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  1. #21  
    @helloneumman,

    plausible theory you had there.
    but then how do you explain the pixi, and pre plus?
  2. #22  
    bottom line was the iphone was a huge success. it didn't need to change.

    The pre was not a huge success so doing a similar thing makes little sense.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    @helloneumman,

    plausible theory you had there.
    but then how do you explain the pixi, and pre plus?
    It's explained in there Again, this is just my little theory
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by manordwall View Post
    It seems funny how everyone that hasnt owned a pre or iphone is making fun of palm for releasing a 3rd gen? pre and yet they would talk about how great the iphone is even though the hardware has hardly changed since 2g. Yes they added a front camera and a bit faster but thats what we've done (minus the camera) It just seems kind of uninformed for people to mock palm about remaking a phone twice now when apple has done it 3 times. I guess its because its apple that its alright to do so.

    Edit: the original Pre was definitely not great hardware, it was 1st gen though you cant really blame palm. Yeah I get it, Apple has made more solid hardware. Saying its better is a point of view because I prefer a real keyboard
    because the iphones build was good from the start... if the pre2 was built like the dell venue, no one would complain.
  5. #25  
    The problem with this idea is that some like the Pre form factor. If HP did not intend multiple form factors, I'd agree that something bold and new would be the best option. But that's not the plan so far as I can tell. HP intends to release to a broad market - sliders (vertical and horizontal), candy bars, slabs. It makes no sense to not have a Pre 2 under this plan. If you don't like the form factor, wait for one of the others. If you like it but are concerned about quality, wait for a few hardware reviews, try it out at a store, etc. But again, I see no reason not ti release it. Many of us really like this form and are glad to see that it will continue as oneof the HP era phones.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    bottom line was the iphone was a huge success. it didn't need to change.

    The pre was not a huge success so doing a similar thing makes little sense.
  6. cgk
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    The iPhone was only a game changer because it was there first, and Steve Jobs took advantage of all his fan boys in the blogosphere to make sure iPhone was the "cool" phone.

    Yeah:

    Apple (AAPL) begins selling its revolutionary iPhone this summer and it will mark the end of the string of hits for the company.


    There are several versions of Mp3 player phones out there and none of them are big sellers. The reason? The market does not want them together. I do not want to have to turn off my music to get a phone call. If I am driving my family in my car and we are listening to the iPod, having to turn off the music to answer my phone becomes a major hassle. The same holds true for any event where I play the iPod. Why would I pay $600 for this, or, buy an iPod in addition to this, in order to avoid the hassle?
    The iPhone: Apple's First Flop -- Seeking Alpha

    To its many fans, Apple is more of a religious cult than a company. An iToaster that downloads music while toasting bread would probably get the same kind of worldwide attention.

    Don't let that fool you into thinking that it matters. The big competitors in the mobile-phone industry such as Nokia Oyj and Motorola Inc. won't be whispering nervously into their clamshells over a new threat to their business.

    The iPhone is nothing more than a luxury bauble that will appeal to a few gadget freaks. In terms of its impact on the industry, the iPhone is less relevant.
    Apple will sell a few to its fans, but the iPhone won't make a long-term mark on the industry.
    Apple iPhone Will Fail in a Late, Defensive Move: Matthew Lynn - Bloomberg

    So, anyways, Apple is slated to come out with a new phone. Reports say that it will have a slide-out keyboard, 4GB or 8GB of storage, and work on CDMA or GSM cellular networks. It will start at $249 before subscription rebates.

    And it will largely fail.
    So when consumers get to that counter at CompUSA, they will debate buying the Apple phone, and even hold it up for a look. But when they whip out the credit card, they'll probably opt for a Motorola.
    The Apple phone flop - CNET News

    Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of cool things about the phone. But it has way too many warts to be a hit. It doesn’t really have a niche, and it doesn’t create one. It sort of straddles a few, but it doesn’t allow you to replace the devices in that niche. And it costs far more than a Moto Q and a 4GB Nano. It’ll sell a couple million units to the many people who have wet dreams about Steve Jobs, and that will be about it.
  7. #27  
    Whenever someone talks about the iPhone or the Pre, it becomes very difficult to separate fan-boy/girl fanaticism. Both devices are different, yet very similar. Each device has its pluses and minuses. Leave it that.

