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  1.    #1  
    Hi all,

    I was going to use the Title, "Why do people hate Palm?", but that seemed a bit negative. I'm posting cuz I'm looking at replacing my old, worn, tired Treo 680 with a Pre+. Every time I go to an ATT or Verizon store and ask about the Pre, they say things like, "Oh, you don't want a Palm!" They steer me to a Droid or iPhone (or similar). I ask what's wrong with the Pre. One place said everyone that buys a Pre comes back to exchange it. Other say it's slow or too old or not current.

    Maybe people are more for Droid and iPhone than against Pre? Maybe younguns like Google and do anything to promote them (and demote others?). I have no problem with Google; Google Maps on my 680 is great!

    I've watched and read many reviews comparing Pre/iPhone/Droid, etc and was surprised to see that they don't totally trash the Pre. They never say it wins, but their reasons are usually things that don't matter much to me. Their biggest reason to go iPhone or Droid is cuz they are 200,000+ apps available! Uh, not a factor for me. I find available for the Pre+ all I need for now.

    Well, I'll wait and see what the new, soon (I hope!) to be announced P102UEU can do and then decide.

    OK, better get back to work . . . .

    Dan
    Sharp YO-370 -> HP 200LX -> Palm m125 -> Palm Treo 680 -> Pre 2

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -Albert Einstein
  2. #2  
    Your first mistake was going into a Verizon or ATT store to buy a new device. If I was going to buy a device I'd either do it from a from a licensed retailer that doesn't give commissions, then you get a more honest opinion of devices, or just buy it direct from Verizon or ATT's web site.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaudenti View Post
    Hi all,

    I was going to use the Title, "Why do people hate Palm?", but that seemed a bit negative. I'm posting cuz I'm looking at replacing my old, worn, tired Treo 680 with a Pre+. Every time I go to an ATT or Verizon store and ask about the Pre, they say things like, "Oh, you don't want a Palm!" They steer me to a Droid or iPhone (or similar). I ask what's wrong with the Pre. One place said everyone that buys a Pre comes back to exchange it. Other say it's slow or too old or not current.

    Maybe people are more for Droid and iPhone than against Pre? Maybe younguns like Google and do anything to promote them (and demote others?). I have no problem with Google; Google Maps on my 680 is great!

    I've watched and read many reviews comparing Pre/iPhone/Droid, etc and was surprised to see that they don't totally trash the Pre. They never say it wins, but their reasons are usually things that don't matter much to me. Their biggest reason to go iPhone or Droid is cuz they are 200,000+ apps available! Uh, not a factor for me. I find available for the Pre+ all I need for now.

    Well, I'll wait and see what the new, soon (I hope!) to be announced P102UEU can do and then decide.

    OK, better get back to work . . . .

    Dan
    there are, IMHO, a number of reasons for this.


    1)Contrary to popular Belief the Palm Brand, is NOT synonymous with anything positive, except for maybe DateBK, and even than many people have their own horror stories of the old PalmOS resets, calendar crashes, lost information, bad desktop software etc....

    I have MANY customers who, as soon as i have mentioned Palm, gave me responses like... "I dont want to see another PALM again" etc.. i have to trick them to understanding that the NEW Palm is Very very different.

    2)Commissions Commissions Commissions!!!! (refers to kickbacks given to Authorized retailers not the salesmen)
    The fact of the matter is, when the Palm Pre Plus Launched, Bothe Verizon and ATT, Authorized Dealers had to pay big bucks just to stock the phone, with not enough commissions being brought in to support selling it, until it was too late. Because by that time all salesmen not only barely tried the palm but where in a routine to sell (a) what makes them money Guaranteed [as they dont have to worry too much on returns abnout products they know] and (b) there are many more choices, once you get into the groove of selling something , especially something that everyone is talking about, selling is easier.

    so its a lot of combinations of things.

    from Missteps from Palm at the time for not giving more incentives, and the sheer onslaught of other devices etched in everyones mind , makes the OS a lonely one
  4. #4  
    I like my Pre a lot, had it almost since launch. I've used Palm products since the 1K Pilot. Suits my needs. But the company has been behind others for many years now. When you've got ten or so hardware options for Android, Microsoft releasing three devices at once on ATT, and Apple dominating the market, the fact that WebOS is probably the "best" OS becomes largely unimportant to MOST buyers. They are incredibly tedious, unaggressive, secretive about their devices and just plain slow to the market. You would think that would make their hardware excellent, but in fact the hardware is just average in terms of reliability. I would imagine I will stick with them, but I certainly see why others have deserted and most young buyers never even know they exist. That's why nobody recognizes your phone, right? Hopefully HP can light a fire under them and expand the hardware line and get things to market more quickly. After all, if you consider the Pixi and the Pre the same device (which they are largely), Palm has put out how many devices in the last four years or so? ONE? That won't cut it, no matter how much we love our Pres.
  5. #5  
    if you like a slow and outdated device then get the pre+, i had the pre for 15 months and was in love with it, but then decided to get the evo even though i thought b4 that it was clunky and whatnot, but i absolutely disagree with it being clunky. i love my evo and believe android is incredibly superior to webOS, i am looking forward to see what the new webOS device has but ive been reading its gonna sport a 1ghz processor and a 512 mb of ram. my evo has a 1ghz processor and has 512 mb of ram so im my opinion, hp/palm is not really putting new stuff out there, even the pre+ already has 512mb of ram. i would love for it to have 1gb of ram but of course they probably dont think we would need it. I'm 23 years old and i believe having the best thing out there is a plus. and if they're gonna put out something that highend phones came out with already 3-4 months ago then palm/hp is not gonna sell many pre2 or w.e unless you're a die hard palm fan and hate apple/android
    Juan

