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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I'm going to use the same quote as I did before because you don't seem to realize the impact of what you are saying. If Palm has not put forth an effort in almost a year, that is their own fault. They started the fight. In hindsight, that was a stupid thing to do.

    Your last sentence is what I find most outrageous, though. You say we will be able to move from speculation to fact. WE ALREADY HAVE FACTS! You just don't happen to like them. So you want to wait until there is a more favorable set of facts.

    The Pre2 is a launch disaster RIGHT NOW! It is not old or irrelevant news. It is breaking news. HP is bungling the Palm heritage worse than Palm did. Will that change "in the coming months"? Perhaps. At that time, we can all evaluate things based on the new, present reality.

    OK class, time for a basic reading lesson....

    Look carefully at the sentence:

    "When they start competing in their new HP powered incarnation, we'll see."

    Does than say that they did not compete previously? It merely relates that fact that in the upcoming round, there are new factors at play. You seem to want to call the boxing match in the early rounds.

    There is no doubt that they got spanked in the early going, I don't have a problem saying that. But I still have a phone that I like and it still works well (but mine is a Verizon phone). But you seem to be stuck on what has happened, and not what is ahead. Maybe we should have ended the contest before the Android phones started to steal Apple's thunder.

    As they say in the brokerage commercials 'past results do not guarantee future success' ...or failure.

    Can you spell the Newton, or the Pippin, or what was that browser they trotted out before Safari which was a dog. Or the first rounds of Apple TV. Your memory is very selective. Did you forget about the Pepsi exec who ran Apple (into the ground)? Do you really think changes like that don't matter?

    Oh and lest you forget, there was a time the Apple faithful were griping because they felt Microsoft was freezing them out of product development, but they didn't have Facebook to vent with.

    There is no guarantee that HP will be successful, but they have a very good chance to do so. No, they blew their chance at the easy-pickings by coming out with poor hardware on the initial launch, but there is still room for them to grow, if they produce a solid product and are patient.

    Not everyone wants to carry an iPhone and be like everyone else.

    (Just curious - are you a Yankee and Lakers fan... when they are winning?)

    PS: The original Apple browser was Cyberdog I think, an appropriate name
    Last edited by C-Note; 12/21/2010 at 07:02 PM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    (Just curious - are you a Yankee and Lakers fan... when they are winning?)
    I am never a Yankee or Lakers fan under any circumstances. In basketball, it is all about the Celtics and the Trailblazers. To the devil with baseball.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I am never a Yankee or Lakers fan under any circumstances. In basketball, it is all about the Celtics and the Trailblazers. To the devil with baseball.
    At least we agree on the Blazers, since my hometown Green & Gold was stolen .
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Not everyone wants to carry an iPhone and be like everyone else.
    Wow. Do you guys really consider your cellphone to be a fashion accessory or a visible personal statement of some sort?

    Why not just use the phone that you want without worrying about how many other people are doing the same thing?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiddlekins View Post
    Wow. Do you guys really consider your cellphone to be a fashion accessory or a visible personal statement of some sort?

    Why not just use the phone that you want without worrying about how many other people are doing the same thing?
    Not at all. But if your job is marketing... and Palm desperately needs creative marketing, it is certainly a marketing strategy which should be tested.

    Talk to any 20 something, there is a significant segment which believes that they are all "indie" and outside of the pop culture... and gravitate away from anything that reeks of pop.

    The discussion was around the success and failure of webOS sales efforts and that was the basis of the comment.

    If I cared about what other people think about my phone, do you think I'd be HERE ?
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I am never a Yankee or Lakers fan under any circumstances. In basketball, it is all about the Celtics and the Trailblazers. To the devil with baseball.
    A Celtics fan. I knew there was a reason I liked you.

    (although my other team is the Clippers...so you'd think I'd be more sympathetic towards HP...)
  7. JLegacy's Avatar
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    #47  
    Microsoft: over 1.5 million Windows Phone 7 devices sold to carriers and retailers -- Engadget

    Disappointing sales figures IMHO. Personally, I was hoping it would do well. The more competition the merrier.
    Peace, Freedom, Prosperity.

    If you have a complaint/request relating to webOS please use the Feedback & Feature Requests Form at the official site.
  8. FDP
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    #48  
    Microsoft has absolutely no idea how to make phone operating systems. I've been an unfortunate victim of their damn mobile OS since Windows mobile 5, and have used it through 6.5 with every incremental upgrade along the way (on different devices). The company has absolutely no clue how to make a decent UI, or keep their OS from freezing every time you do anything involving any radio (wifi, bluetooth, etc).

