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  1. barkins's Avatar
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       #1  
    Although HTC is dishing out new hardware every other month, in addition to Samsung and LG filling in the gaps between HTC releases, none of them will matter once 4G starts to roll and become the new standard.

    The way I see it, next year, Palm will release (fingers crossed) a new 4G device to compete with all the new HTC, Samsung, LG, etc. 4G devices evening things out for Palm. No one's going to compare a Palm 4G device to any of the new devices released right now. Heck, with the way things are going, the current phones out today will be outdated by early 2011.

    My suggestion for webOS fans is to stick with their Palm devices just a bit longer until HPalm presumably releases a killer 4G device.
    Palm Pre Plus on Verizon || I blog at butr.net
  2. #2  
    My contract doesn't update until next Christmas but I still hope the new device is on Verizon.
    I own a Verizon Palm Pre 2 running WebOS 2.0.1

    Here to help and learn
  3. #3  
    <<Thread Moved>>
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  4. #4  
    I have two years left in my contract, so I'm not worried either way.
  5. #5  
    I own a 4G phone...and honestly, its never going to be the voice standard unless they improve battery optimization with it.

    Secondarily, I think the speeds will only be beneficial to those who tether or the few times you need to download a large file to your phone.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkins View Post
    Although HTC is dishing out new hardware every other month, in addition to Samsung and LG filling in the gaps between HTC releases, none of them will matter once 4G starts to roll and become the new standard.

    The way I see it, next year, Palm will release (fingers crossed) a new 4G device to compete with all the new HTC, Samsung, LG, etc. 4G devices evening things out for Palm. No one's going to compare a Palm 4G device to any of the new devices released right now. Heck, with the way things are going, the current phones out today will be outdated by early 2011.

    My suggestion for webOS fans is to stick with their Palm devices just a bit longer until HPalm presumably releases a killer 4G device.
    1: Do you live and work in 4G area?
    2: How many major cities will have 4G by end of 2011?

    4G is not enough to level the playing field.

    You need the following

    1: Superior hardware on par or better than iPhone, Evo or Droid X
    2: Clear update path for OS
    3: Music/Video deals
    4: Developers, with killer WebOS exclusive apps
    5: WebOS ecosystem
    a: Desktop App for Webos on Win and Mac for synchng
    b: Music and Video store specifically for WebOs devices, no piggy backing on iTunes
    6: Synergy/Integration with other devices, meaning Webos can talk to and control other devices like the iPhone and Android phone future ability to control Google TV
    7: Superior MP3 player
    8: Larger screen
    9: Kill the Pre and Pixi names
    10: Superior sexy design of harware, the Pre and Pixi, as much as you may like them, was not it.
    11: Subscription applications, Netflix, Hulu, Hulu Plus, etc
    12: Reality Distortion Field greater than or equal to Apple. Spokesperson people can identify with, like Mac vs PC commercials. WebOS when ready needs a blitzkrieg.

    Without these things, all you have is a smartphone. Google/Android and Apple/iPhone have evolved into more than just smartphones. There is an ecosystem that people buy into.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 10/11/2010 at 03:37 PM.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    1: Do you live and work in 4G area?
    2: How many major cities will have 4G by end of 2011?

    4G is not enough to level the playing field.

    You need the following

    1: Superior hardware on par or better than iPhone, Evo or Droid X
    2: Clear update path for OS
    3: Music/Video deals
    4: Developers, with killer WebOS exclusive apps
    5: WebOS ecosystem
    a: Desktop App for Webos on Win and Mac for synchng
    b: Music and Video store specifically for WebOs devices, no piggy backing on iTunes
    6: Synergy/Integration with other devices, meaning Webos can talk to and control other devices like the iPhone and Android phone future ability to control Google TV
    7: Superior MP3 player
    8: Larger screen
    9: Kill the Pre and Pixi names
    10: Superior sexy design of harware, the Pre and Pixi, as much as you may like them, was not it.
    11: Subscription applications, Netflix, Hulu, Hulu Plus, etc
    12: Reality Distortion Field greater than or equal to Apple. Spokesperson people can identify with, like Mac vs PC commercials. WebOS when ready needs a blitzkrieg.

