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  1. #41  
    again we are NOT discussing Pre vs iPhone

    This is about is Multi Tasking Relevant, now or in the near future in the mobile space...

    the iPhone itself proves nothing about the future of the mobile space in what do users want...

    Example Microsoft said "Microsoft says most users, including Office users, don't really need clipboard functionality". We... respectfully disagree? Sure, let's leave it at that.

    But what Happened??? Microsoft Already Planning Copy/Paste Support for Windows Phone 7

    they realized that PEOPLE DO want it... regardless of what THEY think

    Apple made the same mistake with Multi-tasking... hence iOS4

    Multi tasking is an issue.. for the mobile space... not addressing it, and/or avoiding the issue wont get you far
  2. #42  
    Who said it was iphone vs. WebOS?

    WebOS main feature it touted was its easy multi-tasking. Why would i not use that as an example of multi-tasking.

    Put me on your ignore list, call me a troll.....YOUR insecurities are showing.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    again we are NOT discussing Pre vs iPhone

    This is about is Multi Tasking Relevant, now or in the near future in the mobile space...

    the iPhone itself proves nothing about the future of the mobile space in what do users want...

    Example Microsoft said "Microsoft says most users, including Office users, don't really need clipboard functionality". We... respectfully disagree? Sure, let's leave it at that.

    But what Happened??? Microsoft Already Planning Copy/Paste Support for Windows Phone 7

    they realized that PEOPLE DO want it... regardless of what THEY think

    Apple made the same mistake with Multi-tasking... hence iOS4

    Multi tasking is an issue.. for the mobile space... not addressing it, and/or avoiding the issue wont get you far
    You are the one making this out to be webOS vs. iOS. The iPhone was only brought up as a reference point for the argument that multitasking and the various other features listed don't really matter to the "general" public.

    And just out of curiosity, how did Apple make a mistake? You obviously aren't listening to Apple's earning's call which is actually going on right now. Let me summarize it for you: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/18/app...2010-earnings/

    Microsoft realized that copy/paste and multitasking isn't something WP7 needs right away to be successful. If they deliver a product that has an overall great user experience and some quality applications they will do well. When they update WP7 at a later date to include things like copy/paste it will then appeal to more people that were holding out (which is probably small in comparison).

    It's not rocket science dude. Just look at the success of other platforms that are lacking and have lacked these must have feature sets that you claim as necessities. A lot of good they've done webOS.
    Last edited by barkerja; 10/18/2010 at 04:36 PM.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    @Sketch42 I don't think people are disagreeing with you to the extent that you think. I think the point is that the market as a whole, does not care "as much" about those things as you think. Not yet anyway. Things are progressing in the direction that you are stating, but I think people are, correctly, arguing that it's not there "yet".

    I certainly want to multi-task and used it on my Pre and still use it on my Evo. But the world, in general, still hasn't gotten to the point where they care much about doing that on a mobile device. The points made about the iPhone are valid ones. It is the single most popular mobile phone today and has been for a while. Yet, it is only now getting certain features (like multi-tasking). The sales has not changed "because of" multi-tasking however. So it's valid to say that "most" (not "everyone") people don't care much about that stuff...yet.

    There was even a poll here on P|C (not very scientific) where the vast majority of users stated they don't keep many apps open and just open an app when they need it and close it when they're done.

    That's not to say they don't use the feature at all, but it suggests that it isn't really the focal point...yet.
    the only thing that i disagree with so far from what i read in your post is the fact that you place the iPhone user base as the Gauge.. when believe it or not .. it isnt... webos for SURE is NOT the gauge either....

    so what IS the gauge... the avg PC / Mac consumer... how do they interact with their computers and how do they want that translated into their phones..
    Task switching? Muti-Tasking? Multi-threading??

    But nothing??? that is definately a step backwards... especially if the Phone Can NOT be Updated to support it...

    Lets not forget that , the OP was asking on win phone 7's lack of ability on multi tasking as well as that ability to be added at a later date... that is a BIG drawback..

    i agree its not a Focal point... but to disregard it as not a point at all... is naive
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Selleck
    The “multitasking” will apparently be implemented through Hub integration only for the near future, and apparently it will work a lot like “app switching.” While multitasking is a must-have for some consumers, if not most of them, it will all depend on how Microsoft implements the feature on the handsets. We know that the update is coming, but we don’t know when. While rumors may be suggesting we won’t have long to wait into 2011, we’ll just have to wait until an official announcement from Microsoft is made before we can really start getting excited.

