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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    except for Nokia, Palm, Microsoft. But who are they anyway?....
    They are manufacturers that don't have devices that run Android. Hmm, could that be a coincidence?

    I did say "nearly" all. I expect MS will pick up slightly with WP7, and people are taking a wait-and-see with Nokia and Maemo/MeeGo. Even so, Nokia still dominates the global market, so they aren't exactly hurting.
  2. #62  
    What's more important to a company, marketshare or revenue?
  3. #63  
    I assume by "revenue" you mean "profitability." Still, the answer to that question is debated ad infinitum. Depends on who you ask. Why?
  4. #64  
    Fior example, Dell sells more computers than Apple. Yet dell's finacials are a mess. Marketshare doesn't mean everything.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Who determines what a killer feature is? I will never buy another mobile device without videochat. Therefore it is a necessary feature for me. VideoChat on mobiles has been a failure because the quality and ease of use has never been that good.
    Who decides? Consumers.
    Nobody is denying that it is a killer feature for *you*. There is a small percentage to whom that feature is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Again, maybe you guys should try facetime before you comment. Next year when the iPad has it, and hopefully other vendors support facetime you will see the popularity of this feature grow tremendously.
    Nope - we won't.

    I tried to explain why it won't "grow tremendously". And the fact that it already didn't in europe - where it had that chance for *years* is why I feel confident in saying so.

    Don't get me wrong - over the long run more or less all smartphones will have a front facing camera. Just like they added video, bluetooth and compass for the minorities who make use of such features. Mass produced it doesn't cost much and manufacturers/carrier will want to cover all bases.
    But even more so than with Bluetooth and compass it will be a feature that's there and then mostly gets ignored by most users who mainly text and call and sometimes play angry bird or tale a picture on their phones.

    None of that means that there won't be a minority who regularly use those features.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  6. #66  
    For example, Dell sells more computers than Apple. Yet dell's finacials are a mess. Marketshare doesn't mean everything.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    What's more important to a company, marketshare or revenue?
    Both are means to an end: profit.

    Facts:
    You can have great market share and go bankrupt.
    You can have a zillion $$ revenue and go bankrupt.

    At first it can make sense to invest a lot and neglect revenue to gain market share - planning to cash in at a later date when you dominate the market (e.g. YouTube).
    Revenue is worthless if it's less than your costs. Again that can make sense as a temporary measure while you raise efficiency, slash costs and cash in later.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    video chat is goin to be huge eventually. I mean look at text messaging. I myself swore I'd never use it, but I do all the time now. It's simple look at movies about the future and you see video chat all the time. A lot of things from movies with people who have imaginative minds making them seem to creep into actual reality. It's going to happen so why fight it. Especially when it's something for the good and not the bad. I would love to be able to see my fam and friends. Just look at how popular skype is. When I'm in class everyone has a laptop now and half of them are video chatting with someone.
    Have you ever read "The Murderer" by Kurt Vonnegut? The main character goes a little crazy from oversaturation of technology... it was really interesting to note how old the story is, yet a lot of the technologies he is terrified of are now common place. They had wireless phones people wore as watches that anyone could contact them at any time. While riding public transportation people were so terrified of looking at each other they would tap away at little devices to send mail or talk on their watches (this happens now, very much so)... there was music and advertising everywhere...
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    For example, Dell sells more computers than Apple. Yet dell's finacials are a mess. Marketshare doesn't mean everything.
    Someone better inform Dell!

    Seriously getting off topic here. Whatever the point is you are trying to make, you win. There.

    Tholap, I agree with you 100%. We are already seeing more front-facing cameras on phones, which I attribute in large part as a response to Apple's marketing. As I pointed out and as you have noticed yourself, while the capability is there, no one really uses it. But a selling point is a selling point, and if Apple is selling phones because of it, then sure enough the rest of the manufacturers will follow, and we'll all have forward facing cameras that we will rarely if ever use, as in the case with my buddies and their EVOs. As you pointed out 7% tried video chat, which means 93% haven't even bothered, and we don't know how many of the 7% continue to actually use it. I could count myself among the 7% that have tried video chat, but I certainly don't use it.

    However this does sometimes lead to new technology developments as the APIs are released and new uses are found. For instance, who would have thought there would be any use for a compass in a phone with GPS? But that led to fancy stargazing apps, one of the most impressive smartphone apps I have seen, IMO. I predict that sooner rather than later we will be seeing apps that utilize the front-facing camera for uses other than video chat.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Not really. I mean you can look specifically at past examples of this very form of communication and see that that's not really true.
    You're probably right. Tablets will never catch on either. I remember how much time, money, and effort MS put into trying to make it work, and... we see where that got them.

    Also, an insignificant company with a cult following like, say, Apple, couldn't possibly set, or should I say, reset a trend like video phone calls.

