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  1. #61  
    I just deleted the name-calling. Talk about smartphones is great. Talk about each other is not.

    Let's get back to the Opening Post question: "Why is the hardware on these other phones such much better than the Pre 2?"

    I think that the real answer is that hardware does not matter. We care about specs because we are phone nerds, about 2% of the market. Real people do not want to hear our specs. Their eyes glaze over.

    Real customers only care if the phone has the features that they want. Will it be good as a camera, GPS, iPod, video chat, etc.

    Last edited by milominderbinder; 11/04/2010 at 09:17 PM.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    I just deleted the name-calling. Talk about smartphones is great. Talk about each other is not.

    Let's get back to the Opening Post question: "Why is the hardware on these other phones such much better than the Pre 2?"

    I think that the real answer is that hardware does not matter. We care about specs because we are phone nerds, about 2% of the market. Real people do not want to hear our specs. Their eyes glaze over.

    Real customers only care if the phone has the features that they want. Will it be good as a camera, GPS, iPod, video chat, etc.

    I agree but let's remember:
    Great specs leads to more features
  3. #63  
    please correct: pre 2 has flash support.
    since when did apple acquire flash support, other than through third party software?
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    please correct: pre 2 has flash support.
    since when did apple acquire flash support, other than through third party software?
    Exactly! And is it I who did name calling? I sorry! I meant no offense!
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    please correct: pre 2 has flash support.
    since when did apple acquire flash support, other than through third party software?
    Even better - Flash will come to all Pre versions (Pre, plus and 2) via webos 2.0.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  6. #66  
    Re Feature table with arbitrary selection of features:
    IPhone has no flash support. According to Steve Jobs it never will have Flsh support. Webos will/has (SFR only atm).

    Inductive charging: Yes for Palm, no for everybody else
    Multitasking: Yes for Palm and Android, very restricted on IPhone
    Trouble free homebrew support (jailbreaking): Yes for Palm, no for the rest.

    Please explain in what way 8 MP is better than 5. In practice I'll argue that 8 is worse than 5 - no joke.

    Notifications are handled better in webos than Android or IPhone.

    Open market: Yes for Palm, yes for Android, no for IPhone.

    The table mentions SD card GB - but not built in storage. To most people wont matter if the 8 or 16 GB is built in or on an SD card that they will never remove. I'm not saying the option doesn't have value (for the few who want to make use of that) - but listing SD storage without listing inbuilt storage is misleading. But misleading fits the whole table.
    Some points are very valid. But overall the table is an arbitrary sub-selection. It would be fairly easy to make a table with a different sub-selection that makes the Pre look better than the others.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Re Feature table with arbitrary selection of features:
    IPhone has no flash support. According to Steve Jobs it never will have Flsh support. Webos will/has (SFR only atm). Many analysts agree that Flash is going to be extinct pretty soon and Steve Jobs has pretty much said he will stop at nothing to assist in that

    Inductive charging: Yes for Palm, no for everybody elseYou can buy a powermat
    Multitasking: Yes for Palm and Android, very restricted on IPhonedidnt the new IOS update add multitasking? I'll admit I don't follow every aspect of IOS
    Trouble free homebrew support (jailbreaking): Yes for Palm, no for the rest.Huh? Android...rooting....huge community...

    Please explain in what way 8 MP is better than 5. In practice I'll argue that 8 is worse than 5 - no joke.Pixels aren't as big of a deal as the other functions of the camera. But its a selling point

    Notifications are handled better in webos than Android or IPhone.nothing but opinion

    Open market: Yes for Palm, yes for Android, no for IPhone.and yet their market is huge so does it matter?

    The table mentions SD card GB - but not built in storage. To most people wont matter if the 8 or 16 GB is built in or on an SD card that they will never remove. I'm not saying the option doesn't have value (for the few who want to make use of that) - but listing SD storage without listing inbuilt storage is misleading. But misleading fits the whole table.I would rather have 1GB ROM and the ability to have any size SD card that is easily transferable than what the iPhone and Webos offer anyday.
    Response in blue.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Response in blue.
    My only responses are this ...

