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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    no matter what, he changes his point to pretend he is never wrong. some people.
    Who exactly are you talking about, I am curious.

    And It appears we indeed have to wait to CES 2011 to see whether or not Palm is doomed. If they say wait one more time, they will loose fans, and if no new Palm device available for Sprint in May 2011 I might have go to WP7 or Android and I really don't want either of those options.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by helidos View Post
    Actually I provided you with two features missing then left it up to you to do the rest. Voice command or mic access is pretty important for a lot of people the other not so much.
    And these features were promised to be in WebOS 2.0 (which was the assertion)? Where and when were they promised to be in WebOS 2.0? I've seen much information from Palm that they are coming, but nothing that specified WebOS 2.0.

    BTW, both of those are important to me, but no one has promised them to me, so I have a simple choice to make - do I like the other things the device offer enough to forgoe what I can't have.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    The issue I see with this is they have already said "wait" a few times too many. Their sales and marketshare show it too. My guess is that they'll announce something at CES '11...then tell people they have to wait a few months for it. The market in general has given up already, with good reason. But there are certain people who will tell you that all is good (and then twist that statement to mean something else when proven wrong).

    It's interesting that their slogan was (is?) "Life moves fast. Don't miss a thing." but when it comes to products it's "Be patient, they're coming."
    If I was as unhappy with a product as you appear to be, I would certainly move on to another.

    I would also not find it necessary to hang around and try to convince others that the choices they've made are wrong.

    I like the device. I don't deny that. I like the hardware, I like the OS. It would be nice were there something available so I have more features using the platform I prefer, but at this point there's not.

    All the moaning in the world won't change that. All the made up fantasies about "Palm being doomed" are meaningless. If a person likes something else that's available, they should go for it.

    That said, back to the original point of this thread (which wasn't about Apple, or Android, or which of the two twists numbers more) was:

    • WP7 isn't a fail which I submit is way to early in the game to decide (especially in light of the sudden disappearance of MS's last attempt)
    • Does WebOS have a future in smartphones which don't think is dependent on the success or failure of WP7, and is still too early in the game (changed by HP's appearance) to predict.

    Of course, there will be some on here that will insist that not only will Palm fail, but that they already have (which, were it true, would make this whole thread moot).
  4. #104  
    Funny, I don't see any posts here where anyone is trying to convince anyone that their choices are wrong or right. I must be looking at the wrong thread or you have access to some posts that I don't. Oh well.
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And these features were promised to be in WebOS 2.0 (which was the assertion)? Where and when were they promised to be in WebOS 2.0? I've seen much information from Palm that they are coming, but nothing that specified WebOS 2.0.

    BTW, both of those are important to me, but no one has promised them to me, so I have a simple choice to make - do I like the other things the device offer enough to forgoe what I can't have.
    I done finding old info/rescearching etc for you. Take that how ever you want.
  6. #106  
    At PreCentral, we discuss technology, not other members. I deleted several posts that discuss and characterize other members.

    Please stay on topic. Thanks.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    The way things are going right now I am beginning to think that webos does not have a chance. It wll remain niche with little to no growth. I don't even think a super device can rescue it at this point. The app market is just filled with so many homebrew useless apps that it will become hard to convince many people to switch. It might have a chance in the business world though. Maybe.
    That's a big "maybe". Thing is, the business world is not waiting around either. RIM has a similar system to webOS in place. At my current contract, we are entering the mobile world. We've sent developers to a training day with RIM and their new OS is pretty much what webOS is supposed to be. They use JavaScript, HTML and CSS a well and even call their controls "widgets". We are targeting iOS, Android and BBOS6. webOS is not even a consideration at this point. Of course this is just one company, but non of my colleagues who are doing mobile development at there respective companies are looking at webOS either. It seems no one is waiting on HP yet Ruby is telling people to "Be patient."
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I clicked on the very first link that was provided when I asked for a source. You guys want to play games, and then seem to want to cry foul when they don't work the way you want.

    It really was a simple request, and the snitty "here's how you Google" link was what it was. Don't be upset if folks use what they're given.
    I thought it would be obvious when you saw the different activation numbers that it was progression of articles from different time lines. My bad.

    You wanted a source and in this day an age a source a simple search away.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 11/16/2010 at 07:43 PM.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    I thought it would be obvious when you saw the different activation numbers that it was progression of articles from different time lines. My bad.

