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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    yeah. hard to detect when it's typed. i figured but only after reading you say it outright in another post. But that was after i wrote my post. Sarcasm is tough to express on the net.



    i don't think you can compare the market now to when the iphone entered. there wasn't much competition then for smartphones. That's not the case now. Iphone was built on the massively successful ipod and itunes combination. HP has no gateway music player with such a loyal base of users using or similar software platform. Regardless i think it's quite simple, only 4% of that 70% are looking in Palms direction. It's going to take something Herculean to change that. You say look what iphone did. I'd say ok. Iphone was leaps and bounds better then the treos and the razors. Palm needs to be that much better then the iphones, EVOs, Epics, Windows phones. We'll see if they can.
    IMO, they don't need to stomp the other phones, just sell enough to remain relevant. Evo didn't stomp other phones, but made itself relevant. You now see many ads and posts in which if a Droid isn't featured(or sometimes alongside it), the Evo is, as a representative of top Android phones.

    Palm used to be able to make a name with the Treos, but got lazy while the market advanced.

    But the reason I mention the iPhone is because people who didn't consider smartphones before, perhaps because they were too boring for them, jumped on one version or another of the iPhone. Palm had said they wanted to do something similar, grab non-smartphone users. But they don't know how to appeal to mainstream, it seems.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Is that why the Slate and the android tablet/printer were such big successes?
    HP Slate 500 sees 'extraordinary demand,' experiences six-week shipping delay (update) -- Engadget

    Pretty good for the market they were going after.
    As for the printer, how long has that been out? True, I don't really get it, and I think it's a bit of overkill that won't attract many people, but it's a bit soon to call it a failure, isn't it?
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Is that why the Slate and the android tablet/printer were such big successes?
    AGAIN, these were PRE webOS units that were in the pipe. If you'd ever worked in development for a multinational company, you'd know that when you invest in future growth on a platform and then something better comes along, or the executive leadership changes the direction, you still have all those man hours and capital expenditures invested. Majority of companies will try to do SOMETHING with the product rather than scraping it.

    It's like the success ebay garnered off of peoples cast off items. Would you just throw your last gen computer, tv, dvd player away? OR try to sell it on ebay and recoup something? Same thing. Once a corporation begins the manufacturing process, those plants have minimums that they must produce to make the operation worth while. If HP orders an Android Tab\Printer, and the factory commits, then they HAVE product on hand that they have to do something with.

    As for the Slate, I believe I already told you HP killed off the Slate only to get the "Not so fast" from Microsoft who basically cornered them into keeping a contractual obligation which was likely less expensive to make than paying the fines\damages.

    Hewlett-Packard To Kill Windows 7 Tablet Project
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    As for the Slate, I believe I already told you HP killed off the Slate only to get the "Not so fast" from Microsoft who basically cornered them into keeping a contractual obligation which was likely less expensive to make than paying the fines\damages.
    Where did you get this information? The alleged killing of the slate was only rumor from a "source." I didn't hear anything about Microsoft "cornering" them or demanding that the slate be made? Do you have a link for this news? Would be pretty interesting if true.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Is it now? I guess that's why Steve Ballmer got onstage with this as the "flagship Win 7 slate" this year at CES and talked about how it'd be "perfect for reading, surfing the web and taking entertainment on the go".

    Because he envisioned launching this to Enterprise with four figure sales...you know...so a handful of execs could read and take their entertainment on the go.....
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Is it now? I guess that's why Steve Ballmer got onstage with this as the "flagship Win 7 slate" this year at CES and talked about how it'd be "perfect for reading, surfing the web and taking entertainment on the go".

