but did better (kind of like what Palm is trying to do). You get half credit for that, because they were presenting themselves as being "it" when sales figures compared to Coke didn't actually justify it.

    3) "Palm zealots" do exist, as do "zealots" of every other platform, including the few who probably still swear by the Moto razor. It doesn't matter how rational a position may seem to you or me, what matters (from a marketing standpoint) is can you convert it into sales. Not even the biggest Palm 'haters' think that a "Look! I can do that too" approach will get them anywhere but where they currently are. Being the 5th place phone that is just like everyone else doesn't get you anywhere. Success is the goal, distinction will be the path. You want to imitate the success of those ahead of you, not necessarily their path.

    4) if you don't know that a significant number of phone users (and all other consumers) are driven to purchase by "unique-itis", then you really don't get out much. Go pick up a copy of "Advertising Age" or some other advertising trade magazine and get back to me after reading a few issues.

    5) Smart companies coming from behind don't swing for the fences, they try to get back into the game first. Kia doesn't care much what your friends drive, unless your friends make up 75% of their market. You can't offer the Lexus and Infiniti until you can roll out the Honda's and Toyota's successfully.

    You may not drive a Kia and I may not, but plenty of people do, and there is nothing wrong with that. Their sales on that model increased, in part based on those ads, putting a scare into the the Scion branded cars of the same class. If you see the commercial, it is CLEARLY selling the concept of being different. Look it up, it's not hard to find. If the goal of a company in a market -based society is make a profit, only people who frequent sites like these will quibble about how they earn their coin.

    ("But they are not an upscale product like our phone" - whatever).

    If Palm could have scratched out enough of a profit to grow capital, they would still be independent.

    6) If Palm is mired between 1% - 3%, and an alternate approach can possibly gather them 10% to 15% they would be fools not to exploit it. And before you respond with "not with the same hardware", I totally agree. There can be no effective advertising without new hardware, but there can be no success without new advertising.
    Last edited by C-Note; 12/23/2010 at 06:22 PM.
  2. #62  
    a couple million nerds and hipsters wanting geek cred to "be different" is like people trying to run linux on there desktop. Not a way to make a dent in consumer market share. honestly look at kia's cars. they aren't exactly different looking from toyota and hondas. they are copying them. they are trying to be just like them. they aren't all models in odd shapes like scions. they are all pretty much hatchbacks and sedans. Like the optima and the forte? they are just plain sedans. point is they are trying to differentiate themselves but they arent' saying we are nothing like the other guys. we want 5 wheels, and be shaped like a banana, and run on cow crap, cause nobody will buy it. they are more mainstream then you think. Just like HP needs to be. As long as Palm makes phones for just the people wanting to be different they'll keep having no marketshare and few profits. If they appeal to that they'll continue to have nobody buying their products.

    and back on the subject. windows app count is at 4870.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    a couple million nerds and hipsters wanting geek cred to "be different" is like people trying to run linux on there desktop...


    As long as Palm makes phones for just the people wanting to be different they'll keep having no marketshare and few profits. If they appeal to that they'll continue to have nobody buying their products.

    and back on the subject. windows app count is at 4870.
    Lost track of this thread, sorry,

    You are really stuck on the whole nerd and geek thing. Didn't fill the space with your entire response because it was mostly superfluous. You still confuse marketing with sales and production. Funny you say the above since all the best phones actually run Linux based OS anyway

    (And if 'nobody' is buying their phones now, what do they have to lose?)

    Palm is NOT making phones to be different, so far they have earned themselves a bad reputation for making phones with crappy hardware, THAT is why they are not selling, it has nothing to do with geeks or nerds or Linux or being different.

    But assuming they are going to learn from that mistake and produce a solid next model, how exactly are they supposed to market themselves. Most of the phones are only minimally different anyway. People here debate over 1/2 an inch of screen space or a dedicated app vs. a web site. How big a difference is there between in the Droid X and the Incredible? And how much of it is just marketing?