    Can you show me where someone actually thinks Flash is going to be "extinct"? I haven't heard that. And multitasking on the iPhone/iPod is not very fluid in my opinion. I had iOS 4 for months and never knew I could multi task on it. I accidently hit the home button twice one day and I saw something new. Now I use it all the time, but I can't help but notice how easy it is on WebOS. I don't have to think about it, just tap the gesture area and bam! multitasking in progress. Thats my big gripe on iOS 4 multitasking.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    My only responses are this ...

    Can you show me where someone actually thinks Flash is going to be "extinct"? I haven't heard that. And multitasking on the iPhone/iPod is not very fluid in my opinion. I had iOS 4 for months and never knew I could multi task on it. I accidently hit the home button twice one day and I saw something new. Now I use it all the time, but I can't help but notice how easy it is on WebOS. I don't have to think about it, just tap the gesture area and bam! multitasking in progress. Thats my big gripe on iOS 4 multitasking.
    Fair enough.

    When it comes to the comment on flash...
    It's actually been discussed quite a few times in the "flash anticipation" thread.
    As well as different comments on different articles I've read.

    Per my understanding...html5 will pretty much make it obsolete.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    I just deleted the name-calling. Talk about smartphones is great. Talk about each other is not.

    Let's get back to the Opening Post question: "Why is the hardware on these other phones such much better than the Pre 2?"

    I think that the real answer is that hardware does not matter. We care about specs because we are phone nerds, about 2% of the market. Real people do not want to hear our specs. Their eyes glaze over.

    Real customers only care if the phone has the features that they want. Will it be good as a camera, GPS, iPod, video chat, etc.

    nice chart. well done.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Fair enough.

    When it comes to the comment on flash...
    It's actually been discussed quite a few times in the "flash anticipation" thread.
    As well as different comments on different articles I've read.

    Per my understanding...html5 will pretty much make it obsolete.
    Hmm I'll look into that!
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    The Pre or Pre 2? We don't have the Pre 2, do we don't know how they will advertise it yet.



    Smaller the screen the better the image. Look at a small 720p HDTV (20 inch) and compare it to a full 1080p 47 inch. A lot of the times (I admit, not always) the 720p looks just as good as the larger 1080p. Same with the Pre. Will it make a difference? Yes, of course, but it won't be worth the price it would add. Screen res is not a gimmick but on smaller screen I don't see the reason to pay the extra penny for it. Maybe it's just me, but I never said it's your opinion.
    You're trying too hard to justify a smaller screen AND resolution. There are too many factors when trying to compare a 720p image on a 20 inch screen to a 1080p image on a 47 inch screen. You have to factor in brand/model/technology used, distance to the screen, compression (remember HD lite?) etc... Watch a 1080p BluRay movie on my 73 inch Mitsu and it's absolutely stunning and sharp, from 7-8 feet away which is the minimum distance you should be watching on that size set anyway.

    Again, if you are happy with lower resolution fine. Most people are not and thats who HP will market to.


    Thats my point. I don't even care if it has a compass I didn't even know. I get emails about WebOS, EVO, iPhone every day. I subscribe to Google News Alerts. I read, daily, all the news about those phones (well, not EVO anymore, but Android in general). But the fact that I would have to LOOK it up tells me I don't care about a compass being in the phone. Again, sure, it's my opinion.
    You're focusing too hard on just the compass when there are so many other things the Android line does. (FYI, i'll jump ship from Android if someone else comes along and produces a better handset which, right now, isn't happening) I harbor zero loyalty to a handset manufacturer.

    I would actually like that list, and I believe the OP would too. He was asking why the Pre 2 is not as good as DRIOD X. So far, all we got is larger screen, better res, compass. So why is the Pre 2 not as good as the others? (I do know about the PUSH email that Blackberry has, considering I actually have a Curve myself).
    Still stuck on the compass thing I see.

    Ok, i'll rattle off a few off the top of my head.