    Because he envisioned launching this to Enterprise with four figure sales...you know...so a handful of execs could read and take their entertainment on the go.....
    Just sayin man. It's, uh, they...I mean 5000 units and demand for 9000? That's, like, almost double!
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    AGAIN, these were PRE webOS units that were in the pipe. If you'd ever worked in development for a multinational company, you'd know that when you invest in future growth on a platform and then something better comes along, or the executive leadership changes the direction, you still have all those man hours and capital expenditures invested. Majority of companies will try to do SOMETHING with the product rather than scraping it.
    And this is indicative of - in Shadavis' words - "They know what they are doing . Be assured they have people working and planning everything out" how?

    Essentially what you are saying is that WebOS is "pre-something else we can't envision them buying yet", just like these products were pre-WebOS. Not exactly a sure sign of "knowing what they are doing". The Palm Pre 2 is now the latest NOT-knowing what-they-are-doing product that has been released - kinda - by HP.

    It's like the success ebay garnered off of peoples cast off items. Would you just throw your last gen computer, tv, dvd player away? OR try to sell it on ebay and recoup something? Same thing. Once a corporation begins the manufacturing process, those plants have minimums that they must produce to make the operation worth while. If HP orders an Android Tab\Printer, and the factory commits, then they HAVE product on hand that they have to do something with.
    And there should have been a concrete, longterm plan for how to make that product work in retail before schematics made it any Chinese manufacturer. Clearly, there was none and they would've been better off just sticking with their proprietary TouchSmart OS and apps until they could integrate WebOS.

    As for the Slate, I believe I already told you HP killed off the Slate only to get the "Not so fast" from Microsoft who basically cornered them into keeping a contractual obligation which was likely less expensive to make than paying the fines\damages.

    Hewlett-Packard To Kill Windows 7 Tablet Project
    And that makes my point for me. Clearly, with that and the (non) launch of the Palm Pre 2, they "know what they are doing". Dude, they are an American company with their flagship phone...unavailable on a single American carrier. You could activate it on ATT or hack it to work elsewhere, but no American carrier has launched this phone that has been available for well over a month now.

    At least Nokia has the excuse that America means little to their margins, and they are a European company anyway. What's HP's excuse?
  8. #48  
    http://www.precentral.net/webos-gett...share-sinks-13

    WebOS/PalmOS bringing up the rear with 1.3% market share. Almost 3x as many Symbian users as WebOS/PalmOS??? Huh?? To say that HP/Palm has an uphill climb is a colossal understatement. Is there even any hope? With 21x as many iPhone users, 21x as many Blackberry, 17x as many Android and even 11x as many Windows Mobile, what can they really do? Android and Windows Mobile just released a ton of great new devices and HP/Palm can't even get their 1 little engine that could (the Pre2) sputtering out on Verizon. Really starting to p*ss me off that I bought into this technology and while they are getting utterly clobbered they refuse to get their latest device and OS out there. Heck, I drive a Saturn. Maybe I should make dead/dying brands my thing. Now excuse me while I go have a nice cold glass of New Coke.
  9. #49  
    are we sure palm os doesn't mean Palm os, and webos doesn't fall under linux?
  10. #50  
    This is NEWS??????

    BTW, I used to own a Saturn SC2 back in the day, fun car, but a little on the small side.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  11. #51  
    As bad as that may all sound, still, there are still about75 to80 percent of cell phone users not using smartphones in the u.s. Alone. Still much for the taking out there.

    Sent using taptalk.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    In other words 75 percent of mobile phone users aren't on a data plan yet. It sounds like you eventually expect everyone to sing up for $80 to $120 per month. Of the people that I know with mobile phones including family members and coworkers, I would imagine that 75% aren't looking to pay for a data plan anytime soon.
    Not just that. People throw that "untapped market" stat around as if that were some huge mass of users that were even somewhat likely to buy, but had yet to decide on which OS or device they were going with. It's just not the case.

