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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    What business in their right mind would choose HP/Palm when they have no idea what the immediate future is for that platform? It's too limited as well. Employees wouldn't like it as studies show noone is thinking of buying a webOS device.

    Many would see moving from RIM to Palm a downgrade...not exactly an upgrade.
    Maybe they're playing for keeps...you know, giving away a Touchstone bundle and a gift card with each handset. I hear that Apple, Google, and Microsoft refer to this internally as "the nuclear option".
  2. cgk
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    #42  
    If they passed over android, BB and iOS and went for one of the lesser OSes (in terms of share) - why would they pick up WebOS rather than Windows phone 7 - which has native support of office, sharepoint integration, outlook etc?
  3. #43  
    Love this line:
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Well, when you race to the bottom in pricing, you tend to get there.
    I was going to respond to NickDG, but your above three post just about covered everything. Brilliant.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    What business in their right mind would choose HP/Palm when they have no idea what the immediate future is for that platform? It's too limited as well. Employees wouldn't like it as studies show noone is thinking of buying a webOS device.

    Many would see moving from RIM to Palm a downgrade...not exactly an upgrade.
    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Maybe they're playing for keeps...you know, giving away a Touchstone bundle and a gift card with each handset. I hear that Apple, Google, and Microsoft refer to this internally as "the nuclear option".
    Ha, Ha, LMAO "nuclear option"

    I want to see a a WebOS tablet release. Or a similteanous Tablet and Phone release. That would really stir things up.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nice mash-up of arguments. But if I can click Undo, I'm just going to go ahead and restore them to their original states. The two arguments - one of which I was making in this thread, the other I was not - are that:

    1) If HP wants to go after "new customers", the Palm Pre 2 and its subsequently embarrassing and quiet launch stand little chance of making that happen,
    2) If HP wants to go after "new customers", its best and only chance is with a truly new slate of WebOS products.

    I don't care about stopping HP or anyone who wants to wait until the end of time for them to get it together. The market starts and stops these things, not you or I. As of now...they're stopped.



    A chance to sell some phones and make some money? Sounds kinda circular.



    With all due respect, who do you think isn't targeting "new smart phone customers? This is an industry in the midst of exponential growth. The Kin tried to target new smartphone customers. So did the Pre. So does the Blackberry Torch. So did the Blackberry Storm, for that matter. Put 'em all together, and you get a whole lotta failure. On the other hand, so did the iPhone and so did the Droid brand. They're blockbuster successes. So just the act of "targeting new smartphone customers" isn't enough to increase or decrease your chances of failure.

    I would argue that you need to release the superior product that makes customers target you.
    Again, I don't know how the Pre 2 in france has gone but I agree hp needs new devices. The Pre 2 alone won't save Palm.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nice mash-up of arguments. But if I can click Undo, I'm just going to go ahead and restore them to their original states. The two arguments - one of which I was making in this thread, the other I was not - are that:

    1) If HP wants to go after "new customers", the Palm Pre 2 and its subsequently embarrassing and quiet launch stand little chance of making that happen,
    2) If HP wants to go after "new customers", its best and only chance is with a truly new slate of WebOS products.

    I don't care about stopping HP or anyone who wants to wait until the end of time for them to get it together. The market starts and stops these things, not you or I. As of now...they're stopped.
    Everything had stopped, everyone hates the Pre, blah, blah, blah. Some nice "bridge work" you've done there. Once again though FACTS fly in the face of your FUD...

    FACT - webOS GAINED 200,000 users last quarter with the "crappy old hw". This is not deliveries, or sell through, but DEVICES "registering" on a server. So what, someone is opening boxes, activating Pres and surfing on them? Lmao...


    FACT - if you google "Palm Pre 2" you get 45 million hits. The latest and greatest on the market are the WP7 phones (which are all 1ghz, 512mb, 16gb) and if you google them..