    Do you get it now?
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Lost track of this thread, sorry,

    You are really stuck on the whole nerd and geek thing. Didn't fill the space with your entire response because it was mostly superfluous. You still confuse marketing with sales and production. Funny you say the above since all the best phones actually run Linux based OS anyway

    (And if 'nobody' is buying their phones now, what do they have to lose?)

    Palm is NOT making phones to be different, so far they have earned themselves a bad reputation for making phones with crappy hardware, THAT is why they are not selling, it has nothing to do with geeks or nerds or Linux or being different.

    But assuming they are going to learn from that mistake and produce a solid next model, how exactly are they supposed to market themselves. Most of the phones are only minimally different anyway. People here debate over 1/2 an inch of screen space or a dedicated app vs. a web site. How big a difference is there between in the Droid X and the Incredible? And how much of it is just marketing?

    Do you get it now?
    Of course palm isn't. that's exactly my point. It's the geeks that want a phone to be different. The point is the geeks want it but Palm doesn't want that. Palm made the that phone already. It didn't sell. So the more they push Palm to make that type of "i'm not like the iphone or evo phone" the farther they get away from what HP needs to do to compete and the farther away from what sells.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    Of course palm isn't. that's exactly my point. It's the geeks that want a phone to be different. The point is the geeks want it but Palm doesn't want that. Palm made the that phone already. It didn't sell. So the more they push Palm to make that type of "i'm not like the iphone or evo phone" the farther they get away from what HP needs to do to compete and the farther away from what sells.
    But your point is wrong on a number of levels. EVERYONE want to be different, just in different ways - especially in western culture. It is what drive a consumer society where people buy stuff just because it is new or different... even if they don't really NEED what they buy. The only point of contention is what differences a person chooses to take pride in. (Usually unreasonably so)

    Also, Palm didn't make a geek phone nor did they intend to. It was designed more like a "tree-hugger' , back-to-nature type of product. Read the back story, if anything it was the anti -geek phone. Hence the "creepy-lady" and the "phone for Mom's" stuff that someone thought complimented their concept. (Riverstone, minimalist, none of that is "geek")

    I can guarantee you that if their approach is a "me too" campaign, it will go down in flames even worse that the two aforementioned efforts did.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by j_grouchy View Post
    yes...but how many of those are fart or soundboard apps.
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    For Android it is 141 fart and 1291 soundbaord apps out of 120,000.
    See this is the funny part.
    There's 200,000+ android apps now.

    That means "141 fart apps" is 0.0705% of the market.

    Even with the "1291 soundboard apps" that's .6455%.

    On Webos, with 5000 apps, there are 28 fart results.

    That's .5%

    "soundboard" results in 140 apps.

    That's 2.8% of apps.

    So I must ask, which platform is actually more plagued with "stupid apps"?
    Because it certainly seems like WebOS.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    See this is the funny part.
    There's 200,000+ android apps now.

    That means "141 fart apps" is 0.0705% of the market.

    Even with the "1291 soundboard apps" that's .6455%.

    On Webos, with 5000 apps, there are 28 fart results.

    That's .5%

    "soundboard" results in 140 apps.

    That's 2.8% of apps.

    So I must ask, which platform is actually more plagued with "stupid apps"?
    Because it certainly seems like WebOS.
    You couldn't be more wrong. Check out this post for context.
  8. #68  
    I'm missing how that article makes me wrong?
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I'm missing how that article makes me wrong?
    It clearly shows that a large percentage of the App Catalog is garbage.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    It clearly shows that a large percentage of the App Catalog is garbage.
    But isn't that exactly what I was saying?

    I was showing that, in those two specific examples, WebOS actually is plagued with a HIGHER PERCENTAGE of those two examples.

    Which is funny because people, much like j_grouchy, always point at Android.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    But isn't that exactly what I was saying?

    I was showing that, in those two specific examples, WebOS actually is plagued with a HIGHER PERCENTAGE of those two examples.

    Which is funny because people, much like j_grouchy, always point at Android.
    I must be drunk with too much New Year's punch. Since I don't drink, I must not have read your post correctly. Sorry.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I must be drunk with too much New Year's punch. Since I don't drink, I must not have read your post correctly. Sorry.
    It's a-okay :P
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