    If the market expands significantly into that pool of non-smartphone users, it will expand roughly at the same percentages that we see now. The only exception to this rule is introducing a unknown entity (i.e. Apple) with a revolutionary product (i.e. iPhone) that changes the game and redefines the segment for non-smartphone users. But seeing as how WebOS is a known entity that is purposefully trying to play the same game as Android and iOS and is already well associated with free phones and unreliable hardware....it will be bound to the normal rules.
  13. #53  
    Dude many non smart phones have web capabilitys that need data plans. My daughter has a lg rumor, she needs data for that,a friend has a lotus, she needs data for that. Where have you been. Most new phones that are not smart phones need data plan to be fully functional.

    Sent using taptalk.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    IMO, they don't need to stomp the other phones, just sell enough to remain relevant. Evo didn't stomp other phones, but made itself relevant. You now see many ads and posts in which if a Droid isn't featured(or sometimes alongside it), the Evo is, as a representative of top Android phones.

    Palm used to be able to make a name with the Treos, but got lazy while the market advanced.

    But the reason I mention the iPhone is because people who didn't consider smartphones before, perhaps because they were too boring for them, jumped on one version or another of the iPhone. Palm had said they wanted to do something similar, grab non-smartphone users. But they don't know how to appeal to mainstream, it seems.
    I'm not sure they are the same. EVO is one of many HTC phones and they release many every year. Like 8 or so and they do it in many countries. Palm isn't in the same boat they have like two phones. EVO can tread on Android with has strong momentum and lots of users. EVO doesn't have to trounce anyone and no android phone does. They just have to pull their weight within HTC and be profitable. Palm's not in the same boat cause theres no body else making making webos phones to push the platform and keep it in people's mind, no momentum. Palm has to create buzz all by itself. EVO pretty much rode the buzz off of Motorola's Droid 1. I think to be relevant they need a huge splash with more then just fancy hardware. Cause right now, as Derek Kessler put it, "Palm's not even in the conversation."

    Yep they definetly don't know how to appeal to the mainstream. Funny that used to be Android's problem. But the sheer number of phones on the market kinda fixed that. But Palm has issues. Palm's just selling a phone where as Apple is selling mainstream focused consumer services, music, movies, social networking, everything you can do with a given app, navigation. Like i'm stunned that after the first webOS Palm's first idea was stacks and "just type". That's the selling point? That seems to me like something great for the die hard precentral palm lover and that will be kinda meh for the person that is more focused on the media centric, social networking, business aspect of a phone. Like stacks vs video chat? to me video chat wins hands down. Even if you don't use it. But it think they have a different approach. And for the record, i think RIM is struggling with this too. They have not been that media centric in their approach too. even if the functionality is their it hasn't been part of their message and they are starting to struggle.
  15. #55  
    RIM definitely needs to fix how they handle media. But the music player is pretty decent on the one I have. I'm not so sure about movies and streaming though. They need a high def screen version with a serious processor. The Storm was high def for a BB, but I'm guessing it was the processor that sucked so the phones were slow. They're still using low end processors on several BBs.

    RIM is starting to struggle because mainstream wants more than messaging and they don't see that. And they keep releasing the same model in a different package, like Palm did with Treos. Although that doesn't stop people around here. There are still lots of BB users around here.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Bingo! First, that chart is showing how many PalmOS (aka Garnett) users there are and 1.3% is a believable amount left considering there are still a LOT of Centro and Treo 7xx users out there. Same that their WinMo section is referencing 6.x and not 7

    it's Neilsen which are those people who call you at dinner and ask you 20 questions. There data is based on "personal response" and the percentage of people responding don't necessarily represent the actual market. (I know as their competition Arbitron was one of my clients) The ask, "What smartphone brands do you know about? Apple IOS, Android, RIM, etc." It's very subjective.

    As an example, the last time I took one of those calls (they tricked my call screener), the TV shows they were asking about I had not even heard of let alone watched.

    comScore Reports September 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc

    ComScores data comes from ACTUAL devices that are hitting their SERVERS so it is an much more PRECISE indicator. October's report is not out yet but Palm was at 4.2% in September and with the dwindling increase in users, is probably around 4.0-3.9% or so.
    OK, so you don't like Nielson, fine, want to give Gartner a try? They say just 1.5% for other oses (that is where Palm ends up).