    A: Voice dialing
    B: Voice search (integrated with google maps)
    C: 4G
    D: Apps apps apps ( highly useful apps too) I'm not talking about fart apps.
    E: hardware
    F: non-fixed focus camera (Yes, Virginia, I like being able to zoom in a bit.
    G: dual LCD lights for the flash (we take pics in low light conditions sometimes)
    H: integration of Google apps into the O/S (see my voice search comment)
    I: Form factor (slabs are it now, and to dispute that shows you are just being stubborn)
    J: marketing (Palm screwed the pooch in their marketing and Sprint did so too by accepting it)
    K: fit and finish. (I'll repeat this if necessary: It does NOT matter if you produce a new handset made of the most impervious materials known to man. If you produced a previous handset that fell apart when you looked at it wrong people will avoid it like the plague
    L: MS Exchange just....worked....without...any...drama and STILL works to this day.
    M: removable, expandable storage. ( I can't reiterate this enough)
    O: Front and rear camera. (Yes people do like this feature)
    Thats a tiny list.


    Thats the point of what I replied to you. CES 2011 will either prove your right, apparently, since you believe HP doesn't care about Palm's hardware. Or it will prove your wrong. If they don't show the form factors we know they are making, or they show them and they are found lacking -- like, apparently, the Pre 2 does -- then your proven correct. If they show multiple form factors, all with duel processors, 4G (WiMAX and LTE), big and small screens, full keyboards and no keyboard phones, then your proven incorrect. I neither agreed nor disagreed with your comment and technically, I still am not. Just making a point that ... yes, we need to all look towards CES 2011 to see if HP cares about Palm's hardware (I don't say Pre because I am not sure if they are keeping that brand name, they might choose to rename it -- which I wouldn't care either way).



    I have said this for a long time. If you pit the original Pre against the iPhone -- which they did -- it wouldn't succeed. Why? Because the iPhone is a different kind of phone. The Pre -- if you actually go back and listen to how they described it in 2009 -- was designed to replaced the need to have a Blackberry and an iPhone, which many ppl did. BB as their business phone and iPhone for their personal life (of course, now, the iPhone IS a good business phone). They even said exactly that, if you go back and read/listen to all the interviews. Same with the Pre 2. The Pre 2 is amazing compared to the Blackberry Torch. WebOS is leagues ahead of BB OS 6.0. Sure, BB has PUSH email, but I don't see many other enhancements BB has compared to the Pre. However, the Pre 2's keyboard looks to be another soar spot. They really need a larger keyboard (although I actually liked the Pre keyboard, and the Pixi, but thats just me).

    EDIT: Also, why does HP have to create only Super Phones? Why can't they create smaller, cheaper, entry level smartphones -- like the Pre 2 and Pixi -- and make a "Pre HD" down the road, that has everything you want? Why only cater to one group of people?
    Right but the original Pre was going head to head with the G1 at the time. Ancient history in the handset world. The 3GS had twice the storage capacity as the current Pre (the one that matters most as that was the original Pre). The Pre2 finally caught up but even then the iphone can be had with up to 32gb of storage. I have 16 in my EVO.

    I agree, the O/S is damn good, probably the best out there but we're debating this in the context of people who give a damn about the mobile O/S they use. The remaining 99.9% of the user base does not care.

    They go; "Oh look, it can do this, this and that and all those other things? Cool!" They don't care if the O/S or hardware can be overclocked, modified, rooted, etc... This is difficult for nerds like us to get away from. The people that actually make up the bulk of the revenue just do NOT care about the intricacies of their handsets and HP et al market to them. Are these folks that tinker and break and discover important? Absolutely. They provide fodder for patching these things and fixing inherent little problems.

    You're writing as if you know what HP will do. If so, please share it with us. However, thats HP call as to whether they wish to make a foray into the not-so-smart handset world.


    When did I say hardware doesn't matter? It does. The Pre didn't sell well, one reason, because of it's hardware. Sprint employees would not recommend a Pre to you because it gives them so many problems with getting broken. The keyboard was a deal breaker for many Blackberry fans, even if they wanted a Pre. And, apparently, many people don't want the Pre 2 because the hardware doesn't compare.