    Without these things, all you have is a smartphone. Google/Android and Apple/iPhone have evolved into more than just smartphones. There is an ecosystem that people buy into.
    IMO the Apple/iPhone ecosystem blows and most of the important parts of the Google ecosystem leak into webOS access already.

    No one needs desktop integration. In fact they should move even more toward Cloud integration. Instead of needing to download some piece of bloatware like iTunes to your desktop they can use browser-based integration that can be accessed from any desktop with an advanced web browser.

    A music and video store doesn't need to be made specific to webOS. They could expand on the Amazon MP3 deal to more tightly integrate that store and expand to the Amazon VOD store for downloads and streaming. Some more streaming media apps from other major players, Netflix, Hulu, etc. would help as well.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    IMO the Apple/iPhone ecosystem blows and most of the important parts of the Google ecosystem leak into webOS access already.
    Your one opinion of the ecosystem does not matter comapred the millionos that use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    No one needs desktop integration. In fact they should move even more toward Cloud integration. Instead of needing to download some piece of bloatware like iTunes to your desktop they can use browser-based integration that can be accessed from any desktop with an advanced web browser.
    Point taken on cloud, however not everyone wants or needs their info in the cloud. Some of my contacs are business related and I don't want that inforamation out of my "so called" control.
    Point taken on iTunes bloat, browser would probably be better. Nevertheless with cloud or desktop you are still syncing, which is my point. Remember the laughable sad story of how Palm try to synch with iTunes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    A music and video store doesn't need to be made specific to webOS. They could expand on the Amazon MP3 deal to more tightly integrate that store and expand to the Amazon VOD store for downloads and streaming. Some more streaming media apps from other major players, Netflix, Hulu, etc. would help as well.
    Not sure on what your vision of Amazon integration would entail, however if it does not involve a centralized way of keeping your music organized it would be no different than the old days of Windows Mobile 5, which we can see was stomped all over by the iTunes methodology.

    And nothing you mentioned has refuted my main point, 4G is not enough.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Your one opinion of the ecosystem does not matter comapred the millionos that use it.

    Point taken on cloud, however not everyone wants or needs their info in the cloud. Some of my contacs are business related and I don't want that inforamation out of my "so called" control.
    Point taken on iTunes bloat, browser would probably be better. Nevertheless with cloud or desktop you are still syncing, which is my point. Remember the laughable sad story of how Palm try to synch with iTunes?

    Not sure on what your vision of Amazon integration would entail, however if it does not involve a centralized way of keeping your music organized it would be no different than the old days of Windows Mobile 5, which we can see was stomped all over by the iTunes methodology.

    And nothing you mentioned has refuted my main point, 4G is not enough.
    Offer a better ecosystem and those that only use it because it's the best they have at the moment will leave.

    A Cloud can be potentially hosted by many different services HP, Dropbox, Google, or your own corporation's server. If you really need/want desktop only integration it's certainly possible to host your own "cloud" service for your mobile devices and they could opt to make it easier by developing an easy to implement desktop server program specifically for that purpose.

    If all you're referring to with music is organization people could use which ever organizational program they want to use to export to either cloud services or to the physical device. If your point is just getting a basic system supported specifically by HPalm then that goes back to the web browser integrated interface system that could have an organization system integrated as one of the tools.