    *Samsung Focus = 45m
    *HTC 7 Pro = 30m
    *LG Quantum = 29m
    *HTC HD 7 = 23m
    *Dell Venue Pro = 15m

    So it would seem people DO CARE about the Palm Pre 2 and as much as the LATEST WP7 "superphones" to boot. Unless you're going to counter that web pages aren't and indicator of people taking about a particular subject?

    And the kicker for me is 3 of the WP7 phones aren't launching til Q1 of 2011 and they'll have...yep 1ghz, 512mb, and 16gb.
  6. Helidos's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    FACT - webOS GAINED 200,000 users last quarter with the "crappy old hw". This is not deliveries, or sell through, but DEVICES "registering" on a server. So what, someone is opening boxes, activating Pres and surfing on them? Lmao...
    Care to share were your getting those numbers from? Just saying fact doesn't prove anything.

    That's kinda like me saying

    FACT - Helidosfuman OS GAINED 1 billion users yesterday with its imaginary features. This is not made up, or rumors, but real people registering on a server. So what, someone is creating multiply accounts, downloading the OS and then registering? Lmao...

    Post some kinda of source or your fact means as much as mine


    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    FACT - if you google "Palm Pre 2" you get 45 million hits. The latest and greatest on the market are the WP7 phones (which are all 1ghz, 512mb, 16gb) and if you google them..

    *Samsung Focus = 45m
    *HTC 7 Pro = 30m
    *LG Quantum = 29m
    *HTC HD 7 = 23m
    *Dell Venue Pro = 15m
    Fact: you don't understand how google search works click to page 55+ and start seeing results that are related to religion,real estate and a whole bunch of other stuff because somewhere on the page its say Palm or Pre and has 2 etc etc etc.

    Google results mean nothing.
    Last edited by helidos; 11/11/2010 at 06:32 PM.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Everything had stopped, everyone hates the Pre, blah, blah, blah. Some nice "bridge work" you've done there. Once again though FACTS fly in the face of your FUD...

    FACT - webOS GAINED 200,000 users last quarter with the "crappy old hw". This is not deliveries, or sell through, but DEVICES "registering" on a server. So what, someone is opening boxes, activating Pres and surfing on them? Lmao...


    FACT - if you google "Palm Pre 2" you get 45 million hits. The latest and greatest on the market are the WP7 phones (which are all 1ghz, 512mb, 16gb) and if you google them..

    *Samsung Focus = 45m
    *HTC 7 Pro = 30m
    *LG Quantum = 29m
    *HTC HD 7 = 23m
    *Dell Venue Pro = 15m

    So it would seem people DO CARE about the Palm Pre 2 and as much as the LATEST WP7 "superphones" to boot. Unless you're going to counter that web pages aren't and indicator of people taking about a particular subject?

    And the kicker for me is 3 of the WP7 phones aren't launching til Q1 of 2011 and they'll have...yep 1ghz, 512mb, and 16gb.
    200,000 new user's in a quarter for old hardware is impressive, but as opposed to what? Isn't Android doing that many activations weekly?

    Too bad the 45 million hits will not translate into 45 million new users. As I have said before when this was posted elsewhere, people love to stop and look at a car wreck. It's called "rubbernecking".
  8. Helidos's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    200,000 new user's in a quarter for old hardware is impressive, but as opposed to what? Isn't Android doing that many activations weekly?

    Too bad the 45 million hits will not translate into 45 million new users. As I have said before when this was posted elsewhere, people love to stop and look at a car wreck. It's called "rubbernecking".
    android is activating 200k a day with iOS doing 270k a day. But I still want to see his source.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by helidos View Post
    android is activating 200k a day with iOS doing 270k a day. But I still want to see his source.
    Thanks for the correction. Those 45mil hits is more than likely the 3 or 4 mil webos users constantly hitting the refresh button to see if anything has changed with Pre 2 and Sprint.
  10. Helidos's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Thanks for the correction. Those 45mil hits is more than likely the 3 or 4 mil webos users constantly hitting the refresh button to see if anything has changed with Pre 2 and Sprint.