    Windows Phone 7 Getting Copy & Paste and Multitasking in January Rumor Suggests - SlashGear
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    [...]iPhone user base as the Gauge.. when believe it or not .. it isnt... webos for SURE is NOT the gauge either....

    so what IS the gauge... the avg PC / Mac consumer... how do they interact with their computers and how do they want that translated into their phones[...]
    I think here it depends on which market you are looking at. iOS+Android+RIM represents the "current" market (of which iOS is the only one to command a very high number based on a single device [not quite single, but you get my point]). So it is ok to use the iPhone's user base as an example, within reason. You are right though, it is not "the" standard for all things mobile related.

    The avg PC/Mac consumer "could" be seen as part of the "potential" market, but I suspect most of those avg guys are already in the market and many of them are simply using feature phones which don't even have the potential to do some of the things mentioned by the OP.

    The real potential market is a combination of those still on feature phones and those that have yet to get into the mobile market. Again, I'm not sure multi-tasking on a mobile phone will be that high on their list.

    The thing is, currently, consumers don't see desktop/laptop as being equivalent to mobile. As such, things like multi-tasking don't tend to be as important as on a desktop. Again, I think it's moving in that direction.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I think here it depends on which market you are looking at. iOS+Android+RIM represents the "current" market (of which iOS is the only one to command a very high number based on a single device [not quite single, but you get my point]). So it is ok to use the iPhone's user base as an example, within reason. You are right though, it is not "the" standard for all things mobile related.

    The avg PC/Mac consumer "could" be seen as part of the "potential" market, but I suspect most of those avg guys are already in the market and many of them are simply using feature phones which don't even have the potential to do some of the things mentioned by the OP.

    The real potential market is a combination of those still on feature phones and those that have yet to get into the mobile market. Again, I'm not sure multi-tasking on a mobile phone will be that high on their list.

    The thing is, currently, consumers don't see desktop/laptop as being equivalent to mobile. As such, things like multi-tasking don't tend to be as important as on a desktop. Again, I think it's moving in that direction.
    so my point is, as the OP was... with things moving in the direction that they are.. is it wise to put a product out that lacks this functionality...

    again that was the point of the whole Thread...

    Thank you for the refreshing posts...
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    [...]with things moving in the direction that they are.. is it wise to put a product out that lacks this functionality[...]
    Nope, I don't think it is wise at all personally.

    I think they are taking a calculated risk. Is there enough in there to support consumer adoption? Apple took the risk of not having those type of features and it worked out for them. Palm took the risk of focusing on those features (at the cost of more standard features) and it didn't work out as planned. Will be interesting to see how it plays out for WP7. The landscape is very different now, and because of the trends you've mentioned, I think it's a bad bet...but we'll see.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Nope, I don't think it is wise at all personally.

    I think they are taking a calculated risk. Is there enough in there to support consumer adoption? Apple took the risk of not having those type of features and it worked out for them. Palm took the risk of focusing on those features (at the cost of more standard features) and it didn't work out as planned. Will be interesting to see how it plays out for WP7. The landscape is very different now, and because of the trends you've mentioned, I think it's a bad bet...but we'll see.
    I personally don't think that it will hurt them initially... But once the hype dies and user start to get frustrated , especially those in corp world, start to voice their frustrations.. That will tell how strong the fan / user base for win phone 7 really is

    just like antennagate.. User base was too strong for it too make a dent
    [i]-- Sent from my Palm PrPrPr
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by hatchettjack View Post
    beyond popular belief, most of us do not use multitasking. Most of us could also care the less about whether or not office suite is on the phone. I use mine for the internet and social networking, and that is what most people use theirs for. You techie business types are a very small percentage, and no company can make money catering to you. But they can make a fortune catering to us normal people.
    This isn't about techie types... Corp Users... Or Reg Consumer market... This is about getting all 3 of them to love your product, want it, recommend it...

    When you cater to one group.. The others will find solstice somewhere else...

    So OS makers become the real loser.. Not the consumer

    [i]-- Sent from my Palm PrPrPr
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    The masses have spoken, no one cares about desktop sync. Its a cloud based world.
    So Mark/Space and the like are making no sales then?

    On the day when Head-of/in-the-clouds Ozzie resigns from his post at MS, I beg to differ. *I* care, and I'm a potential customer damnit!
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  12. cgk
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    So Mark/Space and the like are making no sales then?
    As a proportion of mobile sales? I would guess they are trivial but that's the whole point. The mobile OS developers know that someone will write software to cater to niche users which is why they don't bother.
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    As a proportion of mobile sales? I would guess they are trivial but that's the whole point. The mobile OS developers know that someone will write software to cater to niche users which is why they don't bother.
    I could argue with "niche" but that's not my point. Unlike (say) Palm, MS *could* decide to prevent software like this being available, as they may feel it detracts from their cloud services, and potential revenue stream. Feature holes plus walled garden is not good for users.
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    I could argue with "niche" but that's not my point. Unlike (say) Palm, MS *could* decide to prevent software like this being available, as they may feel it detracts from their cloud services, and potential revenue stream. Feature holes plus walled garden is not good for users.
    Just curious.... MS. Isn't offerin a sync solution for use with office?
    Does that mean you need to use live office?