    But I look at the iPhone, and it had a 1GHz processor. It has 512mb ram. And thats what the Pre 2 has. Sure, the res is better, the screen is bigger. But HP has not actually said they aren't providing that, in fact haven't they actually said (of course, over Twitter) that they are making multiple form factors? Nothing official, but since they haven't shown us either way it's kinda premature to say they don't care about Palm's hardware. The Pre 2, it seems to me, is a phone that is being released maybe to make money, maybe to smooth over fans? Who knows what their thought process was on it. And you can't say people don't want the Pre 2 -- the Sprint Rep @ Dan@sprint.com (I also emailed and she called me) said that they were really surprised that so many people have written in about the Pre 2 not being released and that Sprint IS paying attention. The fact that so many people are writing in -- and just look at the topics here -- proves people DO LIKE the smaller screen. So why should they NOT release it? Maybe the timing was off, but it's quite possible that Palm DOESN'T have a working "superphone" yet that HP wants to show off. Maybe they want to give it two more months of tweaking before showing it off to the world. The iPhone didn't take 5 months to make. It tooks 2-3 years to design and go through changes. Palm is a good software company but when it comes to hardware, they don't seem to be the best. I bet HP walked in, saw what the c40 was (whatever it was) and said, "Not good enough. Make it better. Here's some idea's." And heck, how do we know? We haven't even seen what HP is doing for next year. I could be wrong, sure, but then again so could you.
    You've launched into wild speculation interlaced with "what if's" and "maybe's".
    I'd say it's fair to assume every single handset was designed to make a company money.
    You're doing what is common to those that latch on too tightly to a product; Evangelizing and you're arguing from a position more akin to emotion rather than reasoning.

    So, how many actually wrote in? When you sell, say, 1 million handsets and 2000 people write in to proclaim their love for a new and exciting handset that works out to .2% of their market, as an example. Most rational companies wouldn't bother to capitulate and do what that .2% wanted them to do. I'd love it if they did but that's not going to happen. So, how can you honestly say "people" do like small screens? How many people is "people"?


    So why do you think that Palm actually has an iPhone like device ready to be seen and sold? HP hasn't owned Palm for a year. Didn't it take place in June or July? Again, CES 2011. Lets see what happens.



    I completely agree that HP hasn't shown any indication they don't care about Palm's hardware. Yet I also agree they haven't not shown us that. Lets wait and let them tell us what they think. At some point, it will be apparent.

    And I too believe the WebOS platform is by far one of the best mobile OS's out there. It's not perfect, I give you that. But it allows you to work more freely and it has more of a flow. They can add many features to it, and I believe WebOS 2.0 shows that they are clearly evolving WebOS into a better OS.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, doesn't the Pre have PUSH email? I think I was confusing info from my friend who said it doesn't with actual info. I do apologize if I was incorrect about that feature not being in WebOS.
    Dunno, I don't really care what HP thinks unless I am in the market for a device they produce. But you were wildly speculating above then changed to asking me what HP is considering. Not sure why.

    All the talk here has been about HP releasing a Pre2 with certain new specs. In this business waiting and waiting and waiting will set you back to the point where you won't be able to catch up.

    Of course WebOS is evolving. Why shouldn't it? HP didn't buy Palm for it's hardware. They wanted the O/S and they got it.

    I want to see HP succeed with the WebOS platform and develop it into different things. And of course you can't always judge the quality of a product by it's sales, or lack thereof. But HP is way behind in the handset wars (in reality they haven't even jumped in yet) and I'm not so sure they want to catch up in that regard. So yeah, time will tell just like it will for everything.
    Last edited by Odd-Ball; 11/01/2010 at 09:20 AM.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    ...Pre 2 supports flash. Check your facts (technically, so will the Pre. Pixi no). And the iPhone does not have Flash support. Just google Apple vs Adobe and I am sure you will see that as being true...
    Thanks!

    Here is the corrected chart:

  14. #74  
    @Odd-Ball VERY good post. Thank you.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    You're trying too hard to justify a smaller screen AND resolution. There are too many factors when trying to compare a 720p image on a 20 inch screen to a 1080p image on a 47 inch screen. You have to factor in brand/model/technology used, distance to the screen, compression (remember HD lite?) etc... Watch a 1080p BluRay movie on my 73 inch Mitsu and it's absolutely stunning and sharp, from 7-8 feet away which is the minimum distance you should be watching on that size set anyway.
    So, are you honestly saying that pixel dinsity does not matter, that a picture can look good on a small screen then when blown up to a bigger screen, it wouldn't? Take the DS for example. It can push out some good graphics on its little screen, but put it on a 72 inch screen and it would look ancient. I have a 42 inch screen, with 1080p, and a blu ray and it does look amazing. Never said it doesn't. Just saying smaller screens why pay the extra penny for something you can barely notice the difference.