    I never said anything about 4G nor do I really care about it. The best I can see for 4G is that it gives faster cloud interface when away from WiFi but I don't think that is going to be much of a factor especially if moving to 4G means seeing more and more companies moving to tiered data plans. Then 4G becomes a liability for ALL smartphones.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Offer a better ecosystem and those that only use it because it's the best they have at the moment will leave.
    This is obvious, point is where is it and will WebOs have it. If you turn around and say HP/Palm/WebOS don't need it, I would counter that could the lack of it, (besides other factors) may have contributed to the lack of adoption by the public. Even Palm thought it important enough to shamefully piggy back off of iTunes for a time, that is until Apple spanked them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    A Cloud can be potentially hosted by many different services HP, Dropbox, Google, or your own corporation's server. If you really need/want desktop only integration it's certainly possible to host your own "cloud" service for your mobile devices and they could opt to make it easier by developing an easy to implement desktop server program specifically for that purpose.
    OK, strach the desktop app.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    If all you're referring to with music is organization people could use which ever organizational program they want to use to export to either cloud services or to the physical device. If your point is just getting a basic system supported specifically by HPalm then that goes back to the web browser integrated interface system that could have an organization system integrated as one of the tools.
    We did not have cloud services back in the Treo/Ipaq etc. Days. Then along came Napster, people has there musid in on app. It was popular for that and other reason (free music). Whether its an app or a broswer makes no difference as long as it's centralized. And yes I mean a system by HPalm. Choice is good, but having the vendor that produces the device support a method is better. My daughter has had a few problems with iTunes. She can call Apple on a Sunday and get issues fixed. Its things like this that make the Apple model work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I never said anything about 4G nor do I really care about it. The best I can see for 4G is that it gives faster cloud interface when away from WiFi but I don't think that is going to be much of a factor especially if moving to 4G means seeing more and more companies moving to tiered data plans. Then 4G becomes a liability for ALL smartphones.
    Yes I realize that. The 4G is a liability statement is lost. It won't make a difference whether it's 4g or 3g, tiered plans unfortunately are the future.
  11. #11  
    Along this train of thought...

    If the little bit of info we have gotten about the upcoming WebOS devices, is that they will be offered on Verizon, which does not offer 4G and won't for the foreseeable future, then we have to assume the next wave of WebOS devices on Verizon will be 3G.

    IF Sprint, actually gets the next-gen WebOS device, and/or actually cares to, they STILL carry plenty of brand new, 3G devices and will for some time. What is the chance that the next WebOS device on Sprint will be 4G? What is the chance that YOU will buy it, if it's NOT?
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    Along this train of thought...

    If the little bit of info we have gotten about the upcoming WebOS devices, is that they will be offered on Verizon, which does not offer 4G and won't for the foreseeable future, then we have to assume the next wave of WebOS devices on Verizon will be 3G...
    Verizon announced their 4G (LTE) in 38 markets for later this year.

    The carriers need us using content that will demand 4G, that is streaming HD. That's how they will sell the next gen phones.

    I have 4G. I keep it turned off because it drains your battery. Unless you are streaming HD it does not make a difference.

    Text, email, and even photos, make little difference on 3G or 4G.

    - Craig
  13. RafRol's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Verizon announced their 4G (LTE) in 38 markets for later this year.

    The carriers need us using content that will demand 4G, that is streaming HD. That's how they will sell the next gen phones.

    I have 4G. I keep it turned off because it drains your battery. Unless you are streaming HD it does not make a difference.

    Text, email, and even photos, make little difference on 3G or 4G.

    - Craig
    Verizon also mentioned that they will support (and upgrade!) their 3G network for the foreseeable future, i.e. the next 10 years.
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    I have 4G. I keep it turned off because it drains your battery. Unless you are streaming HD it does not make a difference.
    Same here. But I also use it on the rare occasion that I'm not around wifi and need to talk and surf. Doesn't happen that often, but when I need it, I'm glad it's there.
  15. #15  
    I think 4G for the foreseeable future will be for those occasions you need the speed boost. Again, most likely for wireless tethering. I use it sometimes as well to download podcasts but then i turn it off.
  16. #16  
    4G drains your battery because turning it on puts your phone in hybrid 4G/3G failover mode. I don't expect using 4G exclusively will use more battery than 3G.

    So 4G is not a "game changer" at the moment. It is for early adopters who want to be able to say they were one of the first on 4G. For most of us, it's a non-issue until 4G is widespread enough that we can turn off 3G. I have several clients with EVOs who I haven't even bothered to explain to them what 4G is or how to turn it on, because--for now--it simply isn't relevant.

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