    I can speak from experience that I've enjoyed the iPhone each and every revision since 2007. I can also speak from experience that there have been aspects of the iPhone I've detested. Where the iPhone lacks, I find myself drawn to other devices to make up for what I believe is missing.
  8. #28  
    You like what you like, nobody's opinion is going to change that. For some, they may have only had experience with one OS or mainly experience with one OS and limited with another. Fairly obvious in a lot of posts, that a lot of people are 1st gen smart phone users. If you would have asked me in the spring, I probably would have said I hated my phone, it took months of aggrevation (before I figured out patches, OC'ing, Preware, etc). Works great for me now. Now the only thing that aggrevates me are the iTrolls, but that's ok, I figured out the ignore button and it doesn't take too long before I catch on to which ones are here SOLELY to try and make the rest of the Pre users miserable, not sure why, maybe they've nothing to do in iPhone lalaland. Some of them, present their arguments without being rude or disrespectful, they don't get ignored but those that constantly barrage us quickly get silenced... Oh what's that, a smart retort, and (How come he's not biting?) You just got permanently ignored, your fuel is gone, the fire will go out.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    I totally agree... If Palm had come out of the gate with a solidly built device it would be a different story. The Pre may be a 'past' device that was rushed to market. But webOS is far from a dead platform.

    My personal take on the whole Pre hardware thing is this (includes Pixi).. Ruby's whole intent wasn't to sell a ton of phones, but to get a phone to market and show off webOS. Palm was running dry for funds and webOS was actually the product on sale - not the hardware. I'm under the impression that Ruby's whole intent was to actually sell webOS (Palm as a whole) to a large company like HP, BB, HTC, etc... not to revive Palm as a stand alone company. He needed to get webOS to market as quickly as possible and a cool device. The Pre was rushed to get webOS out there in front of people to show off and entice potential bidders for Palm. The device was flawed, but to Ruby it was about showcasing the OS, not the equipment. The Plus versions of both were brought out later to fit the original hardware concept. Again, Ruby wanted to hit the market within a certain time window...the window as closing, so they released the non-Plus versions to get the OS to market (knowing they could advance the hardware later).

    That's just my take on it... not other's I'm sure. WebOS was a HUGE product for Palm and they needed to sell to survive. They put all their resources into that OS and... in the end, the move paid off. If you look at it that way - it was a heck of a business move by Ruby. He didn't fail with Palm... he actually succeeded with his whole project.
    Interesting theory, but not only does it run counter to his constant reassuring to shareholders and the public that he always planned for Palm to remain independent, but it essentially shows absolute and total contempt for the people who bought the original devices. I wouldn't put anything past Rubinstein as CEOs lie, almost by default. But it's stunningly myopic thinking.

    By executing a half-cocked launch with junky initial hardware, he created an additional hurdle for any company that would purchase WebOS and try to relaunch to any real success in the marketplace. That hurdle, of course, is the abundance of shoddy original hardware forever being refurbed, recycled, and resold to this day on Sprint - the largest seller of WebOS devices thus far. He's created a demographic of people who tell horror stories to their friends and associates about endless returns and creaking, cracking cheap plastic. This warns them off and creates a bad hardware stigma that HP will have to fight for some time to correct, even if they put it on different form factors.

    Microsoft realized this when they killed off Kin weeks after launch and got the hardware out of public view ASAP. They knew a stigma would grow with their products that could affect the coming launch of Windows Phone 7, so they ate the cost to give themselves a better chance in the fall. By contrast, HP continues to put out product just because it was at a completed R&D stage (e.g. Palm Pre 2, eStation Android Tablet printer) and as they go on to abandon these odd children, they will leave more dissatisfied customers in their wake with little confidence in HP.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    If you get it, then why did you start this thread? If you just now got it, maybe a nice mod will come along and close it.
    I don't get it.. Why would you want this this thread to be closed. Is it the fact that ios sucks and people keep on
    denying it.
    Webos is not the best, but definitely not the worse.
    I'll choose webos anytime over any other operating system out there.