    You wanted a source and in this day an age a source a simple search away.
    And, as shown in your example, a "simple search" shows little factual information. One person claims a number, another says that number is false, includes multiple activations, etc.

    The reason a person who is actually looking for valid information asks for a source, is to evaluate that source.

    I don't find either of their claims to be very meaningful without the additional questions answered. In other words, I see their claims as just that, claims, not facts.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And, as shown in your example, a "simple search" shows little factual information. One person claims a number, another says that number is false, includes multiple activations, etc.

    The reason a person who is actually looking for valid information asks for a source, is to evaluate that source.

    I don't find either of their claims to be very meaningful without the additional questions answered. In other words, I see their claims as just that, claims, not facts.
    Ok, see what you want. If you want to feint naivete, that's your choice.
  11. #111  
    I think if HP-Palm can get to somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-7% marketshare, they can probably exist there for a long time. We'll continue to get new devices, some developers will continue to develop for the platform, and I will personally be pretty happy with that. That's kind of the Mac model if you think about it. But clearly HP-Palm has to provide more than what we've seen so far in order to get there. And unless something truly magical happens, I don't see them getting to be much bigger than 5-7%. HP or no HP, they would just have to put a whole lot of products out there and flood the market. I think it would cost too much. HP sees more value in the ecosystem they are creating around webOS, so smartphones will merely be one piece of that. And in order for their ecosystem to work, they'll have to be compatible with other smartphones out there. So they'll never be able to generate quite the lock-in effect that Apple has going.

    I think Microsoft can make WP7 about as big as it wants to. I think they actually do better when they're the underdog. And it seems that they are actually motivated to make a big go of it. They'll keep trying for a long time, even if they're losing money. I think their growth may very well come at the expense of Android. If WP7 devices become as ubiquitous as Android devices on retail shelves, and have similar quality, they'll probably move at about the same rate, possibly faster if customers are swayed by a good looking UI.

    So I think I see the big battle being between Android and WP7, with iPhone kinda hanging out in the middle somewhere with RIM, and Palm a little below them. That seems like a sort of stable situation to me, at least for a while. Nokia is a wildcard, of course.

    Not sure if that all makes sense, but that was just my stream of consciousness take on things.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I think if HP-Palm can get to somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-7% marketshare, they can probably exist there for a long time. We'll continue to get new devices, some developers will continue to develop for the platform, and I will personally be pretty happy with that. That's kind of the Mac model if you think about it. But clearly HP-Palm has to provide more than what we've seen so far in order to get there. And unless something truly magical happens, I don't see them getting to be much bigger than 5-7%. HP or no HP, they would just have to put a whole lot of products out there and flood the market. I think it would cost too much. HP sees more value in the ecosystem they are creating around webOS, so smartphones will merely be one piece of that. And in order for their ecosystem to work, they'll have to be compatible with other smartphones out there. So they'll never be able to generate quite the lock-in effect that Apple has going.

    I think Microsoft can make WP7 about as big as it wants to. I think they actually do better when they're the underdog. And it seems that they are actually motivated to make a big go of it. They'll keep trying for a long time, even if they're losing money. I think their growth may very well come at the expense of Android. If WP7 devices become as ubiquitous as Android devices on retail shelves, and have similar quality, they'll probably move at about the same rate, possibly faster if customers are swayed by a good looking UI.

    So I think I see the big battle being between Android and WP7, with iPhone kinda hanging out in the middle somewhere with RIM, and Palm a little below them. That seems like a sort of stable situation to me, at least for a while. Nokia is a wildcard, of course.

    Not sure if that all makes sense, but that was just my stream of consciousness take on things.
    Sounds good. I would like to see more than 5-7%. I think that a good webos tablet (incuding some other items for that tablet) with excellent slick hardware can boost webos smart phone sales.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I think if HP-Palm can get to somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-7% marketshare, they can probably exist there for a long time. We'll continue to get new devices, some developers will continue to develop for the platform, and I will personally be pretty happy with that. That's kind of the Mac model if you think about it. But clearly HP-Palm has to provide more than what we've seen so far in order to get there. And unless something truly magical happens, I don't see them getting to be much bigger than 5-7%. HP or no HP, they would just have to put a whole lot of products out there and flood the market. I think it would cost too much. HP sees more value in the ecosystem they are creating around webOS, so smartphones will merely be one piece of that. And in order for their ecosystem to work, they'll have to be compatible with other smartphones out there. So they'll never be able to generate quite the lock-in effect that Apple has going.

