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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    That would be a flagship Android phone right? Because there are gimped Android cameras too Samsung Intercept depending on your phone. Though it did have auto-focus and I read Palm still does not. That can't be true, is it? The Pre 2 could easily compete against those types of phones, but no US carriers still.

    That said, I'm still looking toward CES for a good 2.2 or Gingerbread phone. I want to go back to the Intercept because of the OS(guess I'd have to stick with K-9 for email), but the hardware specs are not that great. Except the keyboard, that was solid IMO. I'd take an Optimus for now, if I could get one. And I think there's a rumor of the Evo 2 coming out next year. I think it will be called the Evo HD though.

    Rogers has finally released the Pre 2, so we have one NA carrier. But still no homefront carriers. Yeah, Palm is still selling the unlocked but not everyone wants AT&T or to pay $450. Plus for $450, there's the non-contract Evo, right? I could also get a Galaxy S.
    as far as i know these are the stock android features. Some i think are skinned the lg ones but i think they are available on the unaltered android OS. the "froyo" ones i think are all the stock android as well but i could be wrong.

    now i'd guess differences in features may be dependent on hardware. like you obviously can't select 720p if your camera can't. But i think stuff like iso, and video quality and white balance are all standard to android. I saw them on the EVO. I don't know if it's "flagship". The ally surely isn't flagship. I'm thinking EVO, Epic when i think flagship. Either way that's the competition so it shouldn't matter. Palm must compete against it because that's where the bar is set. if they don't want to that's fine but then when a Palm has the same number of users as a low end phone people shouldn't be surprised when people say higher end phones, "flagships" as you put them are rated or considered better. And i've seen the same features on the EVO, Epic, G2 and incredible. I haven't seen too many other android phones recently and i think Macro is a brand new feature.

    But i only offer these as evidence that the other OS's clearly have features that webos doesn't. And i'm sure this is only one example. There are clearly similar deficiencies in the music player, email, calender, and i'm sure others.

    As for the Pre 2. to each his own. But it's not for me, honestly at any price. that shouldn't keep anyone else from having it or enjoying it if it works for them.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 12/20/2010 at 07:54 PM.
  2. #42  
    I didn't test the Intercept's camera well enough to notice camera features, since it had no flash. I used it for barcode scanning, lol. But I don't even think it has the hardware for all those features.

    Samsung Intercept full specs - Phone Arena

    The Ally is "low end" too, but actually has some decent specs(better than Intercept). I've been impressed with LG, they seem to know value.

    The Evo is definitely flagship, so I would not be surprised to see those features on the Evo. And probably the Galaxy S too.

    P.S. I went back and looked at the Intercept camera. It's a bit more basic than the one you listed, just like I suspected. Yours is likely the Evo or Epic 4G. But it does have sufficient features for well lit situations where you'd take simple photos. I just wish it had a flash.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 12/29/2010 at 01:12 PM. Reason: new info added.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #43  
    Thanks for the review. Based on this review and others, I too have given up on my Palm Pre.

    For me it was a few things.

    1. Unreliability of hardware. I'm on my third Pre. My son is on his 8th one. The power switch just failed on mine.

    2. Iffy GPS connections...often requiring reboot, with long 3 minute wait.

    3. General operating system annoyances. For some reason (maybe because it is powered on in my pocket since the power switch failed and buttons were pressed) it has been losing some contact info. For example, my brother is still in my list of contacts but his phone numbers are gone. It seems to be something happened to the synergy of combining his different contacts. I have not been able to restore these numbers...though they are still on Google.

    4. Lagginess and memory errors. I have to reboot it at least once a week to refresh it. Often it will give "too many card" errors when I only have one card open.

    5. Lack of software support. While the WebOS development community should be applauded...they've done wonderful things....there is still so many apps not available or not updated. For example, Epocrates recently announced they were no longer supporting WebOS.

    6. Lack of new hardware on Sprint. It seems by now the Pre plus should be available, but all they have any longer is the Pixi.

    I came very close to buying an Evo, $100, plus $240 over the contract, but then I saw the Optimus S and the good reviews it was getting.