    People will buy Windows phone 7, some people may even like it (the Zune crowd). It don't think it will put Microsoft back in the competition with iOS and Android. I can't see business users wanting the interface (I'd be embarrassed to use it in front of clients), and I always figured that the core of their mobile market was business.

    As far as webOS goes, I think HP has definitely bungled. They've easily lost tens of thousands of new users this holiday season, and while those numbers wouldn't matter at all for dominant OS's like Android (100,000 new users a month?) and iOS, Palm needs to get their product out on the street and recognized. Steve Jobs & Verizon will completely drown out any announcement that HP tries to make at CES, and if Verizon announces upcoming iPhone availability, a great deal of users will hold out for the iPhone release, meaning that Palm phones will have an even harder time selling.

    This is either a monumental miscalculation on the part of HP, or they have some genius plan that will blow everyone's socks off...
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by FDP View Post
    Microsoft has absolutely no idea how to make phone operating systems. I've been an unfortunate victim of their damn mobile OS since Windows mobile 5, and have used it through 6.5 with every incremental upgrade along the way (on different devices). The company has absolutely no clue how to make a decent UI, or keep their OS from freezing every time you do anything involving any radio (wifi, bluetooth, etc).

    People will buy Windows phone 7, some people may even like it (the Zune crowd). It don't think it will put Microsoft back in the competition with iOS and Android. I can't see business users wanting the interface (I'd be embarrassed to use it in front of clients), and I always figured that the core of their mobile market was business.

    As far as webOS goes, I think HP has definitely bungled. They've easily lost tens of thousands of new users this holiday season, and while those numbers wouldn't matter at all for dominant OS's like Android (100,000 new users a month?) and iOS, Palm needs to get their product out on the street and recognized. Steve Jobs & Verizon will completely drown out any announcement that HP tries to make at CES, and if Verizon announces upcoming iPhone availability, a great deal of users will hold out for the iPhone release, meaning that Palm phones will have an even harder time selling.

    This is either a monumental miscalculation on the part of HP, or they have some genius plan that will blow everyone's socks off...
    What does Windows Mobile 6.5 have ANYTHING to do with Windows Phone 7.

    Why do people still bring that aging old OS into discussions. Microsoft moved off it to Windows Phone 7 which doesn't have any of the issues you listed above.

    Why would you be embarrassed to use the phone in front of clients? Seriously?
  10. sjaakb's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Interesting stats, and not surprising given the time since Palm launched the Plus phones in January.

    However, I wonder where they get their app counts? Of course, the general trend is correct, but I believe that webOS has almost 6,000 apps plus over 500 homebrew apps.

    Official App Catalog App Gallery | PreCentral.net

    Also interesting is that the webOS trends are flat on searching, rather than declining. I guess that means that most who haven't already left are hanging on for CES. And the news graph has webOS showing virtually the same numbers as WP7, which indicates that webOS is getting a lot of exposure in any discussion of WP7. That's a good thing, because MS is spending hundreds of millions of dollars$ on promotion and webOS looks to be getting a benefit from that.

    As the OP says, CES absolutely CAN NOT come soon enough!
    CES? I assume that is held "sometime in the coming months"?.........

    I have it on good authority that hPalm will introduce a new model; Code name ALSORAN
  11. #51  
    Microsoft did have a bit of an awkward launch, but it seems that they are on the right path. There are always things you can do better when all you are doing is looking in the rearview mirror. Hopefully, HP/Palm will adapt. That is all you can hope for.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by FDP View Post
    Microsoft has absolutely no idea how to make phone operating systems. I've been an unfortunate victim of their damn mobile OS since Windows mobile 5, and have used it through 6.5 with every incremental upgrade along the way (on different devices). The company has absolutely no clue how to make a decent UI, or keep their OS from freezing every time you do anything involving any radio (wifi, bluetooth, etc).
    If you replace the Windows mobile related version with PalmOS, some may argue that the same was true for Palm, yet webOS has been embraced by many on this site.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiddlekins View Post
    Wow. Do you guys really consider your cellphone to be a fashion accessory or a visible personal statement of some sort?

    Why not just use the phone that you want without worrying about how many other people are doing the same thing?
    yep tons of people on these boards do. They are trying "be different". Many people like to call other phone users names. "They are all sheep" or whatever they say. for many they use their phone purchase to say they are not like everyone else. Like the girl that wears all black in school or something. i'm with you. use what you want and stick the phone in your pocket.