    2010-2011 Champions!

  6. #6  
    The answer to why salespeople push droids and iPhones is all about bonuses and commisions. Google and Apple are giving away money to salespeople to get them to sell those phones to you. It's now about what you want, it's about what goes in their pockets.

    And a second thought I had about this issue is, can you remember prior to the iPod coming out? I was a die-hard Mac guy (and still use one at home), and I wondered why more people didn't choose Mac's over PC's? The answer at the time was initial price point for Mac's, and the lack of good software titles being written for the platform, mainly from third-party app developers.

    Then along came the iPod and iTunes. Apple spent A LOT of money building a simple-to-use product and ecosystem to deliver music. Instead of Napster, people had a legitimate way to download music and it only cost $.99.

    Then they turned their attention to phones and third-party apps for $.99. Once again, the form factor was simple yet effective, and different.

    Now Apple is rolling in the dough and about to named the most pofitable company in the world.

    I'm not expecting HP to overthrow Apple for the title, but while this small community of Palm devotees are crying about a new phone (apparently a spec-bumped Pre2 is coming out, which isn't "good-enough" for people), HP is working behind the scenes to build an entire eco-system, just like Apple has done. That can't happen in 4 mos, or 6 mos, and will be a miracle if it happens before 9 mos, of owning webOS. Whereas Apple has had 4 -10 years to build their eco-system, we want HP to just snap their fingers and make it happen.

    Look at the WP7 phones that came out today. Are any of those that highly superior to the Pre2 that was leaked today? The plain answer is no. They are pretty much the top of the line, as it stands in October 2010. But by next spring, faster processors are suppoed to be available to manufacturers that will make 1.0ghz phones seem like those ancient desktop computers we owned 5 years ago.

    The way mobile technology is moving these days, the next best thing is only a few months away.

    Am I happy that only a spec-bumped phone was leaked? Yeah probably, I want something new and shiny from Palm like most people. But am I realistic enough to understand that won't happen until Q1 2011. Yes.

    People don't "not like" Palm, HP, or webOS. At this point, "people" don't know about them. It will take a lot of money and marketing before we see this platform really take off. And don't expect that to happen until next year, at the earliest.
  7. jkeitz's Avatar
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    #7  
    I hate to say it, but it all comes down to marketing. Apple has gotten it to the point where they can release anything with the fruit on the back and the iDiots will flock to buy it for that reason alone. With the Android phones, they largely piggyback on the Droid marketing campaign. Look at that one, they used Terminator/Cylon imagry married to a name everyone knows from Star Wars. On top of it, whenever someone gets a text message in the room, everyone hears the trademark "Drooooid." Most smartphone users aren't sophisticated enough to know how to change that sound (and I'll grant that some think it's cool and keep it that way) so every text message sent equals a marketing bump.

    Since most people buy what most other people buy, marketing is key. Palm started out with a fraction of the marketing budget of the other companies. Then they made two key mistakes. First, they hired the creepy albino woman as their spokesthing. Then, rather than running commercials, they relied on product placement. That works fine except when your product isn't functional when it is placed. How many times have we seen Chuck answer his iPhone on the screen, where we can see what happens? Then see how many times Det. Beckett, or Jack Bauer, or Bones, or everyone on Flash Foward slides open that keyboard on the black phone that we all know is a Pre? But you NEVER see someone use one. How do you sell people on a product that they never see in use? If you place a product in the woods, is it really placed? In fact, the coolest product placement for the Pre was on Chuck, when a Ring operative left a "prototype" phone behind at the Buy More. It was a Pre. That was a cool idea. Too bad they didn't do more of that.
  8. #8  
    The main reasons are:

    1. Build quality is horrible
    2. Battery life is ridiculously bad
    3. Developer interest is horrible
    4. Variety of apps, # of apps is horrible

    i.e., there are things that are Palm's fault. It's not just advertising and what people say at Verizon stores, contrary to what some people believe.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    The main reasons are:

    1. Build quality is horrible
    2. Battery life is ridiculously bad
    3. Developer interest is horrible
    4. Variety of apps, # of apps is horrible

    i.e., there are things that are Palm's fault. It's not just advertising and what people say at Verizon stores, contrary to what some people believe.
    #'s 1 and 2 are valid.