    The Optimus has a slower processor (than the Pre), no keyboard and slightly smaller screen, so it is a bit of a step down from that standpoint. But, it has a "better" screen (brightness), better battery life, better camera (bar codes will really work now), more durable hardware (guessing but can't imagine it could be worse). It also has a newer operating system and promise of update to the next one, plus a vastly larger software market.

    I will definitely miss some aspects of the Pre. WebOS is really well integrated and multitasking is done better than anyone else.

    Perhaps I'll be back here in another year, if HP and Sprint decide to bless us with a new, more robust phone and operating system.
  4. #44  
    My mother now has an LG Optimus S. The hardware is nice, it really is. Sturdy, feels good, just heavy enough to matter but not a brick.

    My gripes with it are mostly minor, but adding them all up would cause me a frustrating experience.
    - There is no LED indicator at all. Not for charging, not for missed calls, not for text messaged.
    - No physical keyboard (although I realize there are Android alternatives with keyboards)
    - Has some volume issues, voice mail at max volume is way too quiet
    - microSD card has some bugs, keeps thinking its being ejected when its not
    - Microsoft exchange support is terrible in android, it takes 4 clicks to do the same things that take 1 click to do in gmail.
    - Overall I just cringe at the android UI

    So I am sticking with my trusty Palm Pixi until the HTC 7 Pro comes out or something better is on the horizon.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by onemadrssn View Post
    My mother now has an LG Optimus S. The hardware is nice, it really is. Sturdy, feels good, just heavy enough to matter but not a brick.

    My gripes with it are mostly minor, but adding them all up would cause me a frustrating experience.
    - There is no LED indicator at all. Not for charging, not for missed calls, not for text messaged.
    - No physical keyboard (although I realize there are Android alternatives with keyboards)
    - Has some volume issues, voice mail at max volume is way too quiet
    - microSD card has some bugs, keeps thinking its being ejected when its not
    - Microsoft exchange support is terrible in android, it takes 4 clicks to do the same things that take 1 click to do in gmail.
    - Overall I just cringe at the android UI

    So I am sticking with my trusty Palm Pixi until the HTC 7 Pro comes out or something better is on the horizon.
    Based on your post, I'm guessing you wouldn't buy yourself an LG Optimus S. That's not a problem since every one of the issues you describe is easily overcome by other, better Android devices. Well except the cringing part - I think that just makes you better than the tens of millions of Android users in the community.
  6. #46  
    Is there a non-4G android phone on Sprint with a notification LED?
  7. #47  
    I read the Intercept has an LED notification but I wouldn't get it based on reviews and Samsung's spotty reputation. Sprint has a bunch of other Android phones...but the Optimus S is by far, the best 3G they carry (the others are much less powerful.)

    I wonder how many Pre owners remember how long it took to get an LED alert notification light for the Pre?

    Update:

    The Optimus arrived today. The screen is a bit bigger than the Pre's. It is thinner and a bit longer. I will miss the "flash" LED. I sometimes used the Pre's LED as a flashlight, and it would come real handy with magnifier apps for such things as reading menus in dimly lit restaurants. Of course the Pre doesn't even have a magnifier app and it probably wouldn't work with it's fixed focus camera anyway.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by onemadrssn View Post
    Is there a non-4G android phone on Sprint with a notification LED?
    I can't help you there. My only Androids are on Verizon right now - and the Moto Droids all have LEDs with SDK-accessible APIs so you can do things like vary the LED color/blink rate by received email account (for example I typically use Pink:Company, Purple: Gmail, Green: Yahoo, Blue: SMS, Red: Missed call). LED notification seems to be common on Androids.
  9. #49  
    Just bought my daughter optimus s yesterday. Wow that's a nice little device. In my opinion it is much better, more solid device then the pre. When I had pre,I tried getting her one several times but she kept saying she does not want one. Now she has not put optimus down in last 24 hours.

    Sent using taptalk.
  10. #50  
    The Intercept has no LED notification, so you have to use sound alerts. No choice. Maybe there's an app to turn the screen on, but that's likely your only option if you want silent alerts.