    If someone wants a phone that's not like what everyone else has they can't be mad if it gets not apps no support, carriers don't support it, and it has poor sales. That's what happens to phones that nobody has. All that stuff comes when lots of people have the phone. And i'm quite sure HP wants everyone to have the phone.
  14. FDP
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    #54  
    What does Windows Mobile 6.5 have ANYTHING to do with Windows Phone 7.

    Why do people still bring that aging old OS into discussions. Microsoft moved off it to Windows Phone 7 which doesn't have any of the issues you listed above.

    Why would you be embarrassed to use the phone in front of clients? Seriously?
    Windows Mobile 6.5 has plenty to do with Windows Phone 7. Sure they did an "OS" rewrite, but as with any Microsoft product the fundamental philosophy doesn't change. Their products vary widely in quality, but the mentality is the same: watch the market, react to the market, get a product out quickly. I won't say that they've never thought ahead (.NET and C# are really excellent and forward thinking) but particularly in the area of user interface, they have always either lacked attention to detail or refused to get behind internal projects that were too radical.

    On the performance end, Windows 7 still stutters quite a bit, particularly during navigation, I haven't used it long enough to know if it freezes when radios turn on/off or go to sleep, instead I just decided to part ways with Microsoft.

    As far as being embarrassed about using the phone in front of clients, I think they've overshot "simple" and landed in "dumb". I feel condescended to when I use the Windows Phone 7 UI. One reviewer described it as "big colorful blocks... big text", and I think that sums it up. The color scheme is juvenile, uncoordinated, and overly simplistic, and like many of their products they've mixed user interface types without thinking about the consequences. The app list scrolls, the front-page is a sort of pseudo-zui/widget arrangement, and the music player is a side-scrolling copy of windows media center. Not only is there is discontinuity in feel/interaction in each of these sections, the look itself changes radically as well. The irony of course is that they've distilled their design philosophy into this "hub" concept, which when you hear them explain it makes the design sound incredibly unified.

    I'm no fan of Apple's "candy button" philosophy, but Microsoft just can't get away with having a complete lack of design sense on small-screen devices. With limited screen space, user interface is more important then it ever was before. Apple understood this with iOS, and webOS definitely understands it...
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by FDP View Post
    I'm no fan of Apple's "candy button" philosophy, but Microsoft just can't get away with having a complete lack of design sense on small-screen devices. With limited screen space, user interface is more important then it ever was before. Apple understood this with iOS, and webOS definitely understands it...
    Have you actually used Windows Phone 7? Metro addresses the screen real estate issue.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    yep tons of people on these boards do. They are trying "be different". Many people like to call other phone users names. "They are all sheep" or whatever they say. for many they use their phone purchase to say they are not like everyone else. Like the girl that wears all black in school or something. i'm with you. use what you want and stick the phone in your pocket.
    Tons of people everywhere do. That should not surprise you, it is the second most common advertising gambit after "everyone is doing it, you should too"

    Of course the company selling the product wants to sell as much as they can, but the sales approach (unless you are #1) is to appeal to the strong American love of individuality. Don't confuse the marketing goals with the sales goals.

    So when Apple advises prospective customers to "Think Different" what are they trying to do? Appeal to the desire of people to not be like the herd. They don't advertise the iPhone this way. Remember the "1984" commercial, when you are not number one you turn your position as a source of value.

    When the Kia car company advertises their new Soul with the hip-hop hamsters, they use the underdogs tool "you can be like the masses or be different" and it's been working for them.

    "Join the Pepsi Generation, "We Try Harder" I could list hundreds of these examples. As I'm sure HP is not foolish enough to do, don't confuse the zealots on a fan site as representative of the issues around sales and marketing.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by FDP View Post
    Windows Mobile 6.5 has plenty to do with Windows Phone 7. Sure they did an "OS" rewrite, but as with any Microsoft product the fundamental philosophy doesn't change. Their products vary widely in quality, but the mentality is the same: watch the market, react to the market, get a product out quickly. I won't say that they've never thought ahead (.NET and C# are really excellent and forward thinking) but particularly in the area of user interface, they have always either lacked attention to detail or refused to get behind internal projects that were too radical.

    On the performance end, Windows 7 still stutters quite a bit, particularly during navigation, I haven't used it long enough to know if it freezes when radios turn on/off or go to sleep, instead I just decided to part ways with Microsoft.

    As far as being embarrassed about using the phone in front of clients, I think they've overshot "simple" and landed in "dumb". I feel condescended to when I use the Windows Phone 7 UI. One reviewer described it as "big colorful blocks... big text", and I think that sums it up. The color scheme is juvenile, uncoordinated, and overly simplistic, and like many of their products they've mixed user interface types without thinking about the consequences. The app list scrolls, the front-page is a sort of pseudo-zui/widget arrangement, and the music player is a side-scrolling copy of windows media center. Not only is there is discontinuity in feel/interaction in each of these sections, the look itself changes radically as well. The irony of course is that they've distilled their design philosophy into this "hub" concept, which when you hear them explain it makes the design sound incredibly unified.