    Again, if you are happy with lower resolution fine. Most people are not and thats who HP will market to.
    Actually, I am in the crowd who want a larger screen -- aka, it's easier to surf the web. I do like the overall design of the Pre, just would like a larger screen. 3.5 inch -- like the first iPhone (and my iPod Touch) would be fine for me.

    You're focusing too hard on just the compass when there are so many other things the Android line does. (FYI, i'll jump ship from Android if someone else comes along and produces a better handset which, right now, isn't happening) I harbor zero loyalty to a handset manufacturer.
    Yes, I am stuck on the compass and I guess your going to say I am again. Why? Because in your post I was replying to, it seems you didn't give me a list of features. In fact, with this new post of yours -- it seems your the first person to actually do so. So, I applaud you for actually giving what the OP actually wanted. And no, thats not suppose to be sarcastic. But it does sound that way!

    Still stuck on the compass thing I see.

    Ok, i'll rattle off a few off the top of my head.

    A: Voice dialing
    B: Voice search (integrated with google maps)
    C: 4G
    D: Apps apps apps ( highly useful apps too) I'm not talking about fart apps.
    E: hardware
    F: non-fixed focus camera (Yes, Virginia, I like being able to zoom in a bit.
    G: dual LCD lights for the flash (we take pics in low light conditions sometimes)
    H: integration of Google apps into the O/S (see my voice search comment)
    I: Form factor (slabs are it now, and to dispute that shows you are just being stubborn)
    J: marketing (Palm screwed the pooch in their marketing and Sprint did so too by accepting it)
    K: fit and finish. (I'll repeat this if necessary: It does NOT matter if you produce a new handset made of the most impervious materials known to man. If you produced a previous handset that fell apart when you looked at it wrong people will avoid it like the plague
    L: MS Exchange just....worked....without...any...drama and STILL works to this day.
    M: removable, expandable storage. ( I can't reiterate this enough)
    O: Front and rear camera. (Yes people do like this feature)
    Thats a tiny list.
    Thanks! I didn't know there was a problem with MS Exchange, and the camera issues I was aware but these are things I generally don't care about. And with the form factors -- I agree! Why should there be one form factor? But, I bet you if the Pre was a 4 inch phone there would be people complaning about the form factor. So, now I ask -- why should there only be one form factor? Why can't they have a small phone, and a large screen phone? I don't know what HP will be doing, but I am willing to wait till CES 2011 to see what they do have in store for us.

    EDIT: OK, I was at work and was late coming back from my break, so I did this whole post quickly. Here is a further response:

    I don't think I ever said that slabs are not in. What I actually said is simple: Why have one form factor? I never got that. Why do you assume everyone in the world wants a 4 inch screen? I know many people who don't want the EVO because it's to larger for them, same with the Epic. And you know what? I know many people who want the Evo and the Epic because of the screen. And, to be fair, Samsung actually DOES have smaller screen phones! And if I am not mistaken, so does HTC. And Motorolla even has small screen phones. Apple does not. But then again, they are Apple. So why does HP/Palm have to only have one form factor? Why can't they have simple, amazing phones -- and then big phones for people like you and me? Why does everything revolve around you and me?

    You've launched into wild speculation interlaced with "what if's" and "maybe's".
    I'd say it's fair to assume every single handset was designed to make a company money.
    You're doing what is common to those that latch on too tightly to a product; Evangelizing and you're arguing from a position more akin to emotion rather than reasoning.
    Um, well, yes it is all maybes and what ifs. Why? Because HP hasn't had time to actually show us what they will do. I don't expect a good, new form factor to come out in a couple of months. 6 months at least, and thats only to show. One year, at least, to actually get working.

    So, how many actually wrote in? When you sell, say, 1 million handsets and 2000 people write in to proclaim their love for a new and exciting handset that works out to .2% of their market, as an example. Most rational companies wouldn't bother to capitulate and do what that .2% wanted them to do. I'd love it if they did but that's not going to happen. So, how can you honestly say "people" do like small screens? How many people is "people"?
    Call and ask Sprint. All I was told is they were surprised by how many people called in.


