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  1. #41  
    Of my friends that have EVOs, I am the only one that has made any video chat calls from their devices. It was entertaining for about two seconds.

    Apple is getting people to buy the iPhone for this capability because of their stellar marketing (as usual). I am sure we have all seen the various iPhone video chat commercials. People don't care (or even realize) that they can only make video chat calls on the iPhone via WiFi, and the don't even know that the EVO can make video chat calls, or that it can make them on Sprint's network. They see the emotionally moving video chat calls being made on the iPhone and they want it. Most probably will do what I did and make one video call to try it out, then never use the feature again.

    The ONLY thing I can't fault Apple on is their incredible marketing. If it were not for marketing, Apple would not be anywhere near as popular as it is. People are all too willing to buy into the image that Apple is creating for itself. This is what drives me so nuts about Apple and the Apple faithful.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Of my friends that have EVOs, I am the only one that has made any video chat calls from their devices. It was entertaining for about two seconds.

    Apple is getting people to buy the iPhone for this capability because of their stellar marketing (as usual). I am sure we have all seen the various iPhone video chat commercials. People don't care (or even realize) that they can only make video chat calls on the iPhone via WiFi, and the don't even know that the EVO can make video chat calls, or that it can make them on Sprint's network. They see the emotionally moving video chat calls being made on the iPhone and they want it. Most probably will do what I did and make one video call to try it out, then never use the feature again.

    The ONLY thing I can't fault Apple on is their incredible marketing. If it were not for marketing, Apple would not be anywhere near as popular as it is. People are all too willing to buy into the image that Apple is creating for itself. This is what drives me so nuts about Apple and the Apple faithful.
    You're annoyed because Apple sells new features to their customers?
  3. #43  
    I am annoyed at Apple for marrying the best marketing department in the world with a ho-hum company selling ho-hum products at extremely high margins, and I am annoyed at the Apple fanpeople who will buy anything and everything Apple decides to slap an "i" in front of.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Of my friends that have EVOs, I am the only one that has made any video chat calls from their devices. It was entertaining for about two seconds.

    Apple is getting people to buy the iPhone for this capability because of their stellar marketing (as usual). I am sure we have all seen the various iPhone video chat commercials. People don't care (or even realize) that they can only make video chat calls on the iPhone via WiFi, and the don't even know that the EVO can make video chat calls, or that it can make them on Sprint's network. They see the emotionally moving video chat calls being made on the iPhone and they want it. Most probably will do what I did and make one video call to try it out, then never use the feature again.

    The ONLY thing I can't fault Apple on is their incredible marketing. If it were not for marketing, Apple would not be anywhere near as popular as it is. People are all too willing to buy into the image that Apple is creating for itself. This is what drives me so nuts about Apple and the Apple faithful.
    Have you ever used FaceTime? The quality of video is extremely good, and its integrated right into the contact list. No launching an app, or logging into a service to use.

    I tried Video Chat on the EVO using the Qik application. There is absolutely no comparison. It seems that you dislike video chat because of your Android experience. I guess I don't blame you.
  5. #45  
    Okay, but at some point you have to figure that people will eventually discover Apple is selling them snake oil and stop buying their products.

    That's not happening. People are buying Macs, iPhones, iPods and iPads in ridiculous numbers. Marketing only gets you so far if you can't deliver on your promises.

    I think a more likely reason for that is because Apple makes good products and people generally like them.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    I am annoyed at Apple for marrying the best marketing department in the world with a ho-hum company selling ho-hum products at extremely high margins, and I am annoyed at the Apple fanpeople who will buy anything and everything Apple decides to slap an "i" in front of.
    yep, 100 million iOS devices sold and in reality, nobody really likes them. They only buy them for the "i" in the name. Forget all the customer satisfaction statistics (like JD Powers), when we all know these are just "ho-hum" products.
  7. #47  
    I did not dislike the video chat experience. It worked very well on the EVO, over Sprint's network. My point was that the reason people are being drawn to the iPhone's video chat feature is the marketing of that feature and the belief that they will use it. However, once they use it and the novelty wears off, the practicality of such a feature--especially when limited to WiFi as on the iPhone--is somewhere in the neighborhood of zero.

