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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    ]



    No, I didn't say that. Again, a 1920x1080 image is always of a higher resolution than a 1280x720. Period.

    But does the Pre have higher PPI than the Evo? The Evo has 800X480 and the Pre 480X320. And regardless, you're now claiming you want a larger screen. If you upscale the image size and don't maintain the same PPI, of course you won't have the exact same resolution.
    I have said many, many times before that I want a larger screen. The only position I am defending is that they should have more then one form factor. And in my opinion you shouldn't count out something that hasn't been proven yet. As you have stated, we don't know, its speculation to say they wont and that they will.

    You were the one that stated you read up on all the major handsets, not the Android line anymore, which indicates you're at least aware of the Evo's feature set.
    ....
    Honestly, you're the one that mentioned Sprint got many responses regarding the Pre. It would really be up to you to support your argument not me.
    http://www.precentral.net/call-actio...t-should-focus
    If you look at this page you will learn that many people are excited about WebOS. Sure, thats not "Pre 2" but that does show Sprint they should get a WebOS device because -- if you go and look -- 58% out of 4800 people want a new WebOS device on Sprint.

    I didn't say there should be one form factor. I stated the slab IS the defacto standard now. The big players all have highly successful slabs. The clamshell design of the Pre doesn't have the same success.
    Well then my question paid off then. I only asked that to get that message through to you. Go back and read all my posts here, never once have I actually said large form factors are not in. It was you who implied that I did and it was you who suggested that I was "stubborn" for not admitting that large slabs are in. Do you think I am some illogical, emotional, fan who thinks everything Palm does is amazing and same with HP? Don't try to answer that, you all ready called me emotional and stobborn, and I'll go back and quote you if you'd like. Just like taharka told me -- don't take this personal.



    No matter to me really as I already stated I don't care what they do. I'm an Android user now and the surest test, the one that matters to me most is time with the handsets. I've had both, required them to at least make a call every time and the Pre failed to do that.


    I'm not going to speculate on what HP will do with Palm. We know they bought them for WebOS. What else they choose to do will be learned eventually.
    I am not a big fan of Android myself, but it has nothing to do with the features. In fact I often defend Android against iPhone lovers who make Android seem like a copy cat and nothing more of iOS (which, in many ways, is true.) No, I don't like Android because of a company called Google. I love Google, but more and more I wonder what they are doing behind the scenes. Call me paranoid, but with learning that since 2007 my voice was used for research to create the Voice Control you love in Android (your welcome, btw) and that they spent millions if not billions of dollars on that one project alone -- what else are they doing? What are they using my email (yes, I use gmail -- but I am too lazy to switch, and gab nabit they have the best email around) for? In the end, Google is a very good, smart company. They create such great products. Their search engine is amazing. Their gmail is better then any email available. And their Android is one of the best OS's on mobile phones, right next to WebOS and iOS. I don't know who's is the best, but WebOS is one of my top 3.

    I, if I had to pick OS's that I will buy next -- which is not a BB OS -- WebOS (assuming I am right in my speculation that more form factors are coming), iOS or Meebo. That depends if iOS/Meebo is on Sprint by May 2011. If not, oh well! WebOS for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Open market does not have anything to do with why people say Iphone/droid/galaxy hardware is better. If anything, if you were selling an Webos phone to a user, I would not mention anything about Palm's open market, that is a detraction.
    Very true. Never mention a question point and make it as a feature. Or if you do, say something general. Good overall post BTW!


    EDIT: This just in: Flash will (sorta) be available on the iOS platform via a third party app. This isn't an official support from Apple, and it works a different way. An app called Skyfire will allow you to click on a video -- then they will render it and translate it to HTML5 -- and you will then be able to watch it. For more info on this app, go to cnn.com.
    Last edited by astraith; 11/02/2010 at 06:47 AM.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    How exactly would a carrier use homebrew as selling point? This is not a hardware feature
    True. But neither is flash or multitasking.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Proof of your statement? Otherwise this is seen as a better feature by consumers.
    I agree that more MP is misinterpreted as being always better. Just like more MB RAM will always look better.
    1 GB of RAM is utterly useless as long as people won't even fully use 512 MB - but even on this forum, where people have access to infos that say otherwise, people whine when the next Pre doesn't have at least 1 GB of RAM.

