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  1.    #21  
    An much larger majority of people walking around out there haven't gotten a Segway yet, either so maybe HP should make individual people-movers.
  2. #22  
    Has anyone seen the Samsung Continuum? They are basically ripping off the notification bar from Palm.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by tauseefqureshi View Post
    Has anyone seen the Samsung Continuum? They are basically ripping off the notification bar from Palm.
    It's not like Palm was doing anything with it.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by tauseefqureshi View Post
    Has anyone seen the Samsung Continuum? They are basically ripping off the notification bar from Palm.
    Fluff. Probably the only thing you'd get from that extra bit of screen real estate are ads from using free apps. I'd rather have had the entire screen, with no touch-wiz UI overlaying the OS.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by tauseefqureshi View Post
    Has anyone seen the Samsung Continuum? They are basically ripping off the notification bar from Palm.
    Doesn't the notification "bar" just rip off the notification "shade" that Android already had from day one several months prior to WebOS or the Pre being announced?
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Windows Phone 7 is already at (edit) 2000 apps.

    Even though they are just under half of the WebOS catalog, they already dwarf WebOS with big name apps like Netflix, ORIGINAL 3D games, Shazam, and so on. They got there in one month. We're at 18 months and counting. The (rather huge) retailer I work for already has the mobile team working on a WP7 app just as they are working on the Android one. WebOS hasn't even been mentioned for possibility.
    Yep. That they are moving fast and Palm was so slow and out of it in the app area perplexes me. There just really is no support. every day it's a new apps post on the front page with NOTHING i've heard of. They'll pass webos i'd guess before xmas. and that's the difference they got companies wanting to make apps. few companies want to make webos apps. Only the small time guys making novelty apps.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I really hope HP has a similar launch with agreements already in place for weeks after CES. This "in the coming months/soon" nonsense is doing them no favors. Nobody is standing still except for HP.
    short of a a miracle of hardware, apps, and meaningful OS updates i think that will be too late. They'll still sell a few phones to the niche followers but i think they already blew it personally. because people will go where the apps, media, social networking etc is. They won't go where the stacks are. Regardless, i think the next device has to best whats out there in most ways, hardware, software, competent at apps and i just don't know if they'll present that by CES. But we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Rahul Sood says that the window of opportunity never closes, so there.
    The window does close but even if it didn't it's on the 3rd floor and HP doesn't have a ladder.

    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    ...the majority of cell phone users aren't using smartphones yet and every one of them is going to want a webOS device when they finally make the leap.
    Not a chance. Even this precentral has reported that potential customers want webos less and less.
    According to ChangeWave’s numbers, Palm’s potential buyers were cut in half to just 3% of respondents. http://www.precentral.net/changewave...ndroid-gaining And that was the beginning of this year. It's must be lower now since they've done nothing. 3% of potential customers will buy a webos phone? That's not even close to "every one." That's just not dealing in reality.

    And then there is this. direct from Precentral. When asked "What Smartphone OS would you prefer to have on the smart phone you plan on buying?" WebOS got a big fat 0%. 0!

    http://www.precentral.net/consumer-i...tphone-segment
    And that was in September of this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by tauseefqureshi View Post
    Has anyone seen the Samsung Continuum? They are basically ripping off the notification bar from Palm.
    it's an idea. it's fair game. and someone could say, "Anyone seen the Palm Pre? They basically ripped of Window's Alt-Tab when they made cards." Or "They basically ripped off Cover Flow with their cards." You can protect the code and patent the hardware but there's very nothing wrong with copying the idea of a notification bar.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 11/09/2010 at 02:08 PM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Doesn't the notification "bar" just rip off the notification "shade" that Android already had from day one several months prior to WebOS or the Pre being announced?
    No.
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    And then there is this. direct from Precentral. When asked "What Smartphone OS would you prefer to have on the smart phone you plan on buying?" WebOS got a big fat 0%. 0!

    http://www.precentral.net/consumer-i...tphone-segment
    And that was in September of this year.
    It's hard to want what I don't know will ever exist.
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    No.
    Care to elaborate? Of course it's functionally different as it should be to avoid lawsuits, but it's a notification area that can be summoned and dismissed with a swipe (horizontal instead of vertically like Android).

    I don't think they set out to ripoff Android, but there is more in common between these two concepts that there is with the lower area of the Samsung Continuum - which alternates between providing the date/time/weather and extending the notification shade for alerts and RSS - and the WebOS notification bar, which provides alerts and message previews.
  10. jeffa00's Avatar
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    #30  
    I've played with WP7, and I like it.