    Sorry. Before the iPhone, a front camera was just a gimmick that no on cared about in the US. Now, its table stakes. Companies have to ante up, or get out of the game.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Sorry. Before the iPhone, a front camera was just a gimmick that no on cared about in the US. Now, its table stakes. Companies have to ante up, or get out of the game.
    Yes and no. It is still a gimmick. The only reason anyone cares about it is because of Apple's incredibly effective marketing of that feature, not because anyone actually wants/needs it. Apparently Mobileman does, but he is certainly the exception, not the rule. Still, a selling point is a selling point, and thanks to Apple's successful marketing of the feature, we will all have it, at least for a while.

    However, if other gotta-have-it apps are not developed to make use of the forward-facing camera, I predict the front-facing camera will be a fad rather than a staple, and that it will eventually share the same fate as Push-to-Talk. It's all up to the devs.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Before the iPhone, a front camera was just a gimmick that no on cared about in the US.
    And by "before" you mean because of right? It's a gimmick no one cares about. How many people went out to buy an iPhone specifically for THAT camera? How many people specifically chose the EVO for THAT camera? How many people chose other phones because they don't care about THAT camera?

    And then how many people with THAT camera actually make use of it? Just because some people find a gimmick useful doesn't make it any less of a gimmick.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You're annoyed because Apple sells new features to their customers?
    What did he say that led you to the conclusion that he's "annoyed" about them selling the feature? I thought he was just explaining why he thought it was a bit "overhyped".
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Oh wow, this just too much fun......

    Stop the presses, 3 of your friends are getting rid of their iPhones. That's all the proof I need. I'm going to sell my Apple stock (I wish I still had Apple stock as it is now over $300 a share).

    Your right about not trusting surveys though. I mean why listen to JD Powers when 3 of your friends say otherwise.
    To be fair, how is his example of his 3 friends any different than your example of ... oh yeah, one person using it. Yeah, now I see the difference, his sample is 3 times as big as yours.

    C'mon guy, lighten up. This is a discussion. He doesn't see much value in the feature, you do. Ironically, both of you have phones that have the feature. I'd have to say, his view has some credence given the facts at hand...
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    It sounds like there is fortune to be made here shorting Apple stock since it's at $300 right now. Some of you guys certainly could get rich if people stop buying Apple products in droves.
    Yep, all of those guys in this thread that predicted that people were going to quit bying in droves. Let's see... there was .... hmmm .... who was that now...?

    Seriously folks, quit dissin' the i. Some folks are getting a little annoyed and swinging about wildly...
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Yep your right, one just has to look at Apple's share price to get a good indication that this company is doomed to failure once the Kool-Aid wears off.
    Your rebuttal would be valid, if he had said anything similar to "this company is doomed to failure".

    He didnt' say they were doomed, or that their financials looked bad, or that they were loosing money company wide or even phone specific. He did say that they're losing market share. I know a lot of iPhans don't like to hear that kind of news, but even though this is a Pre forum, and the trend has been to bash the Pre (by some) around here lately, folks are allowed to point out issues for other companys as well...
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    What's more important to a company, marketshare or revenue?
    Sort of like asking someone which is more important to them, a job or food. Unfortunately, one tends to depend on the other in the long term.

    If you're asserting that a dwindling marketshare isn't worrisome for Apple, then I submit you don't know what you're talking about, and the rest of the discussion is sort of moot.

    Does it mean they're lost? Nope. Does it mean that another company doesn't envy their profits? Nope. But, it is a bad sign, and one I'm sure they'd like to correct.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    ...
    Sorry. Before the iPhone, a front camera was just a gimmick that no on cared about in the US. Now, its table stakes. Companies have to ante up, or get out of the game.
    Yep, everyone needs to copy Apple, or get out of the game. The iPhans say so.
  19. #79  
    Some of you video doubters are forgetting an important bit. Apple didn't just slap a camera on the front of the phone and call it a day. They made it a part of the phone call. There is no third-party app sign-up necessary. If you can make a phone call, you can video call. That is a significant differentiator.

    Second, the wifi limit will be lifted in 2011. Therefore, it will not matter where you are. Tablets were gimmicks until someone figured out how to make them useful. Smartphones were dead to the average consumer until someone figured out how to make them useful. Video chatting on an EVO is just another out-of-reach, computer function. Video calling on an iPhone is just a phone call.

    You people should be getting tired of being wrong about what Apple can reinvent, and turn into a success. Video calls are here to stay, and will only get better and easier as the weeks progress.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Some of you video doubters are forgetting an important bit. Apple didn't just slap a camera on the front of the phone and call it a day. They made it a part of the phone call. There is no third-party app sign-up necessary. If you can make a phone call, you can video call. That is a significant differentiator.

    Second, the wifi limit will be lifted in 2011. Therefore, it will not matter where you are. Tablets were gimmicks until someone figured out how to make them useful. Smartphones were dead to the average consumer until someone figured out how to make them useful. Video chatting on an EVO is just another out-of-reach, computer function. Video calling on an iPhone is just a phone call.

    You people should be getting tired of being wrong about what Apple can reinvent, and turn into a success. Video calls are here to stay, and will only get better and easier as the weeks progress.
    Cool story.
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