    Regards,
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    The problem with this idea is that some like the Pre form factor. If HP did not intend multiple form factors, I'd agree that something bold and new would be the best option. But that's not the plan so far as I can tell. HP intends to release to a broad market - sliders (vertical and horizontal), candy bars, slabs. It makes no sense to not have a Pre 2 under this plan. If you don't like the form factor, wait for one of the others. If you like it but are concerned about quality, wait for a few hardware reviews, try it out at a store, etc. But again, I see no reason not ti release it. Many of us really like this form and are glad to see that it will continue as oneof the HP era phones.
    That's fine, but where did HP say they intended to release to a broad market of PHONES? To my remembrance, they've always used the word "devices" which refers to printers, tablets, and apparently even netbooks. I've never seen anything that indicates that they're going to deviate from the Palm form factors as they are now. Well, aside from C40/Mansion/Roadrunner rumors that have never been substantiated, that is.

    Ultimately, I don't think people are protesting that HP Palm is releasing "this form factor", but rather that they are releasing it again and again and again. This isn't Blackberry where they have a huge guaranteed Enterprise base they can foist this stuff off too. This is a consumer-focused OS and releasing the same form factor over and over doesn't excite anyone unless the original was a phenomenon, and the Pre most certainly was NOT. Even with a successful one - like the Droid - Verizon offers a big screen slab (HTC Incredible), a big screen slider (Droid 2), super big screen slab (Droid X and soon to come HTC Evo clone), and QWERTY candybar (Droid Pro). All in the space of 6 months or so. Going on two years since the announcement of the Pre, we still have the same two form factors with no assurance of anything else except for a tablet. That's why people are dissatisfied.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    By contrast, HP continues to put out product just because it was at a completed R&D stage (e.g. Palm Pre 2, eStation Android Tablet printer) and as they go on to abandon these odd children, they will leave more dissatisfied customers in their wake with little confidence in HP.
    Isn't this the opposite point of the OP? Apple spends an incredible sum on R&D and marketing. There have been a few accidents, such as the Apple TV, which are wastes of money. The end result are consumers who feel satisfied that the purchase they've made is worth the cost. They feel they have the state of the art technology for that period in time. The fact that the carrier continues to sell and support that model makes the consumer feel he/she has a current device.

    Unless businesses properly gauge what consumers want, they won't remain in business very long. RIM is bleeding by the waist side now because they keep releasing devices consumers find lacking in important areas. Are consumers willing to accept less than adequate hardware in order to be able to use a highly advanced OS? Seems self-serving. If the hardware isn't reliable for the course of device ownership, how can you use the advanced OS? If the carrier EOLs the device shortly (less than the time for an annual upgrade), why should consumers feel good about being stuck in a contract with a device they feel would make a better paper weight?

    HP has a real winner with Palm. Just how Palm fits into HP's business scheme is not clear. What is clear is that this iPhone user can't wait for his Palm Pre Plus to be delivered in the mail today.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    It's explained in there Again, this is just my little theory
    Two words: revisionist history.

    Thanks for that walk down memory lane. My sides have not recovered from the laughter. You inspired me to dig up a few more of the greatest hits of tech punditry.

    He describes the product he wishes Palm made, but didn't. The problem is, he was convinced, and tried to convince others that the Pre was actually a game-changing device, not just an OS.

    Of course, my favorite McNamee quote is:

    “You know the beautiful thing: June 29, 2009, is the two- year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone,” McNamee said today in an interview in San Francisco. “Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later.”
    Finally, there were a spate of articles about Palm trying to remain independent because they thought they had a winner in the Pre, and a solid roadmap.