    Np

    And the google thing is google finding pages that have the word palm, pre or the number two all in the same page somewhere even if the site is about this guy scraped his palm on a 2 foot long pipe. Or Mary who live on Palm ave is selling a 2 bedroom home with central air. So 45m hits means jack dodo when 90% of the results are not related to the search term but do contain one or more of the words in the search field.
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Everything had stopped, everyone hates the Pre, blah, blah, blah. Some nice "bridge work" you've done there. Once again though FACTS fly in the face of your FUD...

    FACT - webOS GAINED 200,000 users last quarter with the "crappy old hw". This is not deliveries, or sell through, but DEVICES "registering" on a server. So what, someone is opening boxes, activating Pres and surfing on them? Lmao...


    FACT - if you google "Palm Pre 2" you get 45 million hits. The latest and greatest on the market are the WP7 phones (which are all 1ghz, 512mb, 16gb) and if you google them..

    *Samsung Focus = 45m
    *HTC 7 Pro = 30m
    *LG Quantum = 29m
    *HTC HD 7 = 23m
    *Dell Venue Pro = 15m

    So it would seem people DO CARE about the Palm Pre 2 and as much as the LATEST WP7 "superphones" to boot. Unless you're going to counter that web pages aren't and indicator of people taking about a particular subject?

    And the kicker for me is 3 of the WP7 phones aren't launching til Q1 of 2011 and they'll have...yep 1ghz, 512mb, and 16gb.
    This is hilarious.

    Lets use your logic.

    Type in Windows Phone 7 into google and see the results.
    Type in Web OS are any variation of WebOS and see the results.

    Proceed to get your feelings hurt.

    You googled specific Windows Phones and not the OS itself. The same would happen with any specific android phone. The results would be less than the results for just searching for the os (android). The opposite is true for Palms webos.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    FACT - webOS GAINED 200,000 users last quarter with the "crappy old hw". This is not deliveries, or sell through, but DEVICES "registering" on a server. So what, someone is opening boxes, activating Pres and surfing on them? Lmao...
    Actually that was two quarters ago. Last quater they only gained about 66K (this is while RIM gained 1.2M, Apple gained 1.9M and Google gained 5M). On the bright side, they did better them WM who lost about 600K.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by helidos View Post
    android is activating 200k a day with iOS doing 270k a day. But I still want to see his source.
    Really? C'mon at least 'try'..

    http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2010/9/comScore_Reports_July_2010_U.S._Mobile_Subscriber_Market_Share

    /smh
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Again, this is old. The new report is out and the increase for Palm was only 66K this time around. That's a total of ~266K in six months. It is unlikely that number will show up in Palm's marketing material because they realize what it signifies. Do you?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Actually that was two quarters ago. Last quater they only gained about 66K (this is while RIM gained 1.2M, Apple gained 1.9M and Google gained 5M). On the bright side, they did better them WM who lost about 600K.
    Ok, two quarters ago then. Still, 66k being a puny number is still GAINING webOS users with the old Pre/Pixi phones which means for all the "Palm sucks, I'm leaving" folks, STILL wasn't enough to offset the gains which means more people came on board than left.

    Thx for that correction though.

    (i also "sold" 3 more Pres last quarter bringing my total to 17, and they're happy as larks.)
  16. #56  
    "GAIN" should be put into perspective here. Maybe they gained more than they lost but was it enough to mean anything? According to your logic, if they had only gained ONE device it would still be good because they would have gained more than they lost. My question is this. At what point are the gains not worth mentioning? 66K is hardly something worth mentioning in the smartphone market.