    Proof that more camera MP suffers from diminishing returns and eventually makes the camera worse?
    We can't compare picture printouts but the following should be enough to proof my point:
    1) More MP needs more space for storage - agreed?
    2) More MP will (for a given CPU) need more time to compress the picture - agreed?
    In that regard any increase in MP - by itself - is bad.

    OTOH:
    3) A resolution of 10x10 pixels would be horribly blocky and way too low.
    In that regard higher resolution makes for better, more fine-grained, pictures.

    But unlike the price we pay in CPU activity and storage space (and therefore snapshot speed) there is a limit to how much better resolution will profit us.
    At some point the picture resolution gets better than what our eyes can recognize or the print technology can handle. Agreed?

    So - there is obviously a sweet spot range where we get optimal resolution at lowest cost in speed, storage and price - agreed?

    So - all we have left to debate is at what point we leave that range and get into useless waste territory.

    If you can make use of 8, 10, 12 or 256 MP - fine. Then the added storage, price and loss of speed (or additional CPU/battery requirements) will be worth it for you.
    Professional photographers who need extra resolution for later editing will have higher MP needs than the rest of us.
    For me that range is between 3 and 5 MP. A phone that otherwise have eeverything that I want and as a 3 MP camera is fine with me. If it has a 4 or 5 MP camera - meh - might be nice to have some extra resolution. 2 MP would probably have been enough for most snapshots and what I do with them.
    Beyond that and I'm getting more worried that taking a snapshot will take too long. What I liked about the Pres camera right away is the speed with which it takes snapshots. Most cameras/phones in my experience are slower.
    I consider a 8 MP camera a drawback.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    On iPhone yes, on Android you'd can have a different opinion from an Anbdroid fan. Is this something that is provable to a user comparing Android to Pre 2? If not than it can't be considered a feature.
    Sure we can have different opinions. But I take that from Android users who compared Android with Pre. That webos has the best notifications seems widespread opinion to me. But I have no problem with an Android user who thinks otherwise. Personal preferences.
    I was just listing stuff that could just as easily listed in a chart next to widely unused features like voice dialing or text commands.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Open market does not have anything to do with why people say Iphone/droid/galaxy hardware is better.
    Fine - but if we only talk hardware - then what is flash, voice dialing or text commands doing in that chart? None of those are hardware features. Given that all phones have a microphone all these are entirely software features.

    I agree that an open market is not very important to many people. But it is important to me and some other (minority) percentage.
    But voice dialing is in that chart - and it is also a minority interest. I'm sure it's as important to some people as an open market is to me - but I couldn't care less.

    That's my whole point. Smartphones can have a long list of features. Some more popular than others but we all have our specific mix of preferences.
    That chart is incomplete and reflects the views of the author. That's fine for his preferences - but is still arbitrary.

    A 4" screen that is great for somebody who is looking for a video and browsing machine that s/he can occasionally phone with and will carry in a purse/bag. It would be annoying big for me and not fit into my pocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    If anything, if you were selling an Webos phone to a user, I would not mention anything about Palm's open market, that is a detraction.
    I agree that that is not of universal interest. Neither is voice dialing. I'm sure there are people out there who like that feature and use it. I know 0 people who do beyond trying it out once.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Don't blow air, put up your version of the chart, otherwise all we see is smoke.
    My point is - that chart is an arbitrary selection of features.
    It would be easy to do another selection of features to try to make any particular Phone/Platform look better or worse.
    I provided examples for how that could be done.