    I think Microsoft can make WP7 about as big as it wants to. I think they actually do better when they're the underdog. And it seems that they are actually motivated to make a big go of it. They'll keep trying for a long time, even if they're losing money. I think their growth may very well come at the expense of Android. If WP7 devices become as ubiquitous as Android devices on retail shelves, and have similar quality, they'll probably move at about the same rate, possibly faster if customers are swayed by a good looking UI.

    So I think I see the big battle being between Android and WP7, with iPhone kinda hanging out in the middle somewhere with RIM, and Palm a little below them. That seems like a sort of stable situation to me, at least for a while. Nokia is a wildcard, of course.

    Not sure if that all makes sense, but that was just my stream of consciousness take on things.
    My question is "How?" Assuming the market stands still (does not expand) they would have to sell between 2.9M and 4.1M devices to get there. So far they haven't gotten the bottom number after 18 months. A lot would have to change in order to hit those numbers in today's market. Even more has to change in order to meet the equivalent numbers in tomorrow's market (assuming the market continues to expand at a rate similar to it's current rate).

    If smartphones for HP simply become "another connected" device rather than a focal point (I've seen a few hints at this), how are they going to get those numbers in the smartphone space?
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Ok, see what you want. If you want to feint naivete, that's your choice.
    Feint naivete, did you Google search that?

    I'm feigning nothing. I'm neither naive, nor pretending to be. However, I find it more than a tad irritating when people come on here and self-righteously pretend they're quoting facts, when indeed they're simply spouting opinions.

    Again, nothing wrong with having opinions, or even expressing them; however, the pretense, then the "piling on" attacks against those that disagree is not acceptable.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    My question is "How?" Assuming the market stands still (does not expand) they would have to sell between 2.9M and 4.1M devices to get there. So far they haven't gotten the bottom number after 18 months.
    Except "they" haven't been selling for 18 months. "They" have been selling for about 6, and haven't yet introduced their new products.


    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    If smartphones for HP simply become "another connected" device rather than a focal point (I've seen a few hints at this), how are they going to get those numbers in the smartphone space?
    Assuming your assumption is correct, I'd agree. I've seen more than "a few hints" that they plan on it being much more than simply "another connected device".
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Except "they" haven't been selling for 18 months. "They" have been selling for about 6, and haven't yet introduced their new products.
    EXACTLY! We know Palm is good for shooting themselves in the foot recently but NO ONE here or elsewhere KNOWS what HP is capable of. Any statements to the contrary is merely 'specuhating' at this point. At the end of 2011, THEN we can pass judgment on how HP did. Their $116B didn't fall from the sky, they EARNED it.
  17. #117  
    I think HP can be both cheap and go after the high end business market. They have the clout to pull this off if that's what they want. It would be smart for them to put out a device or two aimed at the soccer mom that would be very cost affordable so all the kids could stay connected to mom and they could also have a high end device that suits the needs of the business community. I see no reason why they couldn't accomplish both as the printer division already has.
    If "If's" and "But's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!


  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by spudland View Post
    I think HP can be both cheap and go after the high end business market. They have the clout to pull this off if that's what they want. It would be smart for them to put out a device or two aimed at the soccer mom that would be very cost affordable so all the kids could stay connected to mom and they could also have a high end device that suits the needs of the business community. I see no reason why they couldn't accomplish both as the printer division already has.
    According to JR, they aren't even ready to start playing in the game yet (with webOS). 12 - 18 months is a long time. Perhaps the Enterprise will have to be patient as well.
  19. cgk
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    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    According to JR, they aren't even ready to start playing in the game yet (with webOS). 12 - 18 months is a long time. Perhaps the Enterprise will have to be patient as well.

    But he also said that HP have a separate division that is working on Windows Tablet for Enterprise. So are they planing to compete against themselves? Microsoft tried that and it ended up with a mish-mash of products that replicated functionality and a whole lot of confused customers...
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But he also said that HP have a separate division that is working on Windows Tablet for Enterprise. So are they planing to compete against themselves? Microsoft tried that and it ended up with a mish-mash of products that replicated functionality and a whole lot of confused customers...
    Yeah, I was a little confused by that as well. I still can't tell if the webOS thing is going to be targeted to consumers, the enterprise or both. Was his "be patient" statement made for the consumers? Sounded that way since he started out by saying "for the webOS [diehards]" (I don't remember the exact word and don't feel like looking at the footage again).

    Anyway, that "conversation" created more questions than answers, IMO.
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