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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    WebOS 2.0 is out in the wild on the Pre 2 but it's like nobody even noticed.
    Hmm except that logic (and evidence) flies in the face of your FUD. Go ahead and Google "Palm Pre 2" and see how many hits you get back. I'll save you some time... 26,000,000+

    Now as a comparison google the new "HTC HD 7" super phone and how many hits? 23,000,000

    What's this?? MORE people/pages are talking about the Pre2 than the NEW WP7 movie theater screen "super phone" from HTC? How can this be?

  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Yeah, VZ isn's pushing Droid X over Fascinate. Uh-huh...

    http://tinyurl.com/2wtw8wu
    Wow...another anecdote. I guess that means it's true for everybody everywhere. Again, Verizon sold the Pre Plus as free with a pack of toaster pastries and gave away a free mobile hotspot with it. It. Still. Failed.

    Meanwhile, Samsung has sold several million Galaxy S phones in America in roughly one quarter, and is putting its second one on Verizon along with a range of tablets across all carriers. Worldwide, the Galaxy S series has already lapped WebOS (i.e. doubled the sales base) in one/third of the time that the Pre and Pixi devices - in their various forms - have been on the market.

    That's what success looks like.

    And remember 4.9% of the market (admittedly small, for now) is using a webOS device. Those 2.6mil phones didn't just materialize.

    Oh and the Pre had Sprints launch sales record at the time...
    More estimates. The last confirmed sales numbers from Palm were more around the 1.4 million sales range across all territories total. That was March.

    As for Pre on Sprint....you only need to look at how indifferent Sprint was toward the Pre Plus and Pre 2 to see how much of a success WebOS is. Palm actually told customers to beg Sprint to carry their devices. How sad is that?
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Hmm except that logic (and evidence) flies in the face of your FUD. Go ahead and Google "Palm Pre 2" and see how many hits you get back. I'll save you some time... 26,000,000+

    Now as a comparison google the new "HTC HD 7" super phone and how many hits? 23,000,000

    What's this?? MORE people/pages are talking about the Pre2 than the NEW WP7 movie theater screen "super phone" from HTC? How can this be?

    And it's got more hits than Galaxy S too! The evidence has spoken. Riiiiiight.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Oh and the Pre had Sprints launch sales record at the time...
    It likely also had Sprints record on number of returns at the time...
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Hmm except that logic (and evidence) flies in the face of your FUD. Go ahead and Google "Palm Pre 2" and see how many hits you get back. I'll save you some time... 26,000,000+

    Now as a comparison google the new "HTC HD 7" super phone and how many hits? 23,000,000

    What's this?? MORE people/pages are talking about the Pre2 than the NEW WP7 movie theater screen "super phone" from HTC? How can this be?

    Does google hits translate into sales? Are all of those hit of people actually buying the product? The Palm Pre had an enormous hit count leading up to June '09. What happened?
  6. #46  
    people again being narrow and closed minded on the pre.

    no one here is arguing that the original pre or pixi didn't have issues. The plus versions were definitely much better than the originals, but didn't sell all that well, mainly because of the problems with the original, the total lack of effective advertising by vzw, palm, and att, and, because of competition from devices that were already more successful due to their resources, app numbers, and advertising.

    the place palm was probably most
    successful with the plus versions, and I confirmed this with my own discussions with customer service and sales reps, is with previous treo/centro/palm OS users. "we noticed that long term palm customers tend to be loyal to palm and really like the pre plus. Maybe your wife should consider the droid 2, it has lots of apps..."

    so yes, palm has a long uphill battle to get back in the minds of the customers that don't own palm devices. Alot of the people posting negatives on this site are unhappy sprint customers or people that are dissatisfied with their current palm phones on vzw and att due to seeing what the competition is doing, far fewer apps, and some hardware issues.