    I want to see HP succeed with the WebOS platform and develop it into different things. And of course you can't always judge the quality of a product by it's sales, or lack thereof. But HP is way behind in the handset wars (in reality they haven't even jumped in yet) and I'm not so sure they want to catch up in that regard. So yeah, time will tell just like it will for everything.
    Exactly, time will tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Thanks!

    Here is the corrected chart:

    And no problem man!
    Last edited by astraith; 11/01/2010 at 09:03 PM.
  16. cgk
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    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by DumbPreCommenter View Post

    At the very least, it should be tremendously appealing to "enterprise consumers" that likely favor high-productivity/mobility/enterprise-class-security to pocket-bulging-screen-sizes/HD-video-capture/TV-output.
    Ah - so it's 'Enterprise consumers' who will save the day now the fat middle is not interested.

    OK, so let's say they pass over on a BB and then an iphone (big hit with enterprise consumers).

    "So I want a phone that does office - is this pre thing it?"

    "Well sir, the Pre does have quickoffice on it"

    "Which one has MS office on it?"

    "That would be a Windows 7 phone, it has native office on it, sharepoint integration and outlook"

    "show me that one".

    Seriously, this is the worse time to try and appeal to the 'enterprise customer', all people (who have passed on BB and iphone and then android) will see is that Windows phone 7 runs native MS apps.
  17. #77  
    ]

    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    So, are you honestly saying that pixel dinsity does not matter, that a picture can look good on a small screen then when blown up to a bigger screen, it wouldn't? Take the DS for example. It can push out some good graphics on its little screen, but put it on a 72 inch screen and it would look ancient. I have a 42 inch screen, with 1080p, and a blu ray and it does look amazing. Never said it doesn't. Just saying smaller screens why pay the extra penny for something you can barely notice the difference.



    Actually, I am in the crowd who want a larger screen -- aka, it's easier to surf the web. I do like the overall design of the Pre, just would like a larger screen. 3.5 inch -- like the first iPhone (and my iPod Touch) would be fine for me.
    No, I didn't say that. Again, a 1920x1080 image is always of a higher resolution than a 1280x720. Period.

    But does the Pre have higher PPI than the Evo? The Evo has 800X480 and the Pre 480X320. And regardless, you're now claiming you want a larger screen. If you upscale the image size and don't maintain the same PPI, of course you won't have the exact same resolution.


    Yes, I am stuck on the compass and I guess your going to say I am again. Why? Because in your post I was replying to, it seems you didn't give me a list of features. In fact, with this new post of yours -- it seems your the first person to actually do so. So, I applaud you for actually giving what the OP actually wanted. And no, thats not suppose to be sarcastic. But it does sound that way!



    Thanks! I didn't know there was a problem with MS Exchange, and the camera issues I was aware but these are things I generally don't care about. And with the form factors -- I agree! Why should there be one form factor? But, I bet you if the Pre was a 4 inch phone there would be people complaning about the form factor. So, now I ask -- why should there only be one form factor? Why can't they have a small phone, and a large screen phone? I don't know what HP will be doing, but I am willing to wait till CES 2011 to see what they do have in store for us.
    You were the one that stated you read up on all the major handsets, not the Android line anymore, which indicates you're at least aware of the Evo's feature set.

    I didn't say there should be one form factor. I stated the slab IS the defacto standard now. The big players all have highly successful slabs. The clamshell design of the Pre doesn't have the same success.


    Um, well, yes it is all maybes and what ifs. Why? Because HP hasn't had time to actually show us what they will do. I don't expect a good, new form factor to come out in a couple of months. 6 months at least, and thats only to show. One year, at least, to actually get working.



    Call and ask Sprint. All I was told is they were surprised by how many people called in.




    Exactly, time will tell.
    Sure, HP might do a big handset, they might not and it doesn't matter to me because I didn't lay awake at night wondering if the Pre, or the Evo or any of the other 2 dozen handsets i've had would have any particular features.

    Honestly, you're the one that mentioned Sprint got many responses regarding the Pre. It would really be up to you to support your argument not me.

    No matter to me really as I already stated I don't care what they do. I'm an Android user now and the surest test, the one that matters to me most is time with the handsets. I've had both, required them to at least make a call every time and the Pre failed to do that.


