Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 32 of 32
  1. #21  
    Looks like WP7 will have some potential. Needs some time before I could actually consider it though...get some multitasking, apps, and copy n paste.

    It's really hard to imagine HP having any success with webOS.
  2. #22  
    The only way Palm can get app developers is to kill the PDK. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but my reasoning is sound, I think.

    We all know that the PDK is nothing more than an iPhone game porting kit. Palm pretty much gave up on Mojo. The whole webOS platform is based on ports. No platform can be taken seriously if it is based on ports from better platforms.

    If Palm were to build in unique features into webOS, very little would take advantage of it, as none of the apps on the platform would be natively written. There is zero incentive for anyone to write native apps since they can just easily port their work that was intended for another platform. Write once, deploy anywhere ensures a system of lowest-common-denominator products.

    iPhone apps are so good because they were written specifically for the iPhone's screen, processor, ram, UI, and overall experience. They feel at home on the iPhone because they are at home on the iPhone. KIRFing up a product as close in hardware to the iPhone as you can get, does not ensure a native experience when an app is ported.

    HP has to downplay the whole, "Port your iPhone apps quick and easy!" plan, and emphasize why it is important to write natively for webOS. If they can't do that, no one will ever see the point of getting something other than an iPhone, since those are the apps they will be running anyway.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    The only way Palm can get app developers is to kill the PDK. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but my reasoning is sound, I think.

    We all know that the PDK is nothing more than an iPhone game porting kit. Palm pretty much gave up on Mojo. The whole webOS platform is based on ports. No platform can be taken seriously if it is based on ports from better platforms.

    If Palm were to build in unique features into webOS, very little would take advantage of it, as none of the apps on the platform would be natively written. There is zero incentive for anyone to write native apps since they can just easily port their work that was intended for another platform. Write once, deploy anywhere ensures a system of lowest-common-denominator products.

    iPhone apps are so good because they were written specifically for the iPhone's screen, processor, ram, UI, and overall experience. They feel at home on the iPhone because they are at home on the iPhone. KIRFing up a product as close in hardware to the iPhone as you can get, does not ensure a native experience when an app is ported.

    HP has to downplay the whole, "Port your iPhone apps quick and easy!" plan, and emphasize why it is important to write natively for webOS. If they can't do that, no one will ever see the point of getting something other than an iPhone, since those are the apps they will be running anyway.

    There are 2 ways to get developers to make apps for your OS when you have no (or at least not many) users.

    Bribe them with billions in incentives and marketing (like M$) or make it simple to port.

    We'll see in a year or so how successful M$ has been in bootstrapping its app ecosystem. Long term I doubt they will continue to bride developers forever.

    If they don't wrest major market share for their OS, developers are not going to write WP7 apps.

    HP is never going to push the chips in like M$.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    There are 2 ways to get developers to make apps for your OS when you have no (or at least not many) users... Bribe them with billions in incentives and marketing (like M$) or make it simple to port.
    As you stated, bribing is expensive and unsustainable. But it also shares a fatal flaw with porting. The problem is disinterested developers. A bribed developer is not interested in the platform; they are interested in your money. With Ports, the problem is even worse. Developers are really interested in someone else's platform. They have zero incentive to ever write a native app for you.

    There is a third option which should be obvious. Both bribing and begging are two sides of the same coin. Developers are not excited by, or even interested in your platform. You have to appeal to people who could care less about the platform's success.

    The third option is to build a product that excites developers as end users, not just business people. You don't build a platform, then slap a product onto it like an awkward appendage. You build a product that people love, and the platform will come on its own.

    Speaker dock makers, case makers, screen protector makers, app developers, content producers, even advertisers, and customers will beat a path to your door if you make something people want. You can't make people want it by trying to artificially build an ecosystem.

    The iPhone had developers demanding a chance to write for it long before there was an app store, and long before it redefined the consumer smartphone as we know it. There is no substitute for building a compelling product. The good news is that once the compelling product is out there, you will have to make rules to limit the number and type of developers you allow.
  5. aapold's Avatar
    Posts
    292 Posts
    Global Posts
    834 Global Posts
    #25  
    2000 apps?