    I'm no fan of Apple's "candy button" philosophy, but Microsoft just can't get away with having a complete lack of design sense on small-screen devices. With limited screen space, user interface is more important then it ever was before. Apple understood this with iOS, and webOS definitely understands it...
    I stopped reading here. Windows phone 7 is right up next to iOS in smoothness.


    EDIT: welll like a dumb dumb i kept reading. Color scheme is juvenile? Its your color selection on a black or white back ground. Side scrolling copy of WMP? WHAT? Have you used Windows Phone 7 or Zune or Zune desktop client or Xbox360?


    lol wut?
  18. #58  
    Note:

    In no way do i think Windows Phone 7 is perfect. However, i like that MS didn't just go boring grid of icons and did something new and fresh. Some will like it, some won't...much with anything.

    But one thing they DID excel on was UI responsiveness. If you think Windows Phone 7 stutters...what do you think WebOS does?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Tons of people everywhere do. That should not surprise you, it is the second most common advertising gambit after "everyone is doing it, you should too"

    Of course the company selling the product wants to sell as much as they can, but the sales approach (unless you are #1) is to appeal to the strong American love of individuality. Don't confuse the marketing goals with the sales goals.

    So when Apple advises prospective customers to "Think Different" what are they trying to do? Appeal to the desire of people to not be like the herd. They don't advertise the iPhone this way. Remember the "1984" commercial, when you are not number one you turn your position as a source of value.

    When the Kia car company advertises their new Soul with the hip-hop hamsters, they use the underdogs tool "you can be like the masses or be different" and it's been working for them.

    "Join the Pepsi Generation, "We Try Harder" I could list hundreds of these examples. As I'm sure HP is not foolish enough to do, don't confuse the zealots on a fan site as representative of the issues around sales and marketing.
    don't confuse you're goal to not be like everyone else with Palm's or HPs goal to sell a phone that everyone wants. You've done nothing but prove my point. All the palm zealots are off base with the don't be like the other guy stuff. Palm, HP and everyone else needs to do exactly what the other guy does well. They aren't trying to make a geek phone. They are trying to make an everybody phone. They are trying to make grab the sheep. Join the Pepsi generation isn't saying, don't be like everyone else it's saying be part of us Be part of this big group of people. And there's a difference. They aren't saying we're too cool for school like the people that want their phone as some sort of geek cred, we're different and superior, statement.

    Hip-Hop hamsters? Great. Hip-Hop is the biggest selling music genre on the planet. It's an appeal to the masses not the few. But i've never heard a rap song with a Kia. My friends don't drive Kias. A couple have 7 series BMWs though.

    Think different still had apple lagging behind windows. And they dropped that for the slogan "Switch". People can have their phone to be different but bottom line is to be successful Palm has to be a lot more like the other guys.
  20. FDP
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    #60  
    In no way do i think Windows Phone 7 is perfect. However, i like that MS didn't just go boring grid of icons and did something new and fresh. Some will like it, some won't...much with anything.

    But one thing they DID excel on was UI responsiveness. If you think Windows Phone 7 stutters...what do you think WebOS does?
    I'm not really behind any particular phone OS. I don't like Windows Phone 7, and I hate the iPhone, but I also don't believe that webOS or Android are perfect. UI navigation stutter/random freezing is one of the most annoying aspects of almost all smartphones on the market at this time. Android devices have major problems with it, and I'm sure webOS devices do as well (however the least amount of time I have spent with any OS is with webOS ~15 minutes).

    My experience with Windows 7 Phone was that there is some lag in the navigation, and when I played with it I came away distinctly unimpressed. I think we will definitely have to agree to disagree about the UI, but I will agree with you that I'm glad they didn't just try to copy the iPhone.

    I was not a Zune fan, and I really tried to give Windows Mobile 5-6.5 a chance... my analysis is that Microsoft blew it, and what they came out with in Phone 7 is not a compelling challenger to the Android/iOS dominated market. I think that webOS does have the potential to compete against those OS's. I would love to see Microsoft come out with something better, at the very least to have more competition in the field of smartphones.

    If you look at some of Microsoft's acquisitions, such as SeaDragon, they have the technology and experience to come out with a revolutionary product. Their corporate philosophy gets in the way, and I think that they will end up left behind by companies that are more willing to embrace change.
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