    The one I have now is much more stable than any others(the Intercept for me has been like others on the Pre, keep exchanging lol) and doesn't have the email problem anymore. Weird.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #51  
    First day with Optimus. Here is my fresh eyes vs. WebOS and Palm with keyboard.

    First the not so good.

    1. Despite some really neat features, like Swype, I still can't go as fast on the virtual keyboard as with a real keyboard...even a tiny one like on the Palm Pre. Swype is really neat (Google it) but can be very frustrating when it guesses wrong and doesn't allow you to type correct word or abbrev., which can slow you down enough to lose all the time you saved.

    2. Universal search is not up to the level of WebOS. For example, you can't just start typing a contact name and get a universal list of searches and then choose to call the contact. You have to be in the contact app...requiring a couple entries. This is true with all categories. For example, if you search from the home screen it defaults to a web Google search. I could blindly make calls with my Pre...having memorized the key positions...not so with Android.

    3. Android is behind WebOS and iOS with memory management...or at least the LG Optimus S is. It has 512Mb of internal memory for programs and an SD card that can support up to 32Gb. Unfortunately, all programs use some internal memory and some refuse to install anything on SD (like the old days of PalmOS.) This can run you out of memory fast (I ran out after about 30 program installs.) When you run out, nasty stuff happens because this memory is used for caching base programs...like the messaging app. When you run out of memory you can't receive text messages! Froyo lets programs install on SD, but programs have to be designed to use it, and many don't.

    4. Contacts are a bit scary how they synch both ways. Somehow, during the swap (from WebOS to Android) I deleted a contact...I suspect more than one.6. Contacts are a bit scary how they synch both ways. Somehow, during the swap (from WebOS to Android) I deleted a contact...I suspect more than one. There is nothing quite as neat as synergy...but then synergy has it's own headaches.

    Then the very good.

    5. Android 2.2 (Froyo) is definitely more optimized than WebOS. Everything is snappier on the Optimus's slower 600Mhz processor, even when the memory is completely used up. Apps start faster, windows scroll more smoothly. Angry birds only lags when the free app gets ads...and then it is not enough to be annoying. The optimization also helps battery life. I played with this thing solid for hours and hours and finally drained it to 20% by 3am in the morning.

    6. Android's email works better. You can view it in landscape (without a hack) and Gmail and even Hotmail is more tightly integrated. I have not played with Exchange Server.

    7. It is hard to describe how liberating it is to have so many more app choices. People like to talk about how many cr_p ones there are, but there are still a way more good ones...and more polished ones, than on the WebOS. Angry Birds is a good example. I was able to download the regular version plus the holiday version which have way more levels than the one available on WebOS. There is a dyno app. The scanner search is very cool. I could go on and on.

    8. Voice recognition has so far worked pretty well. I need to play with it more to see how useful it will be and if it can make up, in part, for the lack of a keyboard and universal search.

    9. Very nice array of launchers for customization...though a bit confusing with all the choices and the different ways they work.
  12. #52  
    Try SwiftKey, there's a trial version before you buy. I went ahead and bought it, due to excellent word prediction. It seems to pay attention to how and what you write on an individual basis. And don't forget to enter words in your custom dictionary.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Disaster View Post
    First day with Optimus. Here is my fresh eyes vs. WebOS and Palm with keyboard.

    First the not so good.

    1. Despite some really neat features, like Swype, I still can't go as fast on the virtual keyboard as with a real keyboard...even a tiny one like on the Palm Pre. Swype is really neat (Google it) but can be very frustrating when it guesses wrong and doesn't allow you to type correct word or abbrev., which can slow you down enough to lose all the time you saved.

    2. Universal search is not up to the level of WebOS. For example, you can't just start typing a contact name and get a universal list of searches and then choose to call the contact. You have to be in the contact app...requiring a couple entries. This is true with all categories. For example, if you search from the home screen it defaults to a web Google search. I could blindly make calls with my Pre...having memorized the key positions...not so with Android.