    I have a Zune HD, they pushed out an update to the Zune Marketplace to support Windows 7, now when you go to apps you have a section of Windows PHone 7 apps that it tells you only work with windows phone 7.

    I don't know if there is some larger marketplace that has more stuff than you see here, but as of this morning there are....

    lessee 30 rows of 6 apps.... a total of 180 apps. Of which there are a grand total of 7 games: Frogger, Flowerz, Star Wars: Battle for Hoth, Hexic Rush, Bejeweled Live, Twin Blades: The Reaping and Rocket Riot.

    I don't know if they can run Zune HD apps, but if so that would net you another 30 apps (21 games), including three new games which just debuted when the Zune Marketplace updated to support windows 7.

    That being said if it has the same music player we get with ZuneHD, that is lightyears ahead of the native palm music player, the remix one, the android default one and better than the IOS player as well.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by aapold View Post
    That being said if it has the same music player we get with ZuneHD, that is lightyears ahead of the native palm music player, the remix one, the android default one and better than the IOS player as well.
    In what ways do you think the ZuneHD is lightyears ahead of Music Player (Remix) 2.0? I'm the developer of this app and would be interested in hearing what specific features are lightyears ahead of my app. I've seen a few videos showing off the ZuneHD and I don't see anything that I would consider to be lightyears ahead. In fact, I think the opposite is true concerning some of the features in my app that the ZuneHD or frankly any other mobile music app can't touch. The only ZuneHD feature that stands out is the History list, but I'm planning a similar feature in my app. And the animations in the interface are nice.

    So let me know which features in the ZuneHD you were thinking about.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by aapold View Post
    2000 apps?

    I have a Zune HD, they pushed out an update to the Zune Marketplace to support Windows 7, now when you go to apps you have a section of Windows PHone 7 apps that it tells you only work with windows phone 7.

    I don't know if there is some larger marketplace that has more stuff than you see here, but as of this morning there are....

    lessee 30 rows of 6 apps.... a total of 180 apps. Of which there are a grand total of 7 games: Frogger, Flowerz, Star Wars: Battle for Hoth, Hexic Rush, Bejeweled Live, Twin Blades: The Reaping and Rocket Riot.

    I don't know if they can run Zune HD apps, but if so that would net you another 30 apps (21 games), including three new games which just debuted when the Zune Marketplace updated to support windows 7.

    That being said if it has the same music player we get with ZuneHD, that is lightyears ahead of the native palm music player, the remix one, the android default one and better than the IOS player as well.
    Those 180 apps are ZuneHD apps. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Windows Phone 7 apps will run on ZuneHD. Well, at least not all of them.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    The only way Palm can get app developers is to kill the PDK. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but my reasoning is sound, I think.
    Have to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    We all know that the PDK is nothing more than an iPhone game porting kit. Palm pretty much gave up on Mojo. The whole webOS platform is based on ports. No platform can be taken seriously if it is based on ports from better platforms.
    "We" know no such thing. You can believe whatever you want of course.
    The PDK is a low level implementation API. Apple had to add that too.
    Beyond that it made sense to make it easy and show hot to port quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    If Palm were to build in unique features into webOS, very little would take advantage of it, as none of the apps on the platform would be natively written. There is zero incentive for anyone to write native apps since they can just easily port their work that was intended for another platform. Write once, deploy anywhere ensures a system of lowest-common-denominator products.
    Usually true.
    But less of a problem on phones compared to desktop computers. Phones are relatively restricted in their features and people can't plug-in random hardware. Modern smartphones come with a set of features that don't vary that much. It might have a compass or not and it might have a front-facing camera or not - but otherwise they all have touchscreens, GPS, accelerometers, etc...
    Distinguishing features are usually software based - like multi-tasking or ITunes syncing and come with the platform. Beyond that the most distinguishing "feature" is the size of the app market and whether certain widely popular apps are available.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    iPhone apps are so good because they were written specifically for the iPhone's screen, processor, ram, UI, and overall experience. They feel at home on the iPhone because they are at home on the iPhone. KIRFing up a product as close in hardware to the iPhone as you can get, does not ensure a native experience when an app is ported.
    Iphone apps are ahead not because of particular native features - but because the market is so big and longer established.
    Do the angry birds in Iphone fly better somehow compared to on webos - I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    HP has to downplay the whole, "Port your iPhone apps quick and easy!" plan, and emphasize why it is important to write natively for webOS. If they can't do that, no one will ever see the point of getting something other than an iPhone, since those are the apps they will be running anyway.
    H/Pam has no choice. Coming in after Apple and Android and having a small market share they have no alternative but to make it easy to port apps.