    However, the pre 2 is supposedly better built, is faster, has a longer battery life (though I doubt it's much better) and comes preinstalled with one of the best operating systems out there, now with version 2.0 so what if it has a smaller screen and lower screen resolution. There are other devices that have just come out or are about to come out that have similar specs...blackerry torch, curves, bolds, droid pro...so despite what people say, there IS a market for these devices. If you look at the pre 2 as palms only new device that will be coming out, they are not gonna win significantly more mind share amongst customers not aware of palm. However, if you look as the pre 2 as the first of a few upcoming devices from hp palm, I think it's a good device to be offered in their portfolio, and will be a solid choice for people looking at it's particular specs, similar to the blackberries and droid pro.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    It likely also had Sprints record on number of returns at the time...
    that it did, the pre was a horrid phone at launch. nothing but issues. but to be honest the evo broke all time sales records for sprint. they sold soo many units they were out of stock for months.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    We should wait to CES...
    "We should wait until..."
    1. CES '09
    2. First half of '09
    3. Two year anniversary (contract end date) for first gen iPhone users (this was my favorite one)
    4. June '09
    5. App Catalog Availability
    6. Paid Apps Availability
    7. Paid Apps International Availability
    8. CES '10
    9. Verizon Launch
    10. AT&T Launch
    11. PDK Availability
    12. 3D Gaming
    13. Finalization of HP merger
    14. "Coming Months" (i.e. not soon)
    15. Pre 2
    16. CES '11
    17. The Future?
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    "We should wait until..."
    1. CES '09
    2. First half of '09
    3. Two year anniversary (contract end date) for first gen iPhone users (this was my favorite one)
    4. June '09
    5. App Catalog Availability
    6. Paid Apps Availability
    7. Paid Apps International Availability
    8. CES '10
    9. Verizon Launch
    10. AT&T Launch
    11. PDK Availability
    12. 3D Gaming
    13. Finalization of HP merger
    14. "Coming Months" (i.e. not soon)
    15. Pre 2
    16. CES '11
    17. The Future?


    hit the nail right there buddy! we have waited long enough.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Does google hits translate into sales? Are all of those hit of people actually buying the product? The Palm Pre had an enormous hit count leading up to June '09. What happened?
    Sorry, try again. My reply was to a post that said "Webos 2.0 dropped and no one cares." I simply countered his FUD with FACTS that there are more pages talking about the Pre2 & 2.0 than the LATEST HTC superphone.

    Might not want to be so quick to jump next time.
    Last edited by cobrakon; 10/31/2010 at 11:32 AM.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    people again being narrow and closed minded on the pre.
    That has gone both ways in these forums since there are certainly those who refuse to see the current state of things for what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    ...and will be a solid choice for people looking at it's particular specs, similar to the blackberries and droid pro.
    Perhaps if you look strictly at device to device. The issue I see with this is that the BBs and droid pros come with heavy buy-in and established support. With the Pre 2 you get to stand in line and wait (for buy-in, for apps, etc).
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Sorry, troll again. My reply was to a post that said "Webos 2.0 dropped and no one cares." I simply countered his FUD with FACTS that there are more pages talking about the Pre2 & 2.0 than the LATEST HTC superphone.

    Might not want to be so quick to troll next time.
    Ahh, the T word. Love it!

    You're "facts" are strange. You counter with search engine hits and I respond with talk of "sales". Then you reduce it to name calling? Nice!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Ahh, the T word. Love it!

    You're "facts" are strange. You counter with search engine hits and I respond with talk of "sales". Then you reduce it to name calling? Nice!
    So web pages are NOT evidence of people discussing a particular topic then? Ah, I got it. Someone should let Google know asap.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    "We should wait until..."
    1. CES '09
    2. First half of '09
    3. Two year anniversary (contract end date) for first gen iPhone users (this was my favorite one)
    4. June '09
    5. App Catalog Availability
    6. Paid Apps Availability
    7. Paid Apps International Availability
    8. CES '10
    9. Verizon Launch
    10. AT&T Launch
    11. PDK Availability
    12. 3D Gaming
    13. Finalization of HP merger
    14. "Coming Months" (i.e. not soon)
    15. Pre 2
    16. CES '11
    17. The Future?
    Who said you should wait for the Pre 2? I never actually expected a Pre 2 nor did I hear HP Palm saying the Pre 2 is a different form factor. But go ahead and don't wait. I can't upgrade right now, so I have to wait anyway. Go buy your Epic, EVO, DRIOD 2 and so on. I really don't care. But CES '11 we will either see the form factors that we know are coming -- yes, we do know more form factors are coming -- and be impressed or we will see them and not be impressed. It's that simple. But if you honestly think HP can wave their hands and make a phone that can compete with those phone in a matter of months, you are being unrealistic. We have no idea what Palm had, and it's more then likely that whatever the c40 was -- it was laking in many ways. HP probably walked in and said, "This isn't good enough. Here is what we want and some ideas on how to get there." From that point it would take at best one full year of development and research to get a good device out. Maybe they will be able to show it to us in 6-8 months. The Pre took Palm, like what, 1-2 years to actually make? How long did the iPhone take Apple, one month right? I bet the DROID was thought up in just a couple of weeks, right? The answer is no.