    I'm not out to convince anybody that current webos phones are the best phones ever. The Pre was and still is the best smartphone for my preferences.
    And I sure would like some things improved upon (longer battery life, more BT profiles, etc...). But all other phones have issues too.

    Other people - with other preferences - will prefer other phones - and that's fine with me.

    All I'm saying is that this chart is arbitrary.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    True. But neither is flash or multitasking.



    I agree that more MP is misinterpreted as being always better. Just like more MB RAM will always look better.
    1 GB of RAM is utterly useless as long as people won't even fully use 512 MB - but even on this forum, where people have access to infos that say otherwise, people whine when the next Pre doesn't have at least 1 GB of RAM.

    Proof that more camera MP suffers from diminishing returns and eventually makes the camera worse?
    We can't compare picture printouts but the following should be enough to proof my point:
    1) More MP needs more space for storage - agreed?
    2) More MP will (for a given CPU) need more time to compress the picture - agreed?
    In that regard any increase in MP - by itself - is bad.

    OTOH:
    3) A resolution of 10x10 pixels would be horribly blocky and way too low.
    In that regard higher resolution makes for better, more fine-grained, pictures.

    But unlike the price we pay in CPU activity and storage space (and therefore snapshot speed) there is a limit to how much better resolution will profit us.
    At some point the picture resolution gets better than what our eyes can recognize or the print technology can handle. Agreed?

    So - there is obviously a sweet spot range where we get optimal resolution at lowest cost in speed, storage and price - agreed?

    So - all we have left to debate is at what point we leave that range and get into useless waste territory.

    If you can make use of 8, 10, 12 or 256 MP - fine. Then the added storage, price and loss of speed (or additional CPU/battery requirements) will be worth it for you.
    Professional photographers who need extra resolution for later editing will have higher MP needs than the rest of us.
    For me that range is between 3 and 5 MP. A phone that otherwise have eeverything that I want and as a 3 MP camera is fine with me. If it has a 4 or 5 MP camera - meh - might be nice to have some extra resolution. 2 MP would probably have been enough for most snapshots and what I do with them.
    Beyond that and I'm getting more worried that taking a snapshot will take too long. What I liked about the Pres camera right away is the speed with which it takes snapshots. Most cameras/phones in my experience are slower.
    I consider a 8 MP camera a drawback.



    Sure we can have different opinions. But I take that from Android users who compared Android with Pre. That webos has the best notifications seems widespread opinion to me. But I have no problem with an Android user who thinks otherwise. Personal preferences.
    I was just listing stuff that could just as easily listed in a chart next to widely unused features like voice dialing or text commands.



    Fine - but if we only talk hardware - then what is flash, voice dialing or text commands doing in that chart? None of those are hardware features. Given that all phones have a microphone all these are entirely software features.

    I agree that an open market is not very important to many people. But it is important to me and some other (minority) percentage.
    But voice dialing is in that chart - and it is also a minority interest. I'm sure it's as important to some people as an open market is to me - but I couldn't care less.

    That's my whole point. Smartphones can have a long list of features. Some more popular than others but we all have our specific mix of preferences.
    That chart is incomplete and reflects the views of the author. That's fine for his preferences - but is still arbitrary.

    A 4" screen that is great for somebody who is looking for a video and browsing machine that s/he can occasionally phone with and will carry in a purse/bag. It would be annoying big for me and not fit into my pocket.



    I agree that that is not of universal interest. Neither is voice dialing. I'm sure there are people out there who like that feature and use it. I know 0 people who do beyond trying it out once.



    My point is - that chart is an arbitrary selection of features.
    It would be easy to do another selection of features to try to make any particular Phone/Platform look better or worse.
    I provided examples for how that could be done.

    I'm not out to convince anybody that current webos phones are the best phones ever. The Pre was and still is the best smartphone for my preferences.
    And I sure would like some things improved upon (longer battery life, more BT profiles, etc...). But all other phones have issues too.

    Other people - with other preferences - will prefer other phones - and that's fine with me.

    All I'm saying is that this chart is arbitrary.
    OK, Understood.
  4. #84  

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    My point is - that chart is an arbitrary selection of features.
    It would be easy to do another selection of features to try to make any particular Phone/Platform look better or worse...
    The chart is comparing basic features that are advertised in TV commercials. The point of those ads is to get a soccer mom in the store asking for these features.

    The sales rep is supposed to say the ad feature as a benefit to the customer like this:
    • Screen size (featured by everyone but Palm, "First is big")
    -- Sales rep: "The big screen makes the Internet, photos, and videos easier to see."
    • Resolution ("First is High Def", Retina display hammered on by Apple)
    -- Sales rep: "The high resolution makes your photos just pop off the screen."
    • CPU Speed ("First is fast", Droid ads are all about speed)
    -- Sales rep: "Facebook, Google Maps, and everything else pops up."
    • Camera features (res, focus and zoom in EVO and Samsung commercials)
    -- Sales rep: "High Def, zoom, and auto-focus make this your everyday camera."
    • Front Camera (featured in HTC, Epic & iPhone commercials)
    • Video Chat (featured in iPhone and now T-Mobile commercials)
    -- Sales rep: "Now you can video chat with friends and family..."
    • HD Out (featured in EVO and Epic commercials)
    -- Sales rep: "Play YouTube and your HD movies on your TV."
    • Flash (featured in new EVO ads)
    -- Sales rep: "Now you can see everything on the internet."
    • FM (featured in iPhone ads)
    -- Sales rep: "You can even listen to FM right from your phone."
    • 4G (featured in EVO and Epic ads)
    -- Sales rep: "4G let's you download HD movies and photos fast."
    • Voice Commands and Voice dialing (featured by iPhone in 2009 ads)
    -- Sales rep: "Just say it and it does it. You can't legally text in the car."
    • Apps available (Apple pounds away at this constantly)
    -- Sales rep: "There's an app for that."

    So what are the other features in TV ads that can be simply stated as benefits for a soccer mom? The only one that no one talks about is Text Commands (Just Type) because that is from 2008 so maybe that should come off?

    Tholap, would you show us your chart of the features in the TV ads?
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 11/05/2010 at 08:11 PM.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Fine - but if we only talk hardware - then what is flash, voice dialing or text commands doing in that chart? None of those are hardware features. Given that all phones have a microphone all these are entirely software features.

    I agree that an open market is not very important to many people. But it is important to me and some other (minority) percentage.
    But voice dialing is in that chart - and it is also a minority interest. I'm sure it's as important to some people as an open market is to me - but I couldn't care less.


    That's my whole point. Smartphones can have a long list of features. Some more popular than others but we all have our specific mix of preferences.
    That chart is incomplete and reflects the views of the author. That's fine for his preferences - but is still arbitrary.

    A 4" screen that is great for somebody who is looking for a video and browsing machine that s/he can occasionally phone with and will carry in a purse/bag. It would be annoying big for me and not fit into my pocket.
    Thats the same point I have been trying to make. The features being listed are not what I care about. Most (I blieve it was Oddball who actually gave a good list of features WebOS doesn't have available to it) are features that -- yes some care about (maybe a lot, I haven't done a poll) -- are just features I never use. Take voice control. I use to love voice control. Until it started to hinder my use of the phone. Maybe it's the way I talk -- I do have a southern accent now -- or maybe the software just hasn't been perfected, I don't know. I haven't used Android's voice control -- so I hold judgment on that until I get to -- but everything that's voice control has it's flaws and will end up hindering me in using the product in question. Including, btw, GOOG 411. There were times I would actually google a business because GOOG 411 couldn't figure out what I was trying to say.

    But I am sure there are features I enjoy and love that others wont. It's all what they want. Say, the screen feature. I want a large screen for my next phone and I know others -- like yourself -- want a smaller form factor.

    Anyway, I agree with you!
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