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  1. cgk
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       #41  
    I'm aware of their enterprise activities (and indeed have dealt with them in enterprises activities) but I'm not sure it's germane to our discussion of consumer electronics.

    Maybe you are right, maybe HP will able to able to put out premium devices and people will buy *that* smartphone simply because it says HP on the front and that inself provides the added value - I just can't see it.

    As an aside, I think the name Palm is a dead-weight and going forward it's going in the dustbin.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I'm aware of their enterprise activities (and indeed have dealt with them in enterprises activities) but I'm not sure it's germane to our discussion of consumer electronics.

    Maybe you are right, maybe HP will able to able to put out premium devices and people will buy *that* smartphone simply because it says HP on the front and that inself provides the added value - I just can't see it.

    As an aside, I think the name Palm is a dead-weight and going forward it's going in the dustbin.
    I'm not sure I agree on any of the above points.

    • Consumer Electronics - I've never been able to track down actual profit figures, but I strongly suspect that RIM makes more money off licensing BES than they do off selling BB's. I suspect there is more room for growth for secure, easy to use, secure, inexpensive, and secure mobile devices in the corporate world than the room for growth in consumer electronics (did I mention the security aspect?). As more and more devices enter the corporate world, there will be more and more demand that they be secure, centrally maintained, and also serve as the user's personal use phone. Nobody, including RIM, has successfully addressed that last part. RIM is the only company (so far) that has adequately addressed the security and centrally maintained aspect. That's their selling point. That could be Palm/HP's, if they do it right.
    • Brand Names - I think the Palm name is still salvagable. The went over a decade defining smart phones. A couple of high - quality releases could bring that back. Piggy-backing both names could do just that. At the same time, I have to agree, "HP" by itself probably won't do much for folks, besides inspire confidence that the device(s) will be around a while and supported.
  3. #43  
    The Army has also used Macs in its IT infrastructure to deter potential hacking attempts, and in 2009 implemented Apple hardware for video surveillance installations. The Mac hardware was selected, officials said, for security purposes.
    Now that is a scary thought. It's like hiding your house keys on the top of the door frame because you think people will try looking for them in harder to find places...
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    If you think HP doesn't have brand equity, it's because you are limited in your exposure to them. In certain arenas, they definitely have brand equity.

    If you're thinking intel based servers, high end printers; yes, they have brand equity. If you're thinking home computers, home-office printers and scanners, not so much.

    What they're doing with Palm is totally new to them. We don't know which way they plan on going, but don't write off "brand name" with HP so quickly. Your experience is not universal.
    well according to interbrand (which ranks globaly which companies are ranked) funny thing is they show HP branded at 11th, and Apple at 17th. So as you can see Hp has a stronger, more profitable brand then Apple worldwide. Infact Google is #4 on the list, and with microsoft still #3 they still hold on as the number one operating system on the market by brand.

    Best Global Brands Ranking for 2010
    Last edited by wellwellwell11; 12/14/2010 at 02:44 PM.
  5. cgk
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       #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm not sure I agree on any of the above points.

    • Consumer Electronics - I've never been able to track down actual profit figures, but I strongly suspect that RIM makes more money off licensing BES than they do off selling BB's. I suspect there is more room for growth for secure, easy to use, secure, inexpensive, and secure mobile devices in the corporate world than the room for growth in consumer electronics (did I mention the security aspect?). As more and more devices enter the corporate world, there will be more and more demand that they be secure, centrally maintained, and also serve as the user's personal use phone. Nobody, including RIM, has successfully addressed that last part. RIM is the only company (so far) that has adequately addressed the security and centrally maintained aspect. That's their selling point. That could be Palm/HP's, if they do it right.
    • That's an excellent point and you could be right, that could be a key factor - one of the biggest problems corps are facing is users making use of their own phones on networks with the security implications that has.


    • Brand Names - I think the Palm name is still salvagable. The went over a decade defining smart phones. A couple of high - quality releases could bring that back. Piggy-backing both names could do just that. At the same time, I have to agree, "HP" by itself probably won't do much for folks, besides inspire confidence that the device(s) will be around a while and supported.
    But... their rep has been in the toilet for 4 or 5 years? HP might be simply better off creating an entirely new brand, hell maybe HPWebOS (or a version of) will be the brand name going forward?