    I am sorry if this seems harsh, but I am just a little tired of people coming to a Palm Fan Site and crushing on everyone's parade. So what, we wish the best for Palm. So what, we want to know why the Pre 2 doesn't stack up with the others. Again, so far, all we got is the screen size and resolution, lack of camera features, no compass, and ... what else? And heck -- I even want a large screen. But even I see the Pre 2 as being a good device. Sure, it's not an iPhone killer -- but I don't want it to be. I want it to be a good device, and it looks like it will be. And if it's true that you do like Palm, that your just disappointed in what you see, thats fine. Be disappointed. Don't wait. Buy the best phone available to you and make sure you pick it right. If we "Palm Fans" are right, and HP Palm will indeed make several good phones next year -- when your upgrade comes around, WebOS will be better, the phones will be better, and you can get one then. (assuming you don't have a yearly upgrade like some Sprint customers do -- but then you'll be able to get whatever Palm does next year).

    So there ya go. Don't wait for CES. Don't even pay attention. But at CES, we will see something. Whatever that will impress or not ... well, what can I say, wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    So web pages are NOT evidence of people discussing a particular topic then? Ah, I got it. Someone should let Google know asap.
    LOL
    Last edited by astraith; 10/31/2010 at 11:40 AM.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    But CES '11 we will either see the form factors that we know are coming -- yes, we do know more form factors are coming
    all speculation until something is confirmed by palm/hp. for all we know they will just unveil a palmpad. personally i think the pre2 is it for quite awhile.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    So web pages are NOT evidence of people discussing a particular topic then? Ah, I got it. Someone should let Google know asap.
    Sure it is. Does that somehow invalidate my questions as to whether those "hits" turn into sales? Does it say people care enough to "buy" it or just enough to "discuss" it?

    I thought the point of it was to "sell" the product. Someone should let all the universities that teach Business 101 know asap. <-- See? I can be sarcastic as well.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Who said you should wait for the Pre 2? I never actually expected a Pre 2 nor did I hear HP Palm saying the Pre 2 is a different form factor. But go ahead and don't wait. I can't upgrade right now, so I have to wait anyway. Go buy your Epic, EVO, DRIOD 2 and so on. I really don't care. But CES '11 we will either see the form factors that we know are coming -- yes, we do know more form factors are coming -- and be impressed or we will see them and not be impressed. It's that simple. But if you honestly think HP can wave their hands and make a phone that can compete with those phone in a matter of months, you are being unrealistic. We have no idea what Palm had, and it's more then likely that whatever the c40 was -- it was laking in many ways. HP probably walked in and said, "This isn't good enough. Here is what we want and some ideas on how to get there." From that point it would take at best one full year of development and research to get a good device out. Maybe they will be able to show it to us in 6-8 months. The Pre took Palm, like what, 1-2 years to actually make? How long did the iPhone take Apple, one month right? I bet the DROID was thought up in just a couple of weeks, right? The answer is no.