    3. Android is behind WebOS and iOS with memory management...or at least the LG Optimus S is. It has 512Mb of internal memory for programs and an SD card that can support up to 32Gb. Unfortunately, all programs use some internal memory and some refuse to install anything on SD (like the old days of PalmOS.) This can run you out of memory fast (I ran out after about 30 program installs.) When you run out, nasty stuff happens because this memory is used for caching base programs...like the messaging app. When you run out of memory you can't receive text messages! Froyo lets programs install on SD, but programs have to be designed to use it, and many don't.

    4. Contacts are a bit scary how they synch both ways. Somehow, during the swap (from WebOS to Android) I deleted a contact...I suspect more than one.6. Contacts are a bit scary how they synch both ways. Somehow, during the swap (from WebOS to Android) I deleted a contact...I suspect more than one. There is nothing quite as neat as synergy...but then synergy has it's own headaches.

    Then the very good.

    5. Android 2.2 (Froyo) is definitely more optimized than WebOS. Everything is snappier on the Optimus's slower 600Mhz processor, even when the memory is completely used up. Apps start faster, windows scroll more smoothly. Angry birds only lags when the free app gets ads...and then it is not enough to be annoying. The optimization also helps battery life. I played with this thing solid for hours and hours and finally drained it to 20% by 3am in the morning.

    6. Android's email works better. You can view it in landscape (without a hack) and Gmail and even Hotmail is more tightly integrated. I have not played with Exchange Server.

    7. It is hard to describe how liberating it is to have so many more app choices. People like to talk about how many cr_p ones there are, but there are still a way more good ones...and more polished ones, than on the WebOS. Angry Birds is a good example. I was able to download the regular version plus the holiday version which have way more levels than the one available on WebOS. There is a dyno app. The scanner search is very cool. I could go on and on.

    8. Voice recognition has so far worked pretty well. I need to play with it more to see how useful it will be and if it can make up, in part, for the lack of a keyboard and universal search.

    9. Very nice array of launchers for customization...though a bit confusing with all the choices and the different ways they work.
    Universal Search is actaully more powerful. Be sure to go into the search settings and enable contact search:


    Its funny though, i turned off contact search and just use the People App and have it sitting on my home screen I much prefer the separate searches. But to be honest, i pretty much text/call a handful of people and they are on recent call list or SMS list.
  14. #54  
    Check out quick contact.icon is my front Page so I am never more then 2 quick screen taps away from calling or texting someone.

    Evo-lution
  15. irfan's Avatar
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    #55  
    Im very close to making this jump. Luckily I will have a chance to order it for my mom to use and then I can evaluate it before jumping ship. One note though:

    many people mention the Optimus 600mhz processor... its an asymmetrical dual core with 600 + 400mhz isnt it? From all reports, its a very very capable processor and faster than the droids. its the same one in the Pixi but actually being utilized for what its worth.

    Ive been an avid Pre fan, ive clocked to 1ghz, patches galore, and its quirks are still getting to me. The pdf issue mentioned, the camera lag, the lack of autofocus, power button is sticking, random reboots, random power drain... theyve all combined to start whats becoming a sour taste. Its a shame because all sprint/palm had to do was give me ONE updated phone in 20 months , but they couldnt do that.

    I went from the Hero to the Pre and it was night and day, the Pre blew it away. Then after a year I actually tried to go back to the Hero b/c of Pre issues (still had it in a drawer). A day later, back to the Pre b/c the Hero lag made me want to throw it into my Kuro... but im just not an avid Pre fan like i was last year.

    Im very demanding of phones apparently. I want them to do everything perfectly, and I know that doesnt exist. Im turned off by the Epic 4g b/c of the 10/mo price increase and the size of it. Evo because of the size and $10 as well. both of those phones have issues as well...

    no phone is perfect yet so the Optimus S may do the trick to hold me over for now. Only glaring problem is the lack of notification light and no flash on the camera --- in the end its just another stopgap for me.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by irfan View Post
    Im very close to making this jump. Luckily I will have a chance to order it for my mom to use and then I can evaluate it before jumping ship. One note though:

    many people mention the Optimus 600mhz processor... its an asymmetrical dual core with 600 + 400mhz isnt it? From all reports, its a very very capable processor and faster than the droids. its the same one in the Pixi but actually being utilized for what its worth.