    Pretty severe gear grinding in my head and fingers to press a "back" button instead of swiping... Guess I've really gotten used to my Pre Plus. Buttons seem "quaint".

    The squares look pretty bland, but the fact you can push updates to them is nice. The fact that apps don't have to sit in the background and poll a server saves CPU and therefore battery. I like the idea of hubs. The Metro UI is all about "at a glance" information. It may not be the prettiest thing you've ever seen, but it is functional.

    I'm porting my WebOS app to WP7 and the developer experience is pretty good. Sucks to pay $99 for the right to submit after working with Palm. WebOS is far more open in all respects. Have to say I prefer working in Visual Studio (and C#) to the options for WebOS. That's mostly personal preference. The only place I'd say Microsoft is demonstrably better is in debugging. WebOS wins HANDS DOWN for HTML in apps, however (oddly enough...). The browser control in WP7 is temperamental to say the least. Since my app is a dedicated eReader for my science fiction stories and comics, HTML rendering is crucial. That part took no time on webOS and a LOT of time on WP7. I'm ready to submit my app to MS except for one bug which MAY only exist in the emulator. Bleh.

    The Panorama and Pivot UI widgets are cool. They could be implemented in WebOS, of course. The Pivot widget is BADLY named. It doesn't at all convey what it does. Basically it is like a tabbed interface without tabs. Just names across the top that slide across as you move from "tab" to "tab". You can click the names, or swipe to get to the next "tab". Sounds weird but works great. Panorama will likely be the most abused. You can scroll and scroll and scroll. Parallax scrolling looks cool.

    For me as a developer one of the things I really like about WP7 (and .Net in general) are the lambdas and LINQ. Hard to explain to non-developers, but you can easily query objects in memory as if they were a database. Nice capability for working with data.

    I'd love to have one of each phone out there... I love WebOS, WP7, Android, etc. Did leave any out? :-)
    Original science fiction, fantasy and comics for WebOS - Galactic Beacon: Volume 1
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Care to elaborate? Of course it's functionally different as it should be to avoid lawsuits, but it's a notification area that can be summoned and dismissed with a swipe (horizontal instead of vertically like Android).

    I don't think they set out to ripoff Android, but there is more in common between these two concepts that there is with the lower area of the Samsung Continuum - which alternates between providing the date/time/weather and extending the notification shade for alerts and RSS - and the WebOS notification bar, which provides alerts and message previews.
    I certainly don't think Samsung came by the Continuum's notification bar honestly, that is without borrowing heavily from the Pre. That's kinda like saying all the pinch to zoomers didn't outright take the tech from Apple.

    I think that there is a very good possibility that Palm's notification idea evolved not out of ripping off Android and their vertical shade, but out of making a notification system that worked.

    The functionality of the notification system on WebOs is actually very different functionally not just astheically. Android did it their way, and Palm did it theirs. Neither invented notifications, but both found a way to do it well.

    Which brings me back to the continuum. Adding a scrolling feature to your notifications is a good way to try to distance yourself from a very obvious knock off.

    The question really is, at what point does innovation end and plagiary begin?
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  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    The question really is, at what point does innovation end and plagiary begin?
    Cool! Some more lawsuits over stolen IP!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    I certainly don't think Samsung came by the Continuum's notification bar honestly, that is without borrowing heavily from the Pre. That's kinda like saying all the pinch to zoomers didn't outright take the tech from Apple.

    I think that there is a very good possibility that Palm's notification idea evolved not out of ripping off Android and their vertical shade, but out of making a notification system that worked.

    The functionality of the notification system on WebOs is actually very different functionally not just astheically. Android did it their way, and Palm did it theirs. Neither invented notifications, but both found a way to do it well.

    Which brings me back to the continuum. Adding a scrolling feature to your notifications is a good way to try to distance yourself from a very obvious knock off.

    The question really is, at what point does innovation end and plagiary begin?
    I just gotta disagree. The vast majority of the time, that display area displays the time and date. Touching both sides of the phone lights up the ticker, which is otherwise in the default state mentioned above. And it scrolls. That is three HUGE differences between that and the WebOS notifications area.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    It's hard to want what I don't know will ever exist.
    But webos does exist already. it's a question about what os. not what unannounced phone.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I just gotta disagree. The vast majority of the time, that display area displays the time and date. Touching both sides of the phone lights up the ticker, which is otherwise in the default state mentioned above. And it scrolls. That is three HUGE differences between that and the WebOS notifications area.
    So they ripped of Yahoo with the ticker... well actually, they ripped of the NYSE.

    Anyway, having a separate notifications area at the bottom seems like it borrowed more than you think from Palm.