    I am sorry if this seems harsh, but I am just a little tired of people coming to a Palm Fan Site and crushing on everyone's parade. So what, we wish the best for Palm. So what, we want to know why the Pre 2 doesn't stack up with the others. Again, so far, all we got is the screen size and resolution, lack of camera features, no compass, and ... what else? And heck -- I even want a large screen. But even I see the Pre 2 as being a good device. Sure, it's not an iPhone killer -- but I don't want it to be. I want it to be a good device, and it looks like it will be. And if it's true that you do like Palm, that your just disappointed in what you see, thats fine. Be disappointed. Don't wait. Buy the best phone available to you and make sure you pick it right. If we "*******" are right, and HP Palm will indeed make several good phones next year -- when your upgrade comes around, WebOS will be better, the phones will be better, and you can get one then. (assuming you don't have a yearly upgrade like some Sprint customers do -- but then you'll be able to get whatever Palm does next year).

    So there ya go. Don't wait for CES. Don't even pay attention. But at CES, we will see something. Whatever that will impress or not ... well, what can I say, wait.
    Uhm...why are you taking this so personal? It's just a discussion. Calm down. It's a topic in a cross-platform chat so you need to put the desires for a fan-filled parade aside. Nothing I or anyone here says should be taken so personally. If I've said something offensive, I apologize (in fact, if you point it out, I'll try to reword the post to be less offensive).

    Now, my statement is about the numerous times that this "just wait until..." line has come up. The only thing that has resulted after each one is that we've created another one to wait for. CES '11 is the latest in that long chain of events.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Uhm...why are you taking this so personal? It's just a discussion. Calm down. It's a topic in a cross-platform chat so you need to put the desires for a fan-filled parade aside. Nothing I or anyone here says should be taken so personally. If I've said something offensive, I apologize (in fact, if you point it out, I'll try to reword the post to be less offensive).

    Now, my statement is about the numerous times that this "just wait until..." line has come up. The only thing that has resulted after each one is that we've created another one to wait for. CES '11 is the latest in that long chain of events.
    I am not taking it personal. I am just defending the OP and other here who do like Palm. But I am curious to why "palm fans" have been edited out. Did I say something else? If so I do apologize, but "Palm Fans" is what I meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by fixxxer1022 View Post
    all speculation until something is confirmed by palm/hp. for all we know they will just unveil a palmpad. personally i think the pre2 is it for quite awhile.
    I might be mistaken, but haven't we been told by someone who works with HP/Palm via his official twitter account that new form factors are coming? I didn't mention that those form factors are super phones, I just said we do know new form factors are coming. And you might be right, we might not get a new device next year. I doubt it, but it's possible.

    And again, I am not taking any of this personal. Just creating replies and a conversation. Am I doing a good job?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Sure it is. Does that somehow invalidate my questions as to whether those "hits" turn into sales? Does it say people care enough to "buy" it or just enough to "discuss" it?

    I thought the point of it was to "sell" the product. Someone should let all the universities that teach Business 101 know asap. <-- See? I can be sarcastic as well.
    Touche. I see now that you weren't actually trolling on my post (I edited it), but we're on different topics. My earlier post was to counter the other poster that said "2.0 was out and no one noticed" which is patently untrue due to the sheer number of hits on "webos 2.0" which proves that people are talking about it all over. It's my experience that people don't talk about things they don't care about or don't have interest in so clearly there ARE people that care about Palm, Pre2, and WebOS 2.0. Even more so than Windows Phone 7 which has been billed "the second coming".

    Whether 26 million hits translates into sales this time around remains to be seen. Advertising is key. People today still don't recognize the phone\know it's capabilities when they see it 18 months later. If people couldn't be swayed by advertising, 30 seconds during the Super Bowl wouldn't cost $2.5 million to run. HP has a strong marketing background and connections to Hollywood. Palm never had any celebs (that I recall) running in their adds while HP has had many big timers like SJP, Dwight Howard, Snoop Dogg, etc.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Who said you should wait for the Pre 2?
    Palm did. If you look back at the 2 year history of the Pre, Palm has consistently found new carrots to dangle in front of the faithful at alarmingly regular intervals (as taharka thoughtfully enumerated).

    The latest attempt at "please don't go, we can change" was "new hardware is on the way." The Pre 2 certainly qualifies as new hardware. We just didn't figure that Palm actually meant "hey, we're just kidding - newer hardware is REALLY on its way."
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