    You can find tons of blurbs such as:

    Mr Rubinstein, however, said he was “bullish” about Palm’s long-term prospects. “I believe Palm can survive as an independent company,” he told the Financial Times. “We have a plan that gets us to profitability.”
    The net makes revisionist history harder than ever. In no place in the multiverse did Ruby succeed. The Pre was touted as already being 5 times faster than the iPhone at the time of CES 09'. Palm was proud of the hardware as much as the software. They thought they had the killer system that would stagger the market. They thought they were Apple, and convinced a lot of people around here that they were.

    It was only later that the beta tester theory emerged, and people began making excuses for the Pres lackluster performance, both in hand and in the market. Just this year, the story went from, Palm will never allow themselves to be sold, to, Ruby was planning to sell Palm from the beginning.

    To this day, misguided loyalists are still posting threads that compare the Pre to the iPhone...
  14. #34  
    The difference in our(palm pre) case is that the hardware had lot of issues compared to the iphone. Which left bad taste in people mouth eventhough pre2 looks like a solid hardware it just brings back bad memories, don't get me wrong I like the pebble design but increasing the screen size and adding more goodies(hardware) might have helped them.

    [i]-- Sent from my Palm PrPrPr
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You get the difference between refreshing a successful model, and refreshing a failed model, right?
    Not sure why there were more posts after this one. Even one of GIECO's cavemen could understand the answer as stated above.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    The problem with this idea is that some like the Pre form factor. If HP did not intend multiple form factors, I'd agree that something bold and new would be the best option. But that's not the plan so far as I can tell. HP intends to release to a broad market - sliders (vertical and horizontal), candy bars, slabs. It makes no sense to not have a Pre 2 under this plan. If you don't like the form factor, wait for one of the others. If you like it but are concerned about quality, wait for a few hardware reviews, try it out at a store, etc. But again, I see no reason not ti release it. Many of us really like this form and are glad to see that it will continue as oneof the HP era phones.
    The problem is the assumption that people like the form factor.

    Just because 100 people or so on here say they like it- doesn't mean the masses like it.

    Where has Palm/Webos marketshare gone since Jun 09 [the release of the Pre]??

    From 7-8% to 4%.

    So do people really like it?
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    ...It's generations behind in terms of developer support.
    I'm thinking Apple's $100M Developer Fund had something to do with how fast they got out of the gate. HP needs to trump that.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by manordwall View Post
    The fact that people started mocking the Pre 2 for being yet another remake of the original pre even though apple remakes the iPhone each year.
    BB does the same effing thing too.

    But as others mentioned is not really that Palm is releasing a spec bumped phone. All companies do that. In fact, whats the major difference between all the GA-gillion android phones out there, keyboard y or n.


    Its that they repeated a failed product.

    I love the vertical slider, but they could have made it look more sturdy, like the dell venue win pho 7 gadget.
    Treo 650 > HTC Mogul > HTC Touch Diamond > BB Curve > Palm PRE > HTC Evo + BB Bold
  19. #39  
    I would see no reason not to continue using the Pre design. The design in general is NOT a faulty design. It shows signs of them cutting corners on manufacturing and rushing to market as well as poor launch support. But the design itself is sound enough to warrant refinement. With HP backing they can actually use quality materials and give it a real launch backing and market support.

    People have said this looks like a design that should have been released in the summer. Odds are it being released now is related to those quality issues in manufacturing, marketing, and launch that all needed to be fixed and ironed out.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I would see no reason not to continue using the Pre design. The design in general is NOT a faulty design. It shows signs of them cutting corners on manufacturing and rushing to market as well as poor launch support. But the design itself is sound enough to warrant refinement. With HP backing they can actually use quality materials and give it a real launch backing and market support.

    Some people have said this looks like a design that should have been released in the summers. Odds are it being released now is related to those quality issues in manufacturing, marketing, and launch that all needed to be fixed and ironed out.
    In this type of market, in this type of country failures are always remembered.

    People will flat out avoid the Pre 2 for no other reason than what happened with the quality of the Pre.
    That, in itself, is a good enough reason to drop it.
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