    Devs will produce first for the market that promises to make the the most money. Currently that's Iphone followed by Android.
    If they then can port easily it can be worthwhile to bring the app out on a market with smallish sale numbers because it only cost a few hours.

    Devs will only start to target Webos when the market is big enough. But customers want apps for their devices and so we get to the chicken and egg problem of devs going where customers are and customers buying phones they can get the cool apps for.

    For now convincing the big app publishers that adding webos to IOS and Android as target platforms because it's easy and quick to port makes a lot of sense. That's the only way to get a big number of apps on the platform ASAP.
    And that's the way to get more customers. Otherwise it will tend to go like this: "totally like the UI, multi-tasking is great, notifications are the best, but as long as I can't get my fav apps - sorry - can't get a webos phone".

    It doesn't matter what distinguishing features webos gets - devs will only make webos a primary target *after* the market is big enough to make that worthwhile. Unless Apple ****es devs off so much that they start to boycott the IOS platform (and even then Android is the next target platform).
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  9. rkguy's Avatar
    Posts
    803 Posts
    Global Posts
    816 Global Posts
    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    Good for them, really. Gotta love competition. Microsoft certainly seem to have executed their release of a new OS better than Palm did - obviously with significantly better resources, its not too much of a surprise.

    A competition for cash may sound like a good idea to grow the developer community but nothing beats simply paying out cash for developers/studios to create a version of a major app for your OS, ala Microsoft. Palm and HP should take note from this. Time to get off your rear end HP. I can't say I used it all the time on my old iPhone but jeez can WebOS get a version of UrbanSpoon already.
    Thank you. I've said this in other threads before. $1,000,000 to develop 10 competitive apps is $100,000 an app. That is enought to at least get companies to port existing code-base since it only takes a few days, right? riiiight?
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  10. aapold's Avatar
    Posts
    292 Posts
    Global Posts
    834 Global Posts
    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    In what ways do you think the ZuneHD is lightyears ahead of Music Player (Remix) 2.0? I'm the developer of this app and would be interested in hearing what specific features are lightyears ahead of my app. I've seen a few videos showing off the ZuneHD and I don't see anything that I would consider to be lightyears ahead. In fact, I think the opposite is true concerning some of the features in my app that the ZuneHD or frankly any other mobile music app can't touch. The only ZuneHD feature that stands out is the History list, but I'm planning a similar feature in my app. And the animations in the interface are nice.

    So let me know which features in the ZuneHD you were thinking about.
    I'm sorry I misspoke there. Remix is light years ahead of the native player.

    I do like the Zune HD player but its probably more in terms of familiarity, and its where i have all my (rented) music, and I like the feature where it constructs playlists based on associations of what I like, but none of these are features of the player itself.

    I do like remix a lot, especially like the lyrics feature which the Zune player doesn't even have. In terms of the player itself I really do the animated screen-saver like thing which plays which incorporates the album art, the title, album, artist and random pictures of the artist in a kind of scrolling display.

    I apologize for stating that incorrectly above.
  11. aapold's Avatar
    Posts
    292 Posts
    Global Posts
    834 Global Posts
    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Those 180 apps are ZuneHD apps. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Windows Phone 7 apps will run on ZuneHD. Well, at least not all of them.

    There is a separate section with Zune HD apps, of which there are 30.

    Unless (and this might be the case) there is a category of Zune HD apps which are meant for Phone 7 and not the Zune HD but accessed only through the zune marketplace, implying there is a separate marketplace for other phone 7 apps, but somehow I think microsoft wouldn't fragment their own marketplace right off the bat like that.
  12.    #32  
    Oh weird.

    Regardless, the phones aren't out yet hahah...so i wouldn't expect many apps to be availible.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions