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  1. #21  
    I don't see how it's a flop they ordered 5K and sold out. Considering it's aimed toward enterprise users it's not a runaway hit but probably better than what HP expected. Now if it was made for the average conumer, then yes it probably would be a flop.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by bullonparade85 View Post
    I don't see how it's a flop
    Less than 10,000 humans want one. It's a flop, by any standard.
  3. #23  
    Maybe they just don't care about this one but, like some1 else said, had to put a few out so instead of making a lot and throwin a lot of weight behind it and riskin the launch of the palm pad along w/ their little ecosystem if yu would they made a few and said here yu go if yu want it, take it...just a thought...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums Beta
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by bullonparade85 View Post
    I don't see how it's a flop they ordered 5K and sold out. Considering it's aimed toward enterprise users it's not a runaway hit but probably better than what HP expected. Now if it was made for the average conumer, then yes it probably would be a flop.
    Given the amount HP spent on researching, designing, integrating the OS, testing, manufacturing, shipping, and advertising the device, they're probably losing money on a run of 5,000 devices. With the small margins devices like that carry, it typically requires a production run much larger to recoup those costs before getting into the black.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Given the amount HP spent on researching, designing, integrating the OS, testing, manufacturing, shipping, and advertising the device, they're probably losing money on a run of 5,000 devices. With the small margins devices like that carry, it typically requires a production run much larger to recoup those costs before getting into the black.
    hmmm didn't think about that.i wonder how much it actually cost to manufacture one tab?
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Given the amount HP spent on researching, designing, integrating the OS, testing, manufacturing, shipping, and advertising the device, they're probably losing money on a run of 5,000 devices. With the small margins devices like that carry, it typically requires a production run much larger to recoup those costs before getting into the black.
    Considering the final product, I don't think they lost that much on research, development, design, testing, tuning the OS, or anything else.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Given the amount HP spent on researching, designing, integrating the OS, testing, manufacturing, shipping, and advertising the device, they're probably losing money on a run of 5,000 devices. With the small margins devices like that carry, it typically requires a production run much larger to recoup those costs before getting into the black.
    they lost a bunch on this flop. Its not a Kin level of catastrophe, but many tens of millions of dollars were wasted nonetheless.

    Presumably this was a project greenlighted before the Palm acquisition -- and put into corporate purgatory thereafter. Most of the R&D and manufacturing prep investment had already been made on it prior to the acquisition, so finishing and shipping 5-10,000 units did not require much more money, and HP's new interim leaders apparently thought that there was value both for internal morale and learning something from the marketing of this device, to make the additional incremental expenditure worthwhile.

    This blunder adds to HP's overall impression of being a blind giant flailing about. Most rational folk would be wary of HP shepherding their career, their ideas, or their inventions into the future..
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8. #28  
    I don't expect HP to produce only 5,000 PalmPads. They bought Palm for webOS, they want a ROI on their $1B spent, and making only 5,000 PalmPads won't even put a drop in the bucket for that investment.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    I don't expect HP to produce only 5,000 PalmPads. They bought Palm for webOS, they want a ROI on their $1B spent, and making only 5,000 PalmPads won't even put a drop in the bucket for that investment.
    You say this as if you believe HP doesn't care about ROI on any other device they produce and bring to market. The bottom line is, this product release is simply bizarre. Does this raise your confidence in HP's ability to successfully market their 3rd tablet (PalmPad) device any better?

    Quote Originally Posted by bullonparade85
    hmmm didn't think about that.i wonder how much it actually cost to manufacture one tab?
    Hard to say without actual figures, but after feeding a development team for over 10 months (since just before the CES demo), spinning up a manufacturing plant, training the line workers, and paying them, I'd guess the first tablet off the line cost ~$10,000,000.00 (conservatively). After HP builds 9,000 of the devices, they will have amortized their R&D expenses down to ~$1,100 per unit. This figure still doesn't include cost for parts, manufacturing, shipping, and advertising for each unit (probably an additional $200-300 per). So HP will lose something in the neighborhood of $600/unit for a total loss of ~$5 million. I suspect my numbers are all low though - just trying to be conservative.

    But by any measure, this just a bizarre product release.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bullonparade85 View Post
    I don't see how it's a flop they ordered 5K and sold out. Considering it's aimed toward enterprise users it's not a runaway hit but probably better than what HP expected. Now if it was made for the average conumer, then yes it probably would be a flop.
    Gotta agree with bullonparade85 on this statement.

    This isn't a device aimed for consumers. You cannot compare this to the ipad.

    Keep in mind that when dealing with enterprise/businesses, it's a heck of a lot slower (ESPECIALLY given the economic conditions/uncertainty) to launch out products. Enterprises/business aren't like consumers who wait in line for the next best thing... I don't know how many businesses i know that still use windows xp. Compatibility, scale, costs, necessity, the time companies take to make a bloody decision.. all factor in.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    they lost a bunch on this flop. Its not a Kin level of catastrophe, but many tens of millions of dollars were wasted nonetheless.
    I wouldn't say the money for development was wasted. A lot of the research done will be used for their next tablet.
    I don't think this "bizarre release" will be anything like the one of the PalmPad. They practically dropped this device for it.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Monkey View Post
    I wouldn't say the money for development was wasted. A lot of the research done will be used for their next tablet.
    I don't think this "bizarre release" will be anything like the one of the PalmPad. They practically dropped this device for it.
    you may well be right -- perhaps deep in the bowels of HP, even now a wryly sophisticated ad campaign is being produced to promote the devastatingly advanced and user friendly webOS products HPalm has been stealthily fermenting for the better part of a year.

    Perhaps ...

    But as with M$, HP's history of blunder and failure means that they have lost the presumption of success, they cannot be presumed to know what they're doing when they introduce new products.

    Most will say show me -- prove to us that things there have really changed.

    Until then my assumption is that HP will muddle along without a clear animating strategic vision for their products, without a ruthlessly single minded leader who can mold their product lines and culture into a coherent and self reinforcing whole.

    Sadly there are not many El Steves out there -- nor are there many companies courageous enough to permit a potential Steve to take the chances and gambles the original has.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    you may well be right -- perhaps deep in the bowels of HP, even now a wryly sophisticated ad campaign is being produced to promote the devastatingly advanced and user friendly webOS products HPalm has been stealthily fermenting for the better part of a year.

    Perhaps ...

    But as with M$, HP's history of blunder and failure means that they have lost the presumption of success, they cannot be presumed to know what they're doing when they introduce new products.

    Most will say show me -- prove to us that things there have really changed.

    Until then my assumption is that HP will muddle along without a clear animating strategic vision for their products, without a ruthlessly single minded leader who can mold their product lines and culture into a coherent and self reinforcing whole.

    Sadly there are not many El Steves out there -- nor are there many companies courageous enough to permit a potential Steve to take the chances and gambles the original has.
    It's a good point, if you look at Nokia, they lost their way because there were simply too many people making decisions and no single driving force. Projects can be pulled or be pushed off track for internal political reasons that we know nothing at all about. WebOS could be pushed off track because of the political clout of the person running the Printer business for reasons known only to themselves.
  14. #34  
    @ BARYE:

    I think HP does have a pretty clear strategy and vision: provide products that present the customer with a comprehensive and unified method for accessing the cloud. HP webOS is the interface, HP services are the back end, HP consumer and enterprise products are the access point.

    The slate doesn't fit that strategy so my guess is the low production run was either a contractual neccesity, or some sort of market research. A company like HP can be both bold and careful.
  15. #35  
    I would assume that since Jon Rubinstein is still at palm hp, that he is being allowed to carry through with his vision for palm's smartphones.

    yes hp may or may not get lost in their ways with webOS for other devices such as printers and computers, but I think JR already had a vision for smartphones and now has resources to try to make them successful.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    @ BARYE:

    I think HP does have a pretty clear strategy and vision: provide products that present the customer with a comprehensive and unified method for accessing the cloud. HP webOS is the interface, HP services are the back end, HP consumer and enterprise products are the access point.

    The slate doesn't fit that strategy so my guess is the low production run was either a contractual neccesity, or some sort of market research. A company like HP can be both bold and careful.
    exactly wat I was sayin which is why yu can't compaire the two
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    I think HP does have a pretty clear strategy and vision: provide products that present the customer with a comprehensive and unified method for accessing the cloud. HP webOS is the interface, HP services are the back end, HP consumer and enterprise products are the access point.
    I think what you're describing here would look great on a powerpoint slide (aka "viewgraph engineering") but has, in no way, been undertaken at HP. This slate release shows it. The Pre 2 release shows it. The years of treating phones and tablet PCs as third tier products shows it. HP hasn't built the necessary corporate culture to do what you describe let alone a technologically viable "comprehensive and unified method" for integrating their widely disparate product line. Right now the only unifying principles seem to be Power (110V/60Hz or 220V/50Hz), internet protocols, and IEEE standards for plug-in sockets.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    @ BARYE:

    I think HP does have a pretty clear strategy and vision: provide products that present the customer with a comprehensive and unified method for accessing the cloud. HP webOS is the interface, HP services are the back end, HP consumer and enterprise products are the access point.

    The slate doesn't fit that strategy so my guess is the low production run was either a contractual neccesity, or some sort of market research. A company like HP can be both bold and careful.
    HP is a conglomeration of disparate products and technologies that has for at least the last decade lacked a unified cultural vision for its stuff.

    They've suffered through two immensely destructive CEOs in Fiorina and Hurd.

    Fiorina's "idea" was making her numbers by outsourcing american jobs to India and doubling down on PCs by buying and then liquidating Compaq.

    Hurd continued w/Fiorina's outsourcing jobs purge while going on an acquisition binge with the ostensible objective of becoming a "services" company like IBM by buying EDS. He bought Palm for -- well it was never clear why, other than its IP portfolio.

    All while their product quality, reliability, and reputation has been devastated.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  19. #39  
    weird, simce HP are still the ones making the most revenue.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    I would assume that since Jon Rubinstein is still at palm hp, that he is being allowed to carry through with his vision for palm's smartphones.

    yes hp may or may not get lost in their ways with webOS for other devices such as printers and computers, but I think JR already had a vision for smartphones and now has resources to try to make them successful.
    you are I think hoping that JR took with him some of El Steve's magic dust when he escaped Apple.

    Judging by how the Pre intro, its manufacturing, and promotion went, I'd color myself a skeptic.

    Though I've sent my share of enmity and envy toward El Steve and 1 Infinite Loop, I recognize the breadth and immensity of what he's achieved.

    Its taken a gargantuan depth of confidence, patience, ruthlessness, creativity, and resolve to do what he's done.

    I've not seen that yet in JR -- or in most any other american CEOs w/the possible exceptions of those of Google and Facebook.
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/15/2010 at 10:55 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
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