    Either way, I am all for taking existing tech and making it better, I just don't kid myself into thinking that there isn't a lot of "borrowing" bordering on theft that goes on.
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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffa00 View Post
    I've played with WP7, and I like it.

    Pretty severe gear grinding in my head and fingers to press a "back" button instead of swiping... Guess I've really gotten used to my Pre Plus. Buttons seem "quaint".

    The squares look pretty bland, but the fact you can push updates to them is nice. The fact that apps don't have to sit in the background and poll a server saves CPU and therefore battery. I like the idea of hubs. The Metro UI is all about "at a glance" information. It may not be the prettiest thing you've ever seen, but it is functional.

    I'm porting my WebOS app to WP7 and the developer experience is pretty good. Sucks to pay $99 for the right to submit after working with Palm. WebOS is far more open in all respects. Have to say I prefer working in Visual Studio (and C#) to the options for WebOS. That's mostly personal preference. The only place I'd say Microsoft is demonstrably better is in debugging. WebOS wins HANDS DOWN for HTML in apps, however (oddly enough...). The browser control in WP7 is temperamental to say the least. Since my app is a dedicated eReader for my science fiction stories and comics, HTML rendering is crucial. That part took no time on webOS and a LOT of time on WP7. I'm ready to submit my app to MS except for one bug which MAY only exist in the emulator. Bleh.

    The Panorama and Pivot UI widgets are cool. They could be implemented in WebOS, of course. The Pivot widget is BADLY named. It doesn't at all convey what it does. Basically it is like a tabbed interface without tabs. Just names across the top that slide across as you move from "tab" to "tab". You can click the names, or swipe to get to the next "tab". Sounds weird but works great. Panorama will likely be the most abused. You can scroll and scroll and scroll. Parallax scrolling looks cool.

    For me as a developer one of the things I really like about WP7 (and .Net in general) are the lambdas and LINQ. Hard to explain to non-developers, but you can easily query objects in memory as if they were a database. Nice capability for working with data.

    I'd love to have one of each phone out there... I love WebOS, WP7, Android, etc. Did leave any out? :-)


    Thanks for this. Its nice to know what developers think about it.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    But webos does exist already. it's a question about what os. not what unannounced phone.
    True, but the m.o. of tech companies is to release a new phone each year. Without an announcement of any kind, and the financial trouble that Palm was in prior to being bought out by HP, how would anyone want anything with WebOs considering the antiquated specs?

    When you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone with a new Android phone, it is easy to see why people want them.

    I imagine that survey will change next year with more people wanting WebOs and Windows Phone 7 based on the fact that new hardware is and will be available. Really, interest in a phone OS is all about the hardware.
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    The question really is, at what point does innovation end and plagiary begin?
    there is no law against applying similar ideas in your user interface.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    True, but the m.o. of tech companies is to release a new phone each year. Without an announcement of any kind, and the financial trouble that Palm was in prior to being bought out by HP, how would anyone want anything with WebOs considering the antiquated specs?

    When you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone with a new Android phone, it is easy to see why people want them.

    I imagine that survey will change next year with more people wanting WebOs and Windows Phone 7 based on the fact that new hardware is and will be available. Really, interest in a phone OS is all about the hardware.
    that's just bogus. it may be all about hardware for you but not for everyone and not for me. it's all about the total package to me. people just don't want webos phones outside of precentral right now. And there weren't windows 7 phone out when that was done but they got above 1%. And yes they'll go up cause people are already buying a ton of phones, they seem to have great app support, and they already have a zune software to handle media transfers. it's got the potential to be a way better platform so far. Not to mention, unlike webos, the new windows is a drastic improvement from windows 6.5. WebOS and stacks has little wow. But this question is completely independent of hardware. To all of a sudden attribute the respondents decision to a lack of hardware when the survey clearly says what os do you want on your phone is just not logical. That assumes people can't read. it clearly says what OS do you want. They picked one. Webos just didn't do well. End of story. And there's zero hype for pre 2 so this idea that it's gonna change anytime soon i think is a bit crazy.
  20. cgk
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Don't forget that it is routine in other industries that when a market expands, companies that got no marketshare before are magically granted lots more because...you know...there's more people. Right?

    It's interesting how the narrative has morphed over time, if I remember it correctly it went:

    "This is a phone for the fat middle" (I'll admit it, I bought into this one)

    then it was

    "This is the only phone with multi-tasking, so will attract prosumers"

    now it seems to be

    "We'll pick up all of the new customers in the market"

    (It's the same for the Pixi but with "who like pink" added on the end).
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