    What's more important than that figure is the trend. Their current trend shows pretty impressive decline. This is why you'll only see those numbers touted here rather than any of Palm's marketing. It really is NOT a good thing.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    "GAIN" should be put into perspective here. Maybe they gained more than they lost but was it enough to mean anything? According to your logic, if they had only gained ONE device it would still be good because they would have gained more than they lost. My question is this. At what point are the gains not worth mentioning? 66K is hardly something worth mentioning in the smartphone market.

    What's more important than that figure is the trend. Their current trend shows pretty impressive decline. This is why you'll only see those numbers touted here rather than any of Palm's marketing. It really is NOT a good thing.
    It's not meant to be "impressive" in the grand sense, more a reminder to the "bridge folk" that despite their cries that "Pre sucks and everyone hates it" is patently untrue because people are still BUYING them even while "droves" of people are fleeing to others platforms.

    If the latter were true, there'd be no new users and the 4.9% would be declining to 4.5%, 3.9%, etc. And this is while Palm\HP have done 'nothing' to improve marketshare in over half a year.
  18. Helidos's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    You want to link comScore data.. Ok lets link it...

    Take a look.

    Posted in Oct 2010

    comScore Reports August 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share


    Posted on Nov 3

    comScore Reports September 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share


    So there you have after all the release day pre owners were eligible for upgrade june/july palm numbers start taking a dive. Whats that tell you people want off the platform because the old hardware is crap. Most will return when palm releases some decent hardware.

    And no the pre 2 is not decent compared to the rock solid phones of today. Specs mean poo when your phone has a failure rate the same as the original xbox 360.

    And lets no forget Sprint and Verizon have removed the pre's from there stores/site ya old hardware is awesome......
    Last edited by sledge007; 04/03/2012 at 10:41 AM.
  19. #59  
    cobrakon, let's put the 66,000 new users in perspective. I once had a girlfriend who live in a place in NYC called Co-Op City. The number or residents on the 320 acre complex is 55,000. That is just 11,00 shy of your total increase. And Co-Op City is just one part of a neighborhood in NYC. So basically, the increase you are ranting about just about makes up a neighborhood. If everyone in that complex decided to buy one of those 66,000, you would only have 11,000 left for the rest of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    (i also "sold" 3 more Pres last quarter bringing my total to 17, and they're happy as larks.)
    Damn, I hope they were not close friends of yours. Whatcha gonna tell them when the phone starts to fall apart, how great the OS is? I'm glad you don't consider me a friend. I would have told my friends to wait. Hope they don't have your home address brother.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 11/11/2010 at 08:18 PM.
  20. #60  
    I'm interested in hearing more about this mythical market of non-smartphone users who are ripe for the smartphone pickings. For those of you who suggest this is HP's target market, have you ever stopped to consider that they are non-smartphone users for a reason? What exactly does HP offer to make them change their minds?

    In the once ago, it may have been a matter of money for the handset. These days, popular smartphones are cheap to free, and advertised as such on every station on every show. Initial cost of entry is not a barrier, so trying to sell cheap phones will not reach these people. Even at free, there is always a handset that is cheaper.

    If the cost issue is the price of the monthly bill, that hasn't changed. Your free smartphone still costs them $70 - $100 per month. Features? Their feature phones have plenty of features, and they don't come close to using all of those. Complexity? Some people will never want to carry something in their pocket that acts so much like a computer.

    I could go on. But my point has been made. HP needs to learn this lesson: People who don't want smartphones, don't want smartphones! Chasing after people who self identify as people who don't want what you sell is insane.

    As for those who are in their late teens, early twenties, and embarking on adulthood for the first time, they already know what they want. They are saving up for an iPhone, and maybe and EVO. They may not have a smartphone, yet. But, they don't live under a rock, either.

    The first-time smartphone buyer is not some rube from the sticks who has never seen one of these new fangled gadgets, and will be awed by the Pre. It is not like they don't already know what's out there, and what they want. Showing them a Pre will not be the same as showing a flashlight to a primitive people who think it's magic. You still have to convince them that they really don't want an iPhone, EVO, or BB, like their friends, family, and co-workers.
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