    Alternatively, maybe they will keep the Palm name for the US where the name still seems to have some value.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm not sure I agree on any of the above points.

    • Consumer Electronics - I've never been able to track down actual profit figures, but I strongly suspect that RIM makes more money off licensing BES than they do off selling BB's. I suspect there is more room for growth for secure, easy to use, secure, inexpensive, and secure mobile devices in the corporate world than the room for growth in consumer electronics (did I mention the security aspect?). As more and more devices enter the corporate world, there will be more and more demand that they be secure, centrally maintained, and also serve as the user's personal use phone. Nobody, including RIM, has successfully addressed that last part. RIM is the only company (so far) that has adequately addressed the security and centrally maintained aspect. That's their selling point. That could be Palm/HP's, if they do it right.
    • Brand Names - I think the Palm name is still salvagable. The went over a decade defining smart phones. A couple of high - quality releases could bring that back. Piggy-backing both names could do just that. At the same time, I have to agree, "HP" by itself probably won't do much for folks, besides inspire confidence that the device(s) will be around a while and supported.

    yeah I think it would be wise even to have Palm mentioned in new smartphone, and tablet products. It would bring the brand up very fast. Just look at the brand name list over the last few years. In 05 alone Apple brand name world wide was ranked at 43, and in 5 years up to 17. and google was non existence in 05 brand wise.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    That's an excellent point and you could be right, that could be a key factor - one of the biggest problems corps are facing is users making use of their own phones on networks with the security implications that has.
    And if you read the actual source blog on the current front page of this forum (P|C didn't quote this part), Ruby said
    But we’re significantly accelerating our enterprise capabilities so we can utilize HP’s huge sales channel in the enterprise
    .

    I think we're going to see some very interesting things come from HP in this regard. I'm not expecting, but certainly am hoping for something similar to BES from them. That, I believe, would give them an edge, and would be the first real competition for RIM (sorry Windows fans, EAS just ain't there yet).

    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But... their rep has been in the toilet for 4 or 5 years? HP might be simply better off creating an entirely new brand, hell maybe HPWebOS (or a version of) will be the brand name going forward?

    Alternatively, maybe they will keep the Palm name for the US where the name still seems to have some value.
    I think 4 or 5 years may be a little longer than reality, certainly the downhill slide started about that time (even the Centro sold reasonably well). I see about a 33/33/33 split between keeping Palm, going to "HP", or merging the two into something else (or even making something else entirely).

    I still see some people call their Android devices "my Palm Pilot".
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    How can webOS tout itself as a security-oriented platform when users routinely root their devices and homebrew developers are able to tweak and hack just about anything they want to including modifying the stock apps and any other apps that reside on the device? Saying webOS is has better security is like saying that the Pre is the prefect mommy phone - it's driven by a perceived market niche and not by features.
    Did you even read my post in its entirety? I not only didn't say anything similar to "WebOS is has (sic) better security" I said just the opposite - "RIM is the only company (so far) that has adequately addressed the security and centrally maintained aspect." Little quick to jump on the bashing bandwagon there, huh bub?

    We were talking about possible enterprise solutions. By the way, give me a Pre for about 25 minutes, and I can set it up so it can't be rooted, and I'm no programmer or designer. The devices can be made secure (you'd have to redoctor it to break that). That would only be one step, but it would be one of the easier steps. By the same token, BlackBerries aren't very secure until BES starts messing with their little silicone minds.
  9. #49  
    well from a webos perspective what's clear from every chart on there that after an initial spike the amount of webos phones on Verizon plummeted to a small percentage of their phones.
  10. cgk
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       #50  
    Going back to my shiny new ZTE Blade (or Orange San Francisco as it is sold here) for a minute - that's a good example of where the race to the bottom is occurring - ZTE have just announced that on the back of the success of this phone and a couple of others, they now hold 8% of the UK smart-phone market. I guess we will see a lot more of the bottom feeders coming into the market now and even more acceleration in the number and life-cycle of android handsets.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    well from a webos perspective what's clear from every chart on there that after an initial spike the amount of webos phones on Verizon plummeted to a small percentage of their phones.
    yup, and im surprised it spiked at all, considering how bad they help market those devices. Though of course anyone in the United stateds (not UK, or europe) has different views on what a smartphone should look like and feel, so hopefully HP can flex their brand muscles and cater the market, atleast in the US.
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