    Developers are coming to WebOS all the time, even though it doesn't necessarily seem like it. And the variety of apps is great...not sure what you're looking for though. We have productivity apps, games, useless apps, etc just like the iPhone does...we just have a smaller percentage.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by callmechewy View Post
    #'s 1 and 2 are valid.

    Developers are coming to WebOS all the time, even though it doesn't necessarily seem like it. And the variety of apps is great...not sure what you're looking for though. We have productivity apps, games, useless apps, etc just like the iPhone does...we just have a smaller percentage.
    #3 is valid.

    #4: Look at lists of the top Android and iPhone apps. Most of them aren't available on WebOS. What would I like?

    -an uptodate app, a full epocrates app, a harrison's app, etc. Medical apps are sorely lacking
    -an evernote app that is >1.0
    -a yelp app where I can write reviews
    -support to write to .doc, .docx, edit .ppt, .pptx, etc... all those things docs2go promised
    -mint.com app
    -skype
    -dragon dictation
    -a better internet browser
    -words with friends

    Anyways, I hope I make my point clear. For some, the apps that are out are fine. For others, 4,000 apps minus apps from many major companies is a drawback.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by jkeitz View Post
    I hate to say it, but it all comes down to marketing. Apple has gotten it to the point where they can release anything with the fruit on the back and the iDiots will flock to buy it for that reason alone.
    Yeah, that's the only reason. I guess the fact that the iPhone 4 just tramples all over the Palm Pre has nothing to do with it, right?

    Or, the fact that Apple was the first manufacturer to bring out an tablet that people actually want to use. Mercedes Benz has actually deployed them to all their dealerships to help in closing the sale on their cars. PC manufacturers have been making tablets for over 10 years and Apple finally made one that Mercedes thought was worthy for them to use.

    Do you seriously think that marketing was the only reason MB decided to use the iPads in their dealerships?

    Sometimes I think Palm failed because they have listened to people like you that make stupid comments such as the one you posted.
    Last edited by SoFly; 10/11/2010 at 06:01 PM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Yeah, that's the only reason. I guess the fact that the iPhone 4 just tramples all over the Palm Pre has nothing to do with it, right?

    Or, the fact that Apple was the first manufacturer to bring out an table that people actually want to use. Mercedes Benz has actually deployed them to all their dealerships to help in closing the sale on their cars. PC manufacturers have been making tablets for over 10 years and Apple finally made one that Mercedes thought was worthy for them to use.

    Do you seriously think that marketing was the only reason MB decided to use the iPads in their dealerships?

    Sometimes I think Palm failed because they have listened to people like you that make stupid comments such as the one you posted.
    Than you havent listened to yourself lately...

    ok ill stop feeding the... well you know
  13. #13  
    I don't think it's so much not liking Palm as it is realizing how irrelevant they are and hoping it will change because we need the competition in this space.

    The problem is Palm has been a comedy of errors since the Pre was initially announced and, yet, people keep making flimsy excuses for them. The amount of potential your son had when he was a kid doesn't mean anything when he's 30 and living in your basement.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    Than you havent listened to yourself lately...

    ok ill stop feeding the... well you know
    You're funny. At least I don't go around saying over the top, closed-minded, untrue myths. Like if anybody buys anything Apple they are sheep, etc.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    The amount of potential your son had when he was a kid doesn't mean anything when he's 30 and living in your basement.
    But he just moved in less than a year ago after not being able to pay off his mortgage. He lost that job of his because issues with his car caused him to always be late, plus that traffic is always horrible. Just imagine how successful he'll be when he enters the job market again. He promised me he'd try harder.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    You're funny. At least I don't go around saying over the top, closed-minded, untrue myths. Like if anybody buys anything Apple they are sheep, etc.
    I have never said any such thing ( to my knowledge at least) regardless, no need to call people stupid for their opinions.

    I know you are a level headed person.. Just don't get so excited over this
    Breathe
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Or, the fact that Apple was the first manufacturer to bring out an table that people actually want to use.
    Who wouldn't want to use this table?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    I have never said any such thing ( to my knowledge at least) regardless, no need to call people stupid for their opinions.

    I know you are a level headed person.. Just don't get so excited over this
    Breathe
    But, it's OK for him to call a group of people idiots? That's a nice double standard.

    Anyone that follows this stuff, as we do, knows what he said was untrue, so why say it? Other than to be a ________. (I'll let you fill in the blank).
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    But he just moved in less than a year ago after not being able to pay off his mortgage. He lost that job of his because issues with his car caused him to always be late, plus that traffic is always horrible. Just imagine how successful he'll be when he enters the job market again. He promised me he'd try harder.
    And when he gets back on his feet again he'll burn through 8 years of med school in 6 months and become a surgeon!
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    But, it's OK for him to call a group of people idiots? That's a nice double standard.

    Anyone that follows this stuff, as we do, knows what he said was untrue, so why say it? Other than to be ________. (I'll let you fill in the blank).
    To tell you the truth I didn't read his post

    --Sent using Tap@Talk for webOS
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