    My point with the EVO comparison was that, even without the WiFi limitation, the desire to actually use video chat on a regular basis just isn't there. Most of us aren't making the emotionally moving video chat calls depicted in the iPhone commercials on a regular basis. But hey, it sells phones.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    the reason people are being drawn to the iPhone's video chat feature is the marketing of that feature and the belief that they will use it. However, once they use it and the novelty wears off, the practicality of such a feature--especially when limited to WiFi as on the iPhone--is somewhere in the neighborhood of zero.
    and here I am using Facetime multiple times per week. I'm just a sucker that has fallen for ingenious Apple marketing. I got to remember that because in a few minutes, I will be FaceTiming home to talk to my 7 year old son who wants to show me the Halloween costume he purchased today.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    yep, 100 million iOS devices sold and in reality, nobody really likes them. They only buy them for the "i" in the name. Forget all the customer satisfaction statistics (like JD Powers), when we all know these are just "ho-hum" products.
    I sense your sarcasm, but reality is starting to set in for many iPhone users. Instead of listening to survey responses, all one has to do is look at the market. You cannot trust survey responses from fanpeople, and if Apple is successful at anything, it is making fanpeople.

    In my microcosm of friends and clients, a grand total of three people own iPhones, and two of those are looking to switch. One is dissatisfied with the performance of iOS4 running on his 3GS, and the other is corporate power-user who admits he was sold by the marketing, but is discovering he is unhappy with the lack of a physical keyboard and is considering going to BlackBerry.

    The third iPhone user not abandoning their device is what I suspect many iPhone customers are: someone that just wanted a cool phone and doesn't really care about what it can or can't do.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    and here I am using Facetime multiple times per week. I'm just a sucker that has fallen for ingenious Apple marketing. I got to remember that because in a few minutes, I will be FaceTiming home to talk to my 7 year old son who wants to show me the Halloween costume he purchased today.
    Alright, you have fun with that.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    I sense your sarcasm, but reality is starting to set in for many iPhone users. Instead of listening to survey responses, all one has to do is look at the market. You cannot trust survey responses from fanpeople, and if Apple is successful at anything, it is making fanpeople.

    In my microcosm of friends and clients, a grand total of three people own iPhones, and two of those are looking to switch. One is dissatisfied with the performance of iOS4 running on his 3GS, and the other is corporate power-user who admits he was sold by the marketing, but is discovering he is unhappy with the lack of a physical keyboard and is considering going to BlackBerry.

    The third iPhone user not abandoning their device is what I suspect many iPhone customers are: someone that just wanted a cool phone and doesn't really care about what it can or can't do.
    Sounds like it's a wrap for the iPhone.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    I sense your sarcasm, but reality is starting to set in for many iPhone users. Instead of listening to survey responses, all one has to do is look at the market. You cannot trust survey responses from fanpeople, and if Apple is successful at anything, it is making fanpeople.

    In my microcosm of friends and clients, a grand total of three people own iPhones, and two of those are looking to switch. One is dissatisfied with the performance of iOS4 running on his 3GS, and the other is corporate power-user who admits he was sold by the marketing, but is discovering he is unhappy with the lack of a physical keyboard and is considering going to BlackBerry.

    The third iPhone user not abandoning their device is what I suspect many iPhone customers are: someone that just wanted a cool phone and doesn't really care about what it can or can't do.
    Oh wow, this just too much fun......

    Stop the presses, 3 of your friends are getting rid of their iPhones. That's all the proof I need. I'm going to sell my Apple stock (I wish I still had Apple stock as it is now over $300 a share).

    Your right about not trusting surveys though. I mean why listen to JD Powers when 3 of your friends say otherwise.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    the device's size is a HUGE limiting factor and if they want to keep this form factor, a second camera is probably EXTREMELY low on their priority list.
    and you know this how?
    How do I know that size is a limiting factor or how do I come to my conclusion that a second camera is a low priority for this device?

    The first is simple engineering design and size is a limiting factor here. With the Pre the best options you could have with placing a front facing camera would be to try to put it up top and push the receiver over off-center, try to put it in the gesture area and setup a lens system that wouldn't interfere with the functionality of the gesture area while also not degrading the image quality of the camera, or try to place a camera somewhere at the bottom of the keyboard to use when you slide it out. Given how some people already find the keyboard rather awkward I can't see that last idea being very popular.

    The second is simply based on them keeping this form factor alive. If they were really really concerned with a front facing camera the Pre form factor would not be the design they would try to push it in. At best you might see a modified Pre design that was larger which I doubt they want to bother with if they are making a slab later that will be larger anyways.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    I sense your sarcasm, but reality is starting to set in for many iPhone users. Instead of listening to survey responses, all one has to do is look at the market. You cannot trust survey responses from fanpeople, and if Apple is successful at anything, it is making fanpeople.

    In my microcosm of friends and clients, a grand total of three people own iPhones, and two of those are looking to switch. One is dissatisfied with the performance of iOS4 running on his 3GS, and the other is corporate power-user who admits he was sold by the marketing, but is discovering he is unhappy with the lack of a physical keyboard and is considering going to BlackBerry.

    The third iPhone user not abandoning their device is what I suspect many iPhone customers are: someone that just wanted a cool phone and doesn't really care about what it can or can't do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    How do I know that size is a limiting factor or how do I come to my conclusion that a second camera is a low priority for this device?