    Ive been an avid Pre fan, ive clocked to 1ghz, patches galore, and its quirks are still getting to me. The pdf issue mentioned, the camera lag, the lack of autofocus, power button is sticking, random reboots, random power drain... theyve all combined to start whats becoming a sour taste. Its a shame because all sprint/palm had to do was give me ONE updated phone in 20 months , but they couldnt do that.

    I went from the Hero to the Pre and it was night and day, the Pre blew it away. Then after a year I actually tried to go back to the Hero b/c of Pre issues (still had it in a drawer). A day later, back to the Pre b/c the Hero lag made me want to throw it into my Kuro... but im just not an avid Pre fan like i was last year.

    Im very demanding of phones apparently. I want them to do everything perfectly, and I know that doesnt exist. Im turned off by the Epic 4g b/c of the 10/mo price increase and the size of it. Evo because of the size and $10 as well. both of those phones have issues as well...

    no phone is perfect yet so the Optimus S may do the trick to hold me over for now. Only glaring problem is the lack of notification light and no flash on the camera --- in the end its just another stopgap for me.
    You may want to check out the HTC Evo Shift as well:

    http://www.androidcentral.com/best-b...ift-4g-presale

    Its 4g so the fee might still be there, but its a 3.6" screen and rocking the new snapdragon processor.
  17. #57  
    10 day update:

    I'm at the point where I'm mostly comfortable with the Android operating system.

    My biggest continuing peeve is the lack of memory that limits how much software you can install. At about 10% remaining, it starts complaining and there are performance issues. I'm constantly having to decide whether I really will use something enough to keep it conveniently on the phone, or uninstall it, so I can try out something else. Occasionally, I will think I'm fine but then I get a low memory warning and am unable to do software updates without removing something.

    I miss the charging pad.

    Getting past those, and the lack of a hard keyboard, just about everything with the Optimus is better than the Pre.

    It is snappier than the Pre...much so.

    Voice commands are the bomb. I use voice to text for text messages all the time. Voice search is even better than having to snap open the keyboard and type letters....though it's universal search is still wanting compared to WebOS.

    There is much more software available.

    I used a Craig's list watcher to alert me when the laptop I was looking for was available locally.

    The focusing camera works great with apps that do product searches from UPC codes.

    The clock never mysteriously loses it's alarms, like happened occasionally on the Pre, and the speaker is nice and loud.

    The native Google apps, like Google Voice, work seamlessly.

    There is a KeePass app, now I can have my passwords on my desktop and my phone.
  18. #58  
    Apps2SD is your friend:
    App 2 SD Free (move app to SD) - Android app on AppBrain

    Its also built into Froyo for moving apps, but apps 2 sd is faster to use.


    Btw i LOVE the craigslist notifications. Very useful.

    Lastly, i'm a HUGE fan of the Gingerbread keyboard:
    http://rapidshare.com/files/435722501/signedkey.apk

    I don't THINK you need to be rooted.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Apps2SD is your friend:
    App 2 SD Free (move app to SD) - Android app on AppBrain

    Its also built into Froyo for moving apps, but apps 2 sd is faster to use.


    Btw i LOVE the craigslist notifications. Very useful.
    All moveable apps are already moved to the card. With 2.2, Apps2sd is superfluous (which means you don't want to install it because then it is just one more thing in the limited memory.)

    A majority of apps are not movable (without hacking.) Instead of being able to just install the best app, you need to decide on the best one with the smallest footprint, or that can be moved to the SD card. I've already replaced some really nice apps with less featured, smaller ones.

    The entire thing could have been avoided if Google hadn't sectioned off memory like they did. This isn't too dissimilar to the early WebOS release, but you'd have thought Google's much bigger team would have known better, or had the resources to address it earlier.
    Last edited by Disaster; 01/11/2011 at 04:12 PM.
  20. #60  
    I think another problem is low ROM phones. These low to mid range Androids have awful storage space. Many apps are getting larger and when you have limited space, it really sucks. And it would be nice if developers realized not everyone has the storage space that's on expensive phones and allowed SD card storage more often.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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