    I'm not going to speculate on what HP will do with Palm. We know they bought them for WebOS. What else they choose to do will be learned eventually.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Hmm....

    -Multitasking, which knock TMC all you like ( occurs 90% of time due to poorly built apps and starting 3D games) just doesn't happen when running the stock apps and for a business user, will not have fart apps, games, and social networking filling their phone. iOS and Android just can't keep up. (I wish there was a way for me to wear a spy cam into my meetings and capture the frustration on the faces of the iOS and Android users as I beat them to needed info every time. It's priceless and really makes my day.)
    -Synergy perhaps? MANY professional people network and interact through LinkedIn (and more through FB these days) so having access to those contacts automatically is a winner.
    -EAS push email as fast (or faster in many cases) than BES\BIS email.
    -Multiple Exchange accounts synced flawlessly (which iOS couldn't do until recently and why jebusPhone was no-fly in my F500 organization.)

    And that's just to start so...
    Your experience. Mileage may vary. In my place of work, people are very capable with their devices. Of course I can't compare the Palm device because they don't exist in my environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Hmm except that logic (and evidence) flies in the face of your FUD. Go ahead and Google "Palm Pre 2" and see how many hits you get back. I'll save you some time... 26,000,000+

    Now as a comparison google the new "HTC HD 7" super phone and how many hits? 23,000,000

    What's this?? MORE people/pages are talking about the Pre2 than the NEW WP7 movie theater screen "super phone" from HTC? How can this be?
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Does google hits translate into sales? Are all of those hit of people actually buying the product? The Palm Pre had an enormous hit count leading up to June '09. What happened?

    What happened? Human nature. People always stop to watch a car wreck.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Ah - so it's 'Enterprise consumers' who will save the day now the fat middle is not interested.

    OK, so let's say they pass over on a BB and then an iphone (big hit with enterprise consumers).

    "So I want a phone that does office - is this pre thing it?"

    "Well sir, the Pre does have quickoffice on it"

    "Which one has MS office on it?"

    "That would be a Windows 7 phone, it has native office on it, sharepoint integration and outlook"

    "show me that one".

    Seriously, this is the worse time to try and appeal to the 'enterprise customer', all people (who have passed on BB and iphone and then android) will see is that Windows phone 7 runs native MS apps.
    Thats very true. Windows Phone 7 just became one step more useful! (LOL JK I think WP7 is very good actually, just not for me!).
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Re Feature table with arbitrary selection of features:
    IPhone has no flash support. According to Steve Jobs it never will have Flsh support. Webos will/has (SFR only atm).
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Inductive charging: Yes for Palm, no for everybody else
    A feature yes, but not sure how this translate to making the phone hardware better. The phone hardware itself is still sub par.

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Multitasking: Yes for Palm and Android, very restricted on IPhone
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Trouble free homebrew support (jailbreaking): Yes for Palm, no for the rest.
    How exactly would a carrier use homebrew as selling point? This is not a hardware feature

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Please explain in what way 8 MP is better than 5. In practice I'll argue that 8 is worse than 5 - no joke.
    Proof of your statement? Otherwise this is seen as a better feature by consumers.

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Notifications are handled better in webos than Android or IPhone.
    On iPhone yes, on Android you'd can have a different opinion from an Anbdroid fan. Is this something that is provable to a user comparing Android to Pre 2? If not than it can't be considered a feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Open market: Yes for Palm, yes for Android, no for IPhone.
    Open market does not have anything to do with why people say Iphone/droid/galaxy hardware is better. If anything, if you were selling an Webos phone to a user, I would not mention anything about Palm's open market, that is a detraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    The table mentions SD card GB - but not built in storage. To most people wont matter if the 8 or 16 GB is built in or on an SD card that they will never remove. I'm not saying the option doesn't have value (for the few who want to make use of that) - but listing SD storage without listing inbuilt storage is misleading. But misleading fits the whole table.
    Some points are very valid. But overall the table is an arbitrary sub-selection. It would be fairly easy to make a table with a different sub-selection that makes the Pre look better than the others.
    Don't blow air, put up your version of the chart, otherwise all we see is smoke.
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