    The first is simple engineering design and size is a limiting factor here. With the Pre the best options you could have with placing a front facing camera would be to try to put it up top and push the receiver over off-center, try to put it in the gesture area and setup a lens system that wouldn't interfere with the functionality of the gesture area while also not degrading the image quality of the camera, or try to place a camera somewhere at the bottom of the keyboard to use when you slide it out. Given how some people already find the keyboard rather awkward I can't see that last idea being very popular.

    The second is simply based on them keeping this form factor alive. If they were really really concerned with a front facing camera the Pre form factor would not be the design they would try to push it in. At best you might see a modified Pre design that was larger which I doubt they want to bother with if they are making a slab later that will be larger anyways.
    ah, I see. Well, I still find it hard to believe HP engineers couldn't find a way to fit a tiny front facing camera in a new Pre, they probably don't want to spend a lot of deign time and money on a device that's in serious need of replacement.
  15. #55  
    I was speaking from my own experience, but I am certainly not the only person or even the first person to notice the trend:

    Report: Apple, RIM losing market share to Android | Wireless - CNET News

    iPhone Continues Losing Market Share to Android: Apple

    Apple Losing Market Share to Android, iPhone 4 Didn't Help

    Apple's iPhone Is Now Losing Market Share

    Apple iOS Losing Market Share to Android | Geek with Laptop

    Apple Continued To Lose U.S. Marketshare Despite Spike From iPhone 4 Sales | mocoNews

    Not that I believe Apple will ever fold, but once the "I gotta have an iPhone!" wears off of people that are not drinking the Kool-Aid... Well, I think the results speak for themselves.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    I was speaking from my own experience, but I am certainly not the only person or even the first person to notice the trend:

    Report: Apple, RIM losing market share to Android | Wireless - CNET News

    iPhone Continues Losing Market Share to Android: Apple

    Apple Losing Market Share to Android, iPhone 4 Didn't Help

    Apple's iPhone Is Now Losing Market Share

    Apple iOS Losing Market Share to Android | Geek with Laptop

    Apple Continued To Lose U.S. Marketshare Despite Spike From iPhone 4 Sales | mocoNews

    Not that I believe Apple will ever fold, but once the "I gotta have an iPhone!" wears off of people that are not drinking the Kool-Aid... Well, I think the results speak for themselves.
    Yep your right, one just has to look at Apple's share price to get a good indication that this company is doomed to failure once the Kool-Aid wears off.

    In two days Apple will release their 4th quarter financials. Most analysts agree it will be another record quarter for apple. Lets see who is right, the Analysts, or your 3 friends.
  17. #57  
    I am sure it will be a record for Apple, as it will be a record for nearly all smartphone manufacturers since the entire segment is growing rapidly. So that doesn't really say anything. It's all about market share. But you keep on carrying that torch.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by migs View Post
    Video chat popularity growing in U.S., study says - CNN.com

    I was so dissappointed to hear that the Pre 2 will not have a front facing camera or compass and then I ran across this article today....

    The iPhone 4 Facetime has been invoking sales just for this feature alone. Still hoping the US Pre 2 or variant will surprise us with a front facing camera
    From the article:
    Mobile may prove to be a market with major potential for growth. Pew's report, which surveyed 3,001 U.S. adults, found that 7 percent of cell phone owners had tried some form of video chat.
    Please note "potential" and "7 percent" "tried".
    At the beginning the article mentioned " video-chat service, such as Skype, Google Talk or iChat" - in practice almost all of that is Skype on a desktop computer.

    Fact is that video chat has been available on european UMTS phones for years and actively pushed by carriers with TV ads. I know plenty of people with phones capable of video chat. Not a single one of them is using it.

    You need good bandwidth for videochat - which is easy enough with DSL but often problematic on 3G networks. And unless you are on Wifi the cost can easily hurt your wallet.

    Cost and bandwidth aside - video chat is not very useful to most people most of the time on their phone.

    Sure - some people will use it - especially those away from loved ones. But it's not a killer feature.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    I am sure it will be a record for Apple, as it will be a record for nearly all smartphone manufacturers since the entire segment is growing rapidly. So that doesn't really say anything. It's all about market share. But you keep on carrying that torch.
    except for Nokia, Palm, Microsoft. But who are they anyway?....
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Sure - some people will use it - especially those away from loved ones. But it's not a killer feature.
    Who determines what a killer feature is? I will never buy another mobile device without videochat. Therefore it is a necessary feature for me. VideoChat on mobiles has been a failure because the quality and ease of use has never been that good.

    Again, maybe you guys should try facetime before you comment. Next year when the iPad has it, and hopefully other vendors support facetime you will see the popularity of this feature grow tremendously.
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