    Gartner Says Worldwide Mobile Phone Sales Grew 35 Percent in Third Quarter 2010; Smartphone Sales Increased 96 Percent
  17.    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    are we sure palm os doesn't mean Palm os, and webos doesn't fall under linux?
    For the same reason that Android doesn't fall under Linux. It is based on a Linux kernel, but is a different OS.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    RIM definitely needs to fix how they handle media. But the music player is pretty decent on the one I have. I'm not so sure about movies and streaming though. They need a high def screen version with a serious processor. The Storm was high def for a BB, but I'm guessing it was the processor that sucked so the phones were slow. They're still using low end processors on several BBs.

    RIM is starting to struggle because mainstream wants more than messaging and they don't see that. And they keep releasing the same model in a different package, like Palm did with Treos. Although that doesn't stop people around here. There are still lots of BB users around here.
    You know what's funny is before i even finished reading your first sentence i was thinking about responding about a review of a new blackberry with the new OS version that made it a point to say it had a good music player.

    That said. i've never used it. Yeah i agree with your diagnosis. The other thing that helps RIM endure is they have good business relationships with companies just like windows did so they can sell lots of phones that way. And they can ride that like Microsoft did through a reboot. Additionally they can charge dirt cheap prices for the phones they are releasing so they can make money on sheer volume. That's great for people that just want a feature phone, want a slight bump at an affordable price without the complication of a smartphone (not that it's really complicated). But i think they are at a turning point. My brother was a blackberry guy and is crap with anything technical. I noticed his most recent face book post said "sent with HTC Sense." Even he has now moved from his blackberry to Android. And he was diehard blackberry.
  19. #59  
    Palm does fit nicely into the area of "user friendly", "good user experience", and a very tight and elegant operating system.

    A lot of surveys have shown that 'loyalty' smartphone users show towards their chosen device / operating system can vary a lot, but on average, iPhone users are very loyal to their device, but Blackberry and Android users tend to be a lot less loyal - more willing to look at alternatives, surely?

    WebOS could certainly appeal to both communities, don't you think?
    Australian Apple fan
    Wannabe webOS developer, Multimedia designer & UI designer

    I have some app ideas, but really need to get a better handle of how this jscript stuff works!
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    You know what's funny is before i even finished reading your first sentence i was thinking about responding about a review of a new blackberry with the new OS version that made it a point to say it had a good music player.

    That said. i've never used it. Yeah i agree with your diagnosis. The other thing that helps RIM endure is they have good business relationships with companies just like windows did so they can sell lots of phones that way. And they can ride that like Microsoft did through a reboot. Additionally they can charge dirt cheap prices for the phones they are releasing so they can make money on sheer volume. That's great for people that just want a feature phone, want a slight bump at an affordable price without the complication of a smartphone (not that it's really complicated). But i think they are at a turning point. My brother was a blackberry guy and is crap with anything technical. I noticed his most recent face book post said "sent with HTC Sense." Even he has now moved from his blackberry to Android. And he was diehard blackberry.
    Personally I prefer Android too. So much more versatile. The one problem I had was email, which I need. Both Androids I have did not have reliable email delivery. I had to manually pull a lot of my email myself. Even an old WM phone I had did better. And even a dumbphone I have signs me in to view new email on popular programs at least.

    What does your brother use, K9? That's the only thing I saw that might help with the email problem on Android. Blackberry, no problem there. Email on top of email, lol.

    Also Blackberry seems more secure, although an ancient OS. Though I believe I could live with a 6.0 device.

    I think I'm going to wait for a good Gingerbread phone and see if the email problem gets fixed. 2.1 and 2.2 are great for all other things though.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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