    [i]-- Sent from my Palm PrPrPr
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    Just curious.... MS. Isn't offerin a sync solution for use with office?
    Does that mean you need to use live office?

    [i]-- Sent from my Palm PrPrPr
    You can use these services:
    Hotmail
    Google
    EAS
    Yahoo (i think...could be wrong here).


    Basically, what everyone has come to expect.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    So Mark/Space and the like are making no sales then?

    On the day when Head-of/in-the-clouds Ozzie resigns from his post at MS, I beg to differ. *I* care, and I'm a potential customer damnit!
    Well individuals will have their preferences all the time. As i have been doing when i say "people"...it again is about the mass consumer. Us techies/nerds/phone freaks....have such specialized requests sometime that companies do offer solutions and of course we stay away unless there is a solution.

    So for you, as of now, Windows Phone 7 doesn't make sense if you need a desktop client.

    But think about it this way....and this annoys me to no end....i know SOOOOOO many people who still input numbers by hand into their phone. They don't use a desktop client or a cloud based client. So i have to put up with requests on my facebook feed for "send me your numbers, i lost/broke my phone"

    And it makes me want to punch a koala.

    Like, don't own smartphones if you are not going to use the base level features. Save yourself the money.
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    #57  
    I don't care about the "side loading", but as a dude who designs UIs, I'd say that they have failed with their GUI transitions. Yes, this is uber-nerd talk, but I think the common user does notice the difference. The transitions that I've seen on WP7 don't indicate anything. They don't show the app going from where you're clicking to where it's loading. They're just pretty animations. And while they are pretty, they don't add to the experience of using the UI. In my opinion, if you're not adding to the experience, you're distracting from it.

    To me, the biggest failure of Windows Windows Mobile 5.x/6.x was UI fragmentation and disorganization. Every manufacturer had a different look and feel. On my treo 750, if I wanted to make a change in the settings, I never knew where to go to make it. Settings seemed to be haphazardly scattered around the phone in different locations.

    It seems like Microsoft has been trying to address the fragmentation issue with their strict WP7 compliance regulations. They're not really offering a whole lot that Android and iOS don't already have, though, so I can't see WP7 succeeding in anything other than strongly Microsoft-entrenched IT shops.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Like, don't own smartphones if you are not going to use the base level features. Save yourself the money.

    This is why I hate the whole crack berry fad. Blackberries are great for business types that really need all of that push functionality and other features bbos is known for. But bb is by far the most popular smartphone amongst my friends and peers (I'm a college student). It's ridiculous how everyone gets one just for 1 stupid app, bbm. It's really quite crazy. I get in arguments with some of my better friends once in awhile, "why even get a smartphone if all you want it for is an advanced texting app, you can do that with any regular phone and save yourself 30 a month!"

    Sorry for derailing the thread. Please everyone, continue hating on a not yet released platform.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    This is why I hate the whole crack berry fad. Blackberries are great for business types that really need all of that push functionality and other features bbos is known for. But bb is by far the most popular smartphone amongst my friends and peers (I'm a college student). It's ridiculous how everyone gets one just for 1 stupid app, bbm. It's really quite crazy. I get in arguments with some of my better friends once in awhile, "why even get a smartphone if all you want it for is an advanced texting app, you can do that with any regular phone and save yourself 30 a month!"
    BBM is RIM's killer app. Regular SMS does not come close to it's functionality. Also, a BB costs $15 a month extra on AT&T which is $5 less than their texting plan.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    This is why I hate the whole crack berry fad. Blackberries are great for business types that really need all of that push functionality and other features bbos is known for. But bb is by far the most popular smartphone amongst my friends and peers (I'm a college student). It's ridiculous how everyone gets one just for 1 stupid app, bbm. It's really quite crazy. I get in arguments with some of my better friends once in awhile, "why even get a smartphone if all you want it for is an advanced texting app, you can do that with any regular phone and save yourself 30 a month!"

    Sorry for derailing the thread. Please everyone, continue hating on a not yet released platform.
    I LOVED BBM when I had a blackberry, but stopped caring about it when i didn't have one.

    It has good features but things i didn't use on a regular basis was group BBM and i hated people could see when i read their BBm cause sometimes i didn't feel like responding there and then.

    Google is a bit silly for not pushing their GTalk app a bit harder. Its on every mainstream android device, it barely uses any battery and the majority of android users are going to have a gmail account. They could